Andrew,
The secret is to COPY the link, then paste it directly into google and opt for a translation. This can be a PITA to do without actually activating the link directly, which as you have found out takes you straight to the Russian version.
ttp://www.electroclub.info/article/capacitors1.htm
To make it easier to copy I have pasted the link above with the h before the ttp missing, thus rendering it as plain text.
Hope this works for you
The secret is to COPY the link, then paste it directly into google and opt for a translation. This can be a PITA to do without actually activating the link directly, which as you have found out takes you straight to the Russian version.
ttp://www.electroclub.info/article/capacitors1.htm
To make it easier to copy I have pasted the link above with the h before the ttp missing, thus rendering it as plain text.
Hope this works for you
I have recently changed output caps from K75-10, which have a nice midrange, especially for vocals, to K73-16. The K75 are overall dark and needed bypassing with FT-3 and Vishay 1837 to get some transparency and life back and even then they just didn't have dynamics or life. Everytime I listened to music I was straining to hear what I knew was there but was muffled with the K75.
So based on this thread I bought some K72-16 2.2uf as input caps to my tripath and WOW! It feels strange going from those huge handgranade k75 down to cigarette butt sized k73, and it is so much better. Everything about it is better. From a tight tight bass to crystal clear highs that have such sharp attack and definition and transparency but are not harsh in any way. I am really stunned by these capacitors.
I played around adding FT-3, K72, SSG, vishay 1837 to see if there was any detail at all that was being obscured by these capacitors and for once even the teflons cant clean anything up. Its like a janitor going into a perfectly clean room; they just stand around with nothing to do.
So to the skeptics, please don't try them and drive the prices up until I have bought a lifetime supply of these.
Also, it sounds phenomenal in my system as input caps. How will it sound in your system? No idea. If you try it and don't like it, it will not negate my experience, so just say you dont like it but don't say we who do like it are wrong. For the price of these capacitors it just does not make sense not to try them.
So based on this thread I bought some K72-16 2.2uf as input caps to my tripath and WOW! It feels strange going from those huge handgranade k75 down to cigarette butt sized k73, and it is so much better. Everything about it is better. From a tight tight bass to crystal clear highs that have such sharp attack and definition and transparency but are not harsh in any way. I am really stunned by these capacitors.
I played around adding FT-3, K72, SSG, vishay 1837 to see if there was any detail at all that was being obscured by these capacitors and for once even the teflons cant clean anything up. Its like a janitor going into a perfectly clean room; they just stand around with nothing to do.
So to the skeptics, please don't try them and drive the prices up until I have bought a lifetime supply of these.
Also, it sounds phenomenal in my system as input caps. How will it sound in your system? No idea. If you try it and don't like it, it will not negate my experience, so just say you dont like it but don't say we who do like it are wrong. For the price of these capacitors it just does not make sense not to try them.
PETP capacitors are even better than PIO from the United Kingdom.
Bought my box of K73-15B's (0.022uF) at least 10 years ago now and didn't realize what kind of gold I had in my hands until a pair were put into a TDA1543 DAC I built 2 years ago. I feel that 0.022uF is a bit small for the coupling role that they are doing at the moment.
I won't be selling any of them unless I begin to build TDA1543 DAC's.
They will be going into another TDA1543 and even probably into my tube amplifier to replace the super duper PIO caps from the UK.
They sound INCREDIBLY 3 dimensional and transparent when put to task in a TDA1541 DAC.
You can safely say that I was blown away too.
Bought my box of K73-15B's (0.022uF) at least 10 years ago now and didn't realize what kind of gold I had in my hands until a pair were put into a TDA1543 DAC I built 2 years ago. I feel that 0.022uF is a bit small for the coupling role that they are doing at the moment.
I won't be selling any of them unless I begin to build TDA1543 DAC's.
They will be going into another TDA1543 and even probably into my tube amplifier to replace the super duper PIO caps from the UK.
They sound INCREDIBLY 3 dimensional and transparent when put to task in a TDA1541 DAC.
You can safely say that I was blown away too.
Last edited:
pelopidas & freax,
two more happy bunnies.
You know what I really like about international sites, it shows that far from being different they show how similar we all are. Race, creed, colour - completely irrelevant.
What this thread has shown clearly is that there are those who check out reality and post on what they actually found and those that spout theory - maybe reality frightens them.
Sadly a lot of the K73-16 values have disappeared from Ebay. I'm waiting on a reply about some 3uF/250V on V/E. I can make the value I need using a K73-16 combo but would prefer to use just the one cap.
Speaker doctor - I have used the much under rated ERSE caps in a few mods and I don't believe some of the b/s I have read on supposedly authoratively well known cap trials. They are very good caps but simply no comparison with the K73s'.
I have never bought into the bypass theory, what I can say is that there is no benefit what so ever in bypassing these, as others have said they express fully what is there in the signal.
Here's a suggestion - Andrew has lead the way offering one particular value to another poster. As it is/was hard not to buy lots even though only 2 or 4 caps are needed, how about those who rock on these caps setting up a swap or sell thread. Very often I have had to buy 10-20 caps - I will never need to use as many of these - why leave them sitting in a stash box when we can put a smile on the faces of many - just a thought.
two more happy bunnies
.You know what I really like about international sites, it shows that far from being different they show how similar we all are. Race, creed, colour - completely irrelevant.
What this thread has shown clearly is that there are those who check out reality and post on what they actually found and those that spout theory - maybe reality frightens them.
Sadly a lot of the K73-16 values have disappeared from Ebay. I'm waiting on a reply about some 3uF/250V on V/E. I can make the value I need using a K73-16 combo but would prefer to use just the one cap.
Speaker doctor - I have used the much under rated ERSE caps in a few mods and I don't believe some of the b/s I have read on supposedly authoratively well known cap trials. They are very good caps but simply no comparison with the K73s'.
I have never bought into the bypass theory, what I can say is that there is no benefit what so ever in bypassing these, as others have said they express fully what is there in the signal.
Here's a suggestion - Andrew has lead the way offering one particular value to another poster. As it is/was hard not to buy lots even though only 2 or 4 caps are needed, how about those who rock on these caps setting up a swap or sell thread. Very often I have had to buy 10-20 caps - I will never need to use as many of these - why leave them sitting in a stash box when we can put a smile on the faces of many - just a thought.
I didnt tried K73, yet, but i use Siemens MKL, similar by the construction on passive xovers.
In components and on xovers i mainly use Jantzen Supreme 800V bypassed by 0,1uf Mundorf SIO 1000V, excellent result.
I tested combo, Siemens MKL, same Mundorf SIO 0,1uf and Vishay 1837 0,01uf on the bending wave transducer midtweeter, ribbon electrostat supertweeter, dynamic 25mm poly dome, against Russian K-42 and Mundorf Supreme instead Siemens MKL of the same values.
Sonic result or caps sound character, was very similar no matter the driver technology of three very different drivers.
MKL without Vishay and Mundorf SIO was bit nasal against very neutral sounding Jantzen Supreme.
K-42, velvet sounding, wiped off some of the microdetails, MKL was opposite. Almost underlining microdetails, Jantzen Supreme microdetails were balanced and all present.
All of three are able to present immense depth-means, more then good stereo ability. Most open and airy sounded was MKL, listeners didnt knew for the test and of all three MKL gets "most likable presentation", listeners said-sparkling highs.
Adding Vishay 1837 "civilised" sound of all three to the certain, good, level. That s 1837 do best. Adding nothing, filtering nothing.
MKL slight harshness became lesser, other two-bit less "nervous" highs,better control..
We all know the prices of the bigger Mundorf SIO "cans" and what are they capable of.
If i am an Italian, SIO sound capability deserves full, Mamma mia, period.
My budget thinking wanted from the start to achieve "no expensive cans" detour- good sonic result and i hoped for even better result with the wise tested combo, equipped with the little Mundorf SIO(burnt in).
I used some big SIO cans in the past.
MKL-Vishay-SIO combo, is cost friendly and it has second to none sound abilities. From the "original" SIO sound differs like the taste of the green pepers differs from the taste of the red peppers.
Absolutely no slight harshness remained, all sonic"goodies" of the good "poly" are "underlined".
Jantzen Supremes are not worse with the same combo of caps, they are sonically and musical correct, with the moderate less sparkling highs, their sound is still more like SIO the Supreme, if little SIO is added.
Im not wondering at all, what the result could be with the more expensive and bit more harsh sounded Supreme models, Gold and Silver(look the caps test on Hubmlehomemade hifi).
Those two are too expensive for the bypassing with the small SIO and i assume, that Siemens MKL with its "sparkling highs", even without SIO on MKL, is theirs very strong competitor, if you dont need 800V can.
But then, here is this nice possibility of the SIO addition on unexpensive MKLs.
Second to none sonic result.
K42 PIO didnt got to the final of the test, masking few microdetails isnt plus.
In components and on xovers i mainly use Jantzen Supreme 800V bypassed by 0,1uf Mundorf SIO 1000V, excellent result.
I tested combo, Siemens MKL, same Mundorf SIO 0,1uf and Vishay 1837 0,01uf on the bending wave transducer midtweeter, ribbon electrostat supertweeter, dynamic 25mm poly dome, against Russian K-42 and Mundorf Supreme instead Siemens MKL of the same values.
Sonic result or caps sound character, was very similar no matter the driver technology of three very different drivers.
MKL without Vishay and Mundorf SIO was bit nasal against very neutral sounding Jantzen Supreme.
K-42, velvet sounding, wiped off some of the microdetails, MKL was opposite. Almost underlining microdetails, Jantzen Supreme microdetails were balanced and all present.
All of three are able to present immense depth-means, more then good stereo ability. Most open and airy sounded was MKL, listeners didnt knew for the test and of all three MKL gets "most likable presentation", listeners said-sparkling highs.
Adding Vishay 1837 "civilised" sound of all three to the certain, good, level. That s 1837 do best. Adding nothing, filtering nothing.
MKL slight harshness became lesser, other two-bit less "nervous" highs,better control..
We all know the prices of the bigger Mundorf SIO "cans" and what are they capable of.
If i am an Italian, SIO sound capability deserves full, Mamma mia, period.
My budget thinking wanted from the start to achieve "no expensive cans" detour- good sonic result and i hoped for even better result with the wise tested combo, equipped with the little Mundorf SIO(burnt in).
I used some big SIO cans in the past.
MKL-Vishay-SIO combo, is cost friendly and it has second to none sound abilities. From the "original" SIO sound differs like the taste of the green pepers differs from the taste of the red peppers.
Absolutely no slight harshness remained, all sonic"goodies" of the good "poly" are "underlined".
Jantzen Supremes are not worse with the same combo of caps, they are sonically and musical correct, with the moderate less sparkling highs, their sound is still more like SIO the Supreme, if little SIO is added.
Im not wondering at all, what the result could be with the more expensive and bit more harsh sounded Supreme models, Gold and Silver(look the caps test on Hubmlehomemade hifi).
Those two are too expensive for the bypassing with the small SIO and i assume, that Siemens MKL with its "sparkling highs", even without SIO on MKL, is theirs very strong competitor, if you dont need 800V can.
But then, here is this nice possibility of the SIO addition on unexpensive MKLs.
Second to none sonic result.
K42 PIO didnt got to the final of the test, masking few microdetails isnt plus.
Not a direct answer to your question, since the values (and location) of the K73-16 caps that I use are different from the MKT1822. Here's a pic of a board where I use both, for different functions - K73-16 for input coupling, and MKT1822 as snubber for PSU bridge rectifier:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/chip-amps/184165-miniref-schematic-pcb-layout-15.html#post4093684
This is the latest MiniRef V1.04 board - a composite amplifier with a chipamp-based transconductance output stage, nested within an outer voltage-series feedback loop of a small-signal opamp.
Paste this link in google and translate. It's the complete article i referenced in a previous post which includes the measurement component. The microphonics results and conclusions on the role of dielectrics makes interesting reading.
Çâó÷àíèå êîíäåíñàòîðîâ â ôèëüòðàõ ÀÑ
Real scientific measurements rather than manufacturers' sales spin puts a slightly different perspective on the importance of certain parameters on the effect of capacitor performance.
Nice info, thanks!
An easy to read translated version can be found here -> Google Translate
Mach1,
many thanks for the Russian test report, so now we have the measuring and blind listening tests to confirm what so many of us knew from practice.
The final comments about the exotic b/s caps was hilarious and so true.
Freax, when I first dipped my toes into the hi-fi pool I knew nothing about anything and like a lot of others on a particular forum we trusted the 'wisdom' of someone who had worked in the world of audio all his life. Virtually all of us rejected (at some expense) his recs.
We all loaded up on the old Audionote PIOs which thankfully did'nt cost an arm and a leg. Nearly everyone rejected these but still those who like 'an old fashioned sound' were rec. the Russian PIOs and Teflons. Some laid out horrendous sums on the VH teflons.
There is a member who commercially builds speakers and has a friend that commercially builds amps - he tried all the super duper caps but still preferred the K73-16s.
What I can't understand is why those Russian engineers that designed these caps don't start up production again. Of course they would be up against the audio press in the UK and USA which would undoubtedly heap negative comments on them, just as they did with the superbly engineered Japanese D/D superdecks - esta la vida.
many thanks for the Russian test report, so now we have the measuring and blind listening tests to confirm what so many of us knew from practice.
The final comments about the exotic b/s caps was hilarious and so true.
Freax, when I first dipped my toes into the hi-fi pool I knew nothing about anything and like a lot of others on a particular forum we trusted the 'wisdom' of someone who had worked in the world of audio all his life. Virtually all of us rejected (at some expense) his recs.
We all loaded up on the old Audionote PIOs which thankfully did'nt cost an arm and a leg. Nearly everyone rejected these but still those who like 'an old fashioned sound' were rec. the Russian PIOs and Teflons. Some laid out horrendous sums on the VH teflons.
There is a member who commercially builds speakers and has a friend that commercially builds amps - he tried all the super duper caps but still preferred the K73-16s.
What I can't understand is why those Russian engineers that designed these caps don't start up production again. Of course they would be up against the audio press in the UK and USA which would undoubtedly heap negative comments on them, just as they did with the superbly engineered Japanese D/D superdecks - esta la vida.
I think people are still unbelieving as to how well these caps sound.
These are without a doubt the best I've ever heard bar none, they put every other capacitor in its place, behind it.
And I paid $20 for a box of 50 of them. Not bad for a cap made and designed behind the iron curtain in the 80s.
If you do buy them then buy big and buy once because you'll never want to toss them out. (And buy multiple values)
Once these are gone I doubt they'll ever be back.
These are without a doubt the best I've ever heard bar none, they put every other capacitor in its place, behind it.
And I paid $20 for a box of 50 of them. Not bad for a cap made and designed behind the iron curtain in the 80s.
If you do buy them then buy big and buy once because you'll never want to toss them out. (And buy multiple values)
Once these are gone I doubt they'll ever be back.
Last edited:
I have some gale gs401's I am refurbing. The crossovers use 34uf for the MF a 7uf cross cap and a 6 and 4uf for the tweeters.
I hear a lot good said for the mundorf supremes in crossovers but at those values the cost is very high.
I am therefore thinking of using the k73-16's but with one mundorf supreme in each paralled to make up the values. The smaller of each to be a supreme.
Any experience of doing similar with the K73-16. I see there are many fans of this cap but no detailed comparisons in the various shootouts?
Also, do folks prefer the supremes alone or can a small bypass improve them further?
The design of the Gales makes cap rolling very difficult after re-assembly.
thanks
I hear a lot good said for the mundorf supremes in crossovers but at those values the cost is very high.
I am therefore thinking of using the k73-16's but with one mundorf supreme in each paralled to make up the values. The smaller of each to be a supreme.
Any experience of doing similar with the K73-16. I see there are many fans of this cap but no detailed comparisons in the various shootouts?
Also, do folks prefer the supremes alone or can a small bypass improve them further?
The design of the Gales makes cap rolling very difficult after re-assembly.
thanks
- Status
- Not open for further replies.