eld said:
i've not listened to the other saxr but i know that they have a bright forward sound in stock version
the saxr45 is special because it's the only version that has a regulated power supply ( better output impedance of the PS)
the mods i ve done are :
-braided monowire power cord with pi filter at the end ( all the saxr have three pi filters set to different frequencies and Panasonic don't communicate the L value so we dont know what are they )
-replaced the main rectifiers with rurp860
-replaced the speakers wiring straight from the output inductors to the terminals
-replaced the 6x 1000uF behind the switching output mosfets with 6x100uf Blackgate , and put a big 12000uF Elna between the PSU and the main circuitry
-redesign of the PWM processor inputs ( TAS5036 if i remember) to have the same signals SD1 on the front end and surround ( biamplification )
-replaced the headphone opamp with AD8397
i was so happy with the result that i didnt modifiy the digital clock
jkeny said:
the mod that had the most effect was with the blackgates and elna
the only criteria i use to select caps are by listening by myself and also reading different audiophile forums ( the most renowned components are generally the best )
for example , try in a tweeter filter a MKT and then a MKP cap , you will be surprised !
Thanks rha61,
That's useful info - I am going to try some Black Gates in place of the Panasonic XE caps & see how they sound after a long burn-in! Was it the STD version you used?
I have some 10,000uF Elna caps (removed from Pioneer amp - not cerafine) I will try between the PS & the main board.
I just received my amp from the US today so I need to get a step-down trafo & give it some listeneing in stock form before I start mods but this thread is invaluable - Thanks all, especially eld & rha61 & all of the early contributors - I will be posting pics when I begin mods!
That's useful info - I am going to try some Black Gates in place of the Panasonic XE caps & see how they sound after a long burn-in! Was it the STD version you used?
I have some 10,000uF Elna caps (removed from Pioneer amp - not cerafine) I will try between the PS & the main board.
I just received my amp from the US today so I need to get a step-down trafo & give it some listeneing in stock form before I start mods but this thread is invaluable - Thanks all, especially eld & rha61 & all of the early contributors - I will be posting pics when I begin mods!
Yes gychang,
This amp can be hooked up through any spdif connection (or I2S if you want to do a bit of soldering)!
I just listened to this amp for a couple of hours and Wow, I'm impressed.
I had it hooked up to a cheap DVD player (40 euro) feeding spdif through cheap digital cable to amp connected to Rogers LS3/5a speakers (16 ohm impedance).
Now this was an open box purchase so I don't know how many hours burn-in this amp already had but I don't hear an over bright sound as some have reported (could be the impedance of the speakers taming the HF?). Instead I hear a very balanced sound with an even handedness to all freqs - no shout or harshness in the highs & tons of detail.
I played Diana Krall, Love Scenes CD, which I found to be sibilant on all my other amps but not on this one. The only fault I found was the piano lacked the last bit of harmonic richness (roundedness) to the sound.
I played Joni Mitchell, Blue CD, and her 3 octave voice can be grating in the high registers on other systems, but again not here.
Finally, I played Pink Floyd, Shine on you Crazy Diamond track form Echoes CD, and there is a guitar refrain that can be very screechy on other systems but again very even treatment here.
One thing I noticed immediately with the sound was the imaging - the speakers disappeared (these Rogers mini monitors are renowned for their imaging but I can safely say that this is the first time they disappeared)
Another unique feature of this amp is the vol control - in other amps that I have heard, when the vol is lowered the loudness at various freqs seems to vary, emphasising some freqs over others - not so with this amp.
So I guess I like it but I can see where some extra performance can be squeezed out of it, in the area of fine harmonic structure, sustain & decay!
I'll be tweaking soon but I think I'll give it a week first to get used to the sound & see if there is any burn-in to be had!
This amp can be hooked up through any spdif connection (or I2S if you want to do a bit of soldering)!
I just listened to this amp for a couple of hours and Wow, I'm impressed.
I had it hooked up to a cheap DVD player (40 euro) feeding spdif through cheap digital cable to amp connected to Rogers LS3/5a speakers (16 ohm impedance).
Now this was an open box purchase so I don't know how many hours burn-in this amp already had but I don't hear an over bright sound as some have reported (could be the impedance of the speakers taming the HF?). Instead I hear a very balanced sound with an even handedness to all freqs - no shout or harshness in the highs & tons of detail.
I played Diana Krall, Love Scenes CD, which I found to be sibilant on all my other amps but not on this one. The only fault I found was the piano lacked the last bit of harmonic richness (roundedness) to the sound.
I played Joni Mitchell, Blue CD, and her 3 octave voice can be grating in the high registers on other systems, but again not here.
Finally, I played Pink Floyd, Shine on you Crazy Diamond track form Echoes CD, and there is a guitar refrain that can be very screechy on other systems but again very even treatment here.
One thing I noticed immediately with the sound was the imaging - the speakers disappeared (these Rogers mini monitors are renowned for their imaging but I can safely say that this is the first time they disappeared)
Another unique feature of this amp is the vol control - in other amps that I have heard, when the vol is lowered the loudness at various freqs seems to vary, emphasising some freqs over others - not so with this amp.
So I guess I like it but I can see where some extra performance can be squeezed out of it, in the area of fine harmonic structure, sustain & decay!
I'll be tweaking soon but I think I'll give it a week first to get used to the sound & see if there is any burn-in to be had!
I have done some further listening with friends who have good ears & recording studio environment. We used music that we were familiar with (Herbie Hancock, River; John Martyn; Miles Davis) and ATC SCM11 studio speakers along with Dynaudio 1.3 speakers.
Using optical input (the optical plug connection to the back of the XR57 is not very good - slips out easily) and a Denon CD player (can't remember the model) the sound was over analytical & on the bright side. Reading up afterwards, this is the nature of these speakers - combined with the XR57 this was agreed as not a long term listen.
Connecting up the Dynaudios brought an immediate relaxing and a more balanced sound - piano gained a fuller sound with a more natural harmonic structure & decay. This was a longer term listen.
Ripping some CDs to MAC disk & replay (using ProTools) WAV files through a USB DAC box (Digidesign MBox 2) and a good coaxial digital interconnect to XR57, the sound cleaned up considerably & this became a very long term listen. The best sound so far.
This shows, I think, the synergistic aspect of matching these amps with suitable speakers (no more of an issue than analog amp matching, I feel). It also shows me the importance of the digital feed to these amps.
I'm a tweaker at heart so I want to get inside this amp and begin improving it - I feel it has been burnt-in before I got it, as I notice no change in sound with the hours of play it has had.
While I'm waiting for parts to arrive, I think I'll tackle some wiring. Two areas spring to mind - the wiring that carries the digital signal is currently the usual flat strip connection - I was thinking of replacing with shielded wiring. Is this a good idea? - any suggestions for good cable here?
The other area is the higher current wiring - signal to speaker posts & PS to output section - does this need to be shielded? I'm thinking of using solid core Ethernet cable? Good idea or not?
Using optical input (the optical plug connection to the back of the XR57 is not very good - slips out easily) and a Denon CD player (can't remember the model) the sound was over analytical & on the bright side. Reading up afterwards, this is the nature of these speakers - combined with the XR57 this was agreed as not a long term listen.
Connecting up the Dynaudios brought an immediate relaxing and a more balanced sound - piano gained a fuller sound with a more natural harmonic structure & decay. This was a longer term listen.
Ripping some CDs to MAC disk & replay (using ProTools) WAV files through a USB DAC box (Digidesign MBox 2) and a good coaxial digital interconnect to XR57, the sound cleaned up considerably & this became a very long term listen. The best sound so far.
This shows, I think, the synergistic aspect of matching these amps with suitable speakers (no more of an issue than analog amp matching, I feel). It also shows me the importance of the digital feed to these amps.
I'm a tweaker at heart so I want to get inside this amp and begin improving it - I feel it has been burnt-in before I got it, as I notice no change in sound with the hours of play it has had.
While I'm waiting for parts to arrive, I think I'll tackle some wiring. Two areas spring to mind - the wiring that carries the digital signal is currently the usual flat strip connection - I was thinking of replacing with shielded wiring. Is this a good idea? - any suggestions for good cable here?
The other area is the higher current wiring - signal to speaker posts & PS to output section - does this need to be shielded? I'm thinking of using solid core Ethernet cable? Good idea or not?
Hey all, a bit new to this thread, but not to the Pannys. I have had at one time, the XR25, XR45, XR50 and XR57. I only have the XR45 and the XR50, and just received another XR45 off ebay yesterday with a matching 5 cd player for, get this, $69. Both work perfectly.
Anyway, I started on the panny four years ago (all stock) and kept the XR45 and XR50. The XR25 sounded thin (most likely due to Power Supply) and had issues around keeping a digital TV signal. The XR45 still sounded best to me, even against the XR57. Sold everything off and kept the XR50 (upstairs TV and stereo) and XR45 (downstairs Home Theater)
Now I have since strayed away from the Pannys and all the whole digital Amp hype in favor of Tripath/IcePower/UCD amps, and now currently on the Class A bug (Aleph 60, Krell KSA-50 Clone, Zen amps)
Up until yesterday, when I received the second XR45. I have somehow forgotten how nice and clean it sounds on my Magnepans through Digital inputs.
I plan on playing with two XR45's biamping my magnepan MGIIIa, and may buy a Behringer Digital crossover (but its analog, not digital)
Anyway, I doubt it can best my Krell clone I built, but after a few mods from this thread...who knows...
Anyway, I started on the panny four years ago (all stock) and kept the XR45 and XR50. The XR25 sounded thin (most likely due to Power Supply) and had issues around keeping a digital TV signal. The XR45 still sounded best to me, even against the XR57. Sold everything off and kept the XR50 (upstairs TV and stereo) and XR45 (downstairs Home Theater)
Now I have since strayed away from the Pannys and all the whole digital Amp hype in favor of Tripath/IcePower/UCD amps, and now currently on the Class A bug (Aleph 60, Krell KSA-50 Clone, Zen amps)
Up until yesterday, when I received the second XR45. I have somehow forgotten how nice and clean it sounds on my Magnepans through Digital inputs.
I plan on playing with two XR45's biamping my magnepan MGIIIa, and may buy a Behringer Digital crossover (but its analog, not digital)
Anyway, I doubt it can best my Krell clone I built, but after a few mods from this thread...who knows...
Hi John65b,
Great price on the XR45 + other kit - I don't know how I missed that ( I have a ebay saved search for XR*) - I would have been bidding against you on this LOL!
Glad you came here - have a go on some of the mods here & let us know your findings - as you've gathered, I started the thread a couple of weeks ago but only got the amp a few days ago so I'm about to start mods.
eld, rha61 & others have been contributing their findings here, for which I'm very grateful & I hope to be able to contribute some of my findings soon!
Edit: BTW One thing I meant to ask - does anyone have a schematic for the SA-XR700? I opened up the XR57 box & noticed the PS board has some unfilled component areas on the pcb marked as "XR700 only" & I wondered if they improved the PS?
Great price on the XR45 + other kit - I don't know how I missed that ( I have a ebay saved search for XR*) - I would have been bidding against you on this LOL!
Glad you came here - have a go on some of the mods here & let us know your findings - as you've gathered, I started the thread a couple of weeks ago but only got the amp a few days ago so I'm about to start mods.
eld, rha61 & others have been contributing their findings here, for which I'm very grateful & I hope to be able to contribute some of my findings soon!
Edit: BTW One thing I meant to ask - does anyone have a schematic for the SA-XR700? I opened up the XR57 box & noticed the PS board has some unfilled component areas on the pcb marked as "XR700 only" & I wondered if they improved the PS?
Ah class A still beats out the new kids on the block, class D, eh! I'm going to build a zero feedback Class A amp ala Susan Parker which I believe will easily beat the Panny! But still interested in optimising this digital amp
I would love to know how you found this on ebay as I would be very interested in picking up XR45 at this price purely for the PS board which I would use in the XR57 to only power the output stage. I have a a saved search that looks for sa-xr* and saxr* but I got no match.
I recently found a guy on Audiogon selling a broken XR45 for $35 but I figured the PS was not working - no sound on any channel!
I would love to know how you found this on ebay as I would be very interested in picking up XR45 at this price purely for the PS board which I would use in the XR57 to only power the output stage. I have a a saved search that looks for sa-xr* and saxr* but I got no match.
I recently found a guy on Audiogon selling a broken XR45 for $35 but I figured the PS was not working - no sound on any channel!
Here:
Ebay Link
I bet the power supply works on that Audiogon XR45.
I saw that too, and then saw the one on ebay...
The Krell boards are still around here (search Pinkmouse KSA-50) and was a somewhat easy build...It took me a couple weeks to find a little error of mine, but all works perfect now. For the entire build, maybe $250? Monster sinks gets pretty hot tho...pic attached with my krell to the left, UCD400 on bottom (Hexateq chassis) and other UCD400 on top, and my Audio Note M7 Tube Pre Clone in the middle...UCD400 on top is for sale btw...
...
Lots detail and "room" in the music. I notice when the panny is pushed, the music tends to get blended, whereas the krell keeps the separation and focus...
Next is the Aikido Tube Pre, Jfet BOZ Pre, the Aleph 60, and last is the Zen V5
Ebay Link
I bet the power supply works on that Audiogon XR45.
I saw that too, and then saw the one on ebay...
The Krell boards are still around here (search Pinkmouse KSA-50) and was a somewhat easy build...It took me a couple weeks to find a little error of mine, but all works perfect now. For the entire build, maybe $250? Monster sinks gets pretty hot tho...pic attached with my krell to the left, UCD400 on bottom (Hexateq chassis) and other UCD400 on top, and my Audio Note M7 Tube Pre Clone in the middle...UCD400 on top is for sale btw...
...
Lots detail and "room" in the music. I notice when the panny is pushed, the music tends to get blended, whereas the krell keeps the separation and focus...
Next is the Aikido Tube Pre, Jfet BOZ Pre, the Aleph 60, and last is the Zen V5
Attachments
Nice builds - Krell is way too big for me tho!
Ah! I need to expand my auto search to "Panasonic receiver"
Why do you think the other XR45 has a working PS? - with no channel giving sound it seems like a systemic problem - what else could it be that would affect all channels equally? I emailed the guy & he said the sound gradually faded over time - PS?
I've heard the Aikido pre - very good sound
Ah! I need to expand my auto search to "Panasonic receiver"
Why do you think the other XR45 has a working PS? - with no channel giving sound it seems like a systemic problem - what else could it be that would affect all channels equally? I emailed the guy & he said the sound gradually faded over time - PS?
I've heard the Aikido pre - very good sound
Just my guess....
I would think since the front panel lights up, the units overall SMPS is functioning, and if the unit was abused, the unit's fan would cool the and save the PS before the amp board would fail, no?
The Krell is big, but only two of those sinks are connected and sinking any heat. I plan on adding a few more output pairs to the unused sinks to increase power to 100 - 120 wpc from 75 wpc
I would think since the front panel lights up, the units overall SMPS is functioning, and if the unit was abused, the unit's fan would cool the and save the PS before the amp board would fail, no?
The Krell is big, but only two of those sinks are connected and sinking any heat. I plan on adding a few more output pairs to the unused sinks to increase power to 100 - 120 wpc from 75 wpc
i own both a tweaked xr45 and DIY UCD180 with modded input stage and high grade PSU
the 45 is very transparent but the UCD is an amazing amp , simply natural and the best i've heard at home( the caps in the psu are important specially with class D , i use the outstanding Epcos Sikorel for my UCD and the ground circuitry is built carefully )
the 45 is very transparent but the UCD is an amazing amp , simply natural and the best i've heard at home( the caps in the psu are important specially with class D , i use the outstanding Epcos Sikorel for my UCD and the ground circuitry is built carefully )
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