I've been building systems for over 15 years. Bob "schaef" is right on track with my thinking. Give us some more details on what you already have and how much you would like to spend. Mail us (Bob and I) your email. Newegg is the only place I use for PC stuff and we can email you a configuration and start with that. A computer is soooo much like a car, I race cars myself and know it's more of a well balanced system that is going to perform better. Kinda like putting honda tires on a Corvette, just dosn't make sense.
Adam
Adam
For the record, the Pentium M requires either a specialized motherboard or an adapter. Also, good luck getting the dual-core variant.
The advantages of the setup above:
1. Speed. It's got TWO powerful processors, two gigabytes of high-speed dual-channel RAM, and a Serial ATA hard drive. This will beat the snot out of pretty much anything under 1500$ from a major brand, for what you want to do. (A 60$ upgrade to the X800GTO would improve gaming performance, but the 6600 included is still far better than anything found in a common desktop computer.)
2. Quality. This computer uses an ASUS motherboard, an Antec power supply (the SmartPower 450 watt power supply included with the Antec Sonata II is one of the best around), and memory rated between four and five stars wherever you look.
3. Upgradeability. This computer's got room for LOTS more storage, an additional PCI card, and 2 PCI Express slots.
Omitting the DVD burner would'nt be a problem, so long as you have a fast CD burner handy.
The advantages of the setup above:
1. Speed. It's got TWO powerful processors, two gigabytes of high-speed dual-channel RAM, and a Serial ATA hard drive. This will beat the snot out of pretty much anything under 1500$ from a major brand, for what you want to do. (A 60$ upgrade to the X800GTO would improve gaming performance, but the 6600 included is still far better than anything found in a common desktop computer.)
2. Quality. This computer uses an ASUS motherboard, an Antec power supply (the SmartPower 450 watt power supply included with the Antec Sonata II is one of the best around), and memory rated between four and five stars wherever you look.
3. Upgradeability. This computer's got room for LOTS more storage, an additional PCI card, and 2 PCI Express slots.
Omitting the DVD burner would'nt be a problem, so long as you have a fast CD burner handy.
It sounds to me like you might not need the absurd amounts of power provided by the system above. (It's overkill for almost anything than an average person might be doing.)
Budget system:
AMD Sempron 3100+ processor (essentially an AMD64 without 64 bit support; that said, you won't be using it any time soon, anyway.) 90$
Chaintech VNF3-250 motherboard. 50$.
1GB G.Skill DDR400. 80$.
ATI Radeon 9250. 40$.
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 hard drive, 100$.
Fortron Source 400w power supply. 30$.
Case: Get one curbside, or gut an old PC.
CD burner/DVD player combo drive: 20$ at Geeks.com. (Everything else is from NewEgg.)
Total cost:
410$.
It's still a good deal more powerful than most desktop PCs with processors that, although technically faster (such as the 3500+), are stuck with low-speed memory and slow hard drives.
Budget system:
AMD Sempron 3100+ processor (essentially an AMD64 without 64 bit support; that said, you won't be using it any time soon, anyway.) 90$
Chaintech VNF3-250 motherboard. 50$.
1GB G.Skill DDR400. 80$.
ATI Radeon 9250. 40$.
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 hard drive, 100$.
Fortron Source 400w power supply. 30$.
Case: Get one curbside, or gut an old PC.
CD burner/DVD player combo drive: 20$ at Geeks.com. (Everything else is from NewEgg.)
Total cost:
410$.
It's still a good deal more powerful than most desktop PCs with processors that, although technically faster (such as the 3500+), are stuck with low-speed memory and slow hard drives.
Spasticteapot said:
That's more in line with what I would recommend. I won't argue that your original machine you quoted is powerful. It certainly is, but its way more powerful than he will need.
Now, one correction to your post, the Sempron64 does actually have 64bit capability, its just not full 64 bit. I'm not exactly sure where things are different, but all the CPU id programs state it has 64 bit capability.
Also, looking a little bit, I think I might have him step up to the NL35 variant of the drives, as they tend to offer 16meg cache. I'm also assuming you're looking at the SATA150 drives. I have a 7200.7 SATA150 drive, and its amazing fast for me, but I'm not demanding.
I will still recommend that he add in getting XP or 2000 as well. He's going to run into problems with 98SE on this hardware, particularly in the support arena. Oh, and if XP, get the pro version as opposed to home, not sure of the differences between pro and home, but I do know there's enough that you want pro not home. Personally I run 2000 at home and don't have any problems.
Again, knowing how much he wants to spend, will be a big help, we can then tell him where he can make improvements that will make a difference. Going faster on the processor, at this level, won't have as much of an affect as getting more memory or a better OS.
A thought just occurred to me, I believe to use the hardwre recommended, he HAS to upgrade to 2000 or XP, as I don't believe there are any SATA drivers for 98SE. (And if there are, don't tell him, we'll use it as an excuse to force him to upgrade!!)
Bob
Thanks for the help.
Budget? I've never seen a DIY Project equate to the budget
you're aiming for.
Lets say $700.00 for starters. I'm going to take my time with this. Buying one piece at a time.
So, XP it is. I definitely want a desktop case. Do they sell rack mountable empty cases? It will save me the trouble of modifying
a standard version. This computer will go in an ATA Flight case
seeing, that this will be for audio only purposes.
I'm not going to stress too much on a burner, for, I have an
Memorex CDR Drive sitting in a box. It came bundled with Nero 6
as well.
Spasticteapot
From what you recomended, I would imagine its fine. I would if
anything, go for a stronger powersupply. If you feel anything else
could improve the functionality of this computer, please let me
know.
Budget? I've never seen a DIY Project equate to the budget
you're aiming for.
Lets say $700.00 for starters. I'm going to take my time with this. Buying one piece at a time.
So, XP it is. I definitely want a desktop case. Do they sell rack mountable empty cases? It will save me the trouble of modifying
a standard version. This computer will go in an ATA Flight case
seeing, that this will be for audio only purposes.
I'm not going to stress too much on a burner, for, I have an
Memorex CDR Drive sitting in a box. It came bundled with Nero 6
as well.
Spasticteapot
From what you recomended, I would imagine its fine. I would if
anything, go for a stronger powersupply. If you feel anything else
could improve the functionality of this computer, please let me
know.
OMNIFEX said:Thanks for the help.
Budget? I've never seen a DIY Project equate to the budget
you're aiming for.
Lets say $700.00 for starters. I'm going to take my time with this. Buying one piece at a time.
So, XP it is. I definitely want a desktop case. Do they sell rack mountable empty cases? It will save me the trouble of modifying
a standard version. This computer will go in an ATA Flight case
seeing, that this will be for audio only purposes.
I'm not going to stress too much on a burner, for, I have an
Memorex CDR Drive sitting in a box. It came bundled with Nero 6
as well.
Spasticteapot
From what you recomended, I would imagine its fine. I would if
anything, go for a stronger powersupply. If you feel anything else
could improve the functionality of this computer, please let me
know.
The above setup is constructed of well-rated parts. The Fortron Source PSU is actually very well rated; Fortron makes PSUs for servers, and they're generally very good. This one should handle this system with ease.
Windows XP or 2000 are the only way to go. I reccomend win2K, but WinXP home is cheaper. (I, however, would get my copy through less-than-legal means, making the cost irrelavant.) Linux is also an option, if you happen to be familar with Unix commands.
1024mb of RAM should be enough, I'd guess, but adding a second module (+80$) would'nt hurt. However, Windows does not support more than 2GB very well, so that's something of a maximum. Remember, RAM is easy to upgrade, so if it's running a little sluggishly, it's easy to add more later.
Rackmount cases can be purchased, but they're not cheap. The best deal I found was on a rather low-end 4U rackmount case; at about 100$, it would increase the cost of your system by 25%.
http://www.directron.com/30at.html
Also, factor in the price of a monitor. A 19" CRT will run you about 80$ if you buy locally; people often are rather anxious to ditch their old monitor when they upgrade to an LCD. Alternately, a 17" LCD can be had for about 180$.
The VNF3-250 motherboard only supports SATA-150. However, SATA-II would likely be overkill, as would a 16mb cache drive. To fully see the benifit of the SATA-II interface, you really need a 10k RPM drive like the Western Digital Raptor line, with a pricetag of about 375$.
I tend to stay away from the "buget" cpu's. Some of the sempron 64's only have 128 cache some have 256. I would recomend this CPU.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103424
And this mother board. Only 2 pci slots, but built on video?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130534
Or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813130521
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103424
And this mother board. Only 2 pci slots, but built on video?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130534
Or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813130521
Banned
Joined 2002
Banned
Joined 2002
jleaman said:
My point exactly. A dualie 1.25 G4 is actually not that far off.
Remember, however, that you would also need:
1. Upgraded RAM. Assuming the configuration I posted above, it's still 500$ including two gigabytes of DDR. Add about 120$ on to the pricetag for RAM; a 1,000$ box would'nt likely have more than 512mb included.
2. Soundcards. Remarkably few of them exist, from what I've seen. Generally, they're high-end firewire solutions (such as those made by MOTU), or just plain expensive. Chances are, the ones he owns are'nt Mac compatible; two M-audio 5.1 soundcards (which are'nt really that amazing for sound input) would be an additional 160$.
3. OS. That macintosh might have OSX 10.2, if not 10.1. He'd likely have to pay the 120$ or so to upgrade to Tiger to get full functionality.
So, yes, he'd be paying more. Macintoshes are wonderful machines, but they're expensive. The same applies to, say, Porsche over Mazda; what did you expect?
(For the record, I prefer Mac to PC. However, they're too bloody expensive for many people, including myself. Stop being such a fanboy, and admit that some people can't afford that kind of setup.)
Actually, I just found a 1,000$ mac. Admittedly, a 1ghz PowerBook G4 is only 1200$ at SmallDog Electronics, but the price of good USB audio gear is kind of a problem in its own right.
http://www.powermax.com/cgi-global/generate_css_temp.cgi?p=c-u59175
969$ for a dual-867mhz G4 box. Add another 120$ for RAM, and that's roughly 1090$. And it's running 10.2, so you'll have to pay if you want to upgrade to OSX 10.4.
And the Sempron 3100+ can beat the @#$#$ out of a dualie 1.25ghz G4 box in quite a few areas.
http://www.powermax.com/cgi-global/generate_css_temp.cgi?p=c-u59175
969$ for a dual-867mhz G4 box. Add another 120$ for RAM, and that's roughly 1090$. And it's running 10.2, so you'll have to pay if you want to upgrade to OSX 10.4.
And the Sempron 3100+ can beat the @#$#$ out of a dualie 1.25ghz G4 box in quite a few areas.
Banned
Joined 2002
I am using this right now in a G4 powerbook 12" and loving it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Personally I've never been a fan of AMD,they seem to be less stable.
I've always had issues with them 'spontaniously crashing' when I used them.My friends all love them but always wonder why thier PC's lock up.
I'm all for Intel. (partial to some of thier Mo-bo's,and Net cards too..they make some good stuff!)
Never really been a fan of Mac's either.. They are decent simple machines,but they aren't (or atleast weren't,I dunno about the newer machines) upgradeable,and they cost 2x what a decent home-built PC costs,and your limited to OS's and software with a Mac. (again,i'm not sure about the newer Mac's,they might be capable of running other OS's/software now.)
I'd rather build my own PC for way less $ and upgrade as needed.
It's alot easier than it used to be.And there's more options.
Just avoid Compaq,HP,Packard-bell,etc. (proprietary crap makes me mad!)
My current contraption is an Intel PIII-800,on a Dell mo-bo (made by Intel,basically a slightly different SE440BX3 board.) 320MB ram,Viper V770 vid,and a SB Live! that I've modded,a net card,and wifi too.
Found a brand new 52x burner for $15 too
It does everything I need it to,and it's stable (even with Windoze!)
I've always had issues with them 'spontaniously crashing' when I used them.My friends all love them but always wonder why thier PC's lock up.
I'm all for Intel. (partial to some of thier Mo-bo's,and Net cards too..they make some good stuff!)
Never really been a fan of Mac's either.. They are decent simple machines,but they aren't (or atleast weren't,I dunno about the newer machines) upgradeable,and they cost 2x what a decent home-built PC costs,and your limited to OS's and software with a Mac. (again,i'm not sure about the newer Mac's,they might be capable of running other OS's/software now.)
I'd rather build my own PC for way less $ and upgrade as needed.
It's alot easier than it used to be.And there's more options.
Just avoid Compaq,HP,Packard-bell,etc. (proprietary crap makes me mad!)
My current contraption is an Intel PIII-800,on a Dell mo-bo (made by Intel,basically a slightly different SE440BX3 board.) 320MB ram,Viper V770 vid,and a SB Live! that I've modded,a net card,and wifi too.
Found a brand new 52x burner for $15 too
It does everything I need it to,and it's stable (even with Windoze!)
DigitalJunkie said:
It's all an issue of what's inside. My current laptop is an HP; that said, it's part of their "incredibly overpriced buisness laptop" line; it flopped because the comparably priced IBM had five hours of battery life instead of three and a half. (Of course, I paid 1/3 MSRP for a high-quality ultraportable laptop, so I can't complain.)
One of my friends has a Compaq, on my reccomendation. However, Compaq (can't speak for HP) has started using standardized, often good-quality parts; the motherboard in his PC (I checked before he bought it) is manufactured by Asus, and even includes (unused) SATA ports and an AGP slot!.
Although they were once good computers, Dells are best avoided. I would know; I still own one.
Also, AMD processors are a lot higher quality than they once were. Some of the older AMD processors could overheat easily; the same cannot be said for the more modern processors, such as the 90nm A64 line.
The problem with Compaq and HP - don't have much experience with other factory machines - is they load the OS with so much 'enhanced value' garbage the CPU spends more cycles on company business than yours. I still recall the initial disappointment upgrading from an old P2-366 Presario running a highly customized install of Gentoo Linux to a New AMD64-3000 Compaq notebook on XP Home. Other than drive intensive applications there wasn't much speed difference, not until I uninstalled all the junk.
Incidentally, the latter Carla-era machine eventually blew its motherboard twice due to a flaw which caused reboots mid-way through BIOS updates. You might figure the warranty depot would have replaced the first board with a rectified version, but you'ld figure wrong. The second time was out of warranty. In hindsight given the hassles, poor service and design flaws (including two high speed fans underneath which prevented using this laptop on a lap) I would prefered handing out that $1800 at random to strangers than flush it down the HP loo. I can't recommend avoiding HP/Compaq notebooks strongly enough.
BTW, the new 64-bit AMDs are killer CPUS. Dead stable and fast, great gaming platform.
Incidentally, the latter Carla-era machine eventually blew its motherboard twice due to a flaw which caused reboots mid-way through BIOS updates. You might figure the warranty depot would have replaced the first board with a rectified version, but you'ld figure wrong. The second time was out of warranty. In hindsight given the hassles, poor service and design flaws (including two high speed fans underneath which prevented using this laptop on a lap) I would prefered handing out that $1800 at random to strangers than flush it down the HP loo. I can't recommend avoiding HP/Compaq notebooks strongly enough.
BTW, the new 64-bit AMDs are killer CPUS. Dead stable and fast, great gaming platform.
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