pelanj said:
Perhaps you're reading the wrong threads!
Honestly, can't people express their opinions on this forum?
I think the answer as to why is because the designer posts on here and people wish to thank and reward him for his participation, and advancement of their enjoyment. That's what it looks like.
Simon
Well,
You could just replace Patrick Bateman's comments on the Summa's here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1664000#post1664000
with my name, the NaO 2Ts, and switch the words classical with rock, and there you have it.
I'm a classical trained, but club aficionado.
I don't even like MP3's but these speakers make them awesome!
It hits 110dB no sweat.. any louder is great but most of the time the neighbours are complaining...
You could just replace Patrick Bateman's comments on the Summa's here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1664000#post1664000
with my name, the NaO 2Ts, and switch the words classical with rock, and there you have it.
I'm a classical trained, but club aficionado.
I don't even like MP3's but these speakers make them awesome!
It hits 110dB no sweat.. any louder is great but most of the time the neighbours are complaining...
SimontY said:
How is this thread called? "Orions sound great because dipole". I would assume, that here the benefits/disadvantages of dipoles and Orions in particular will be discussed.
I have nothing against Dr. Geddes or his work, I believe, he is kind of state of the art in a sense, but if that is discussed in related threads. During the last few weeks, all threads that interest me are full of Summa stuff - even when the thread topic is far from it.
If anybody wishes to express gratefulness to the designer, why not do it in the related threads?
Sorry to all for this rant, but I wanted to read something new about the Orions...
All things Summa
Funny how this is a DIY board, and all discussions re: speakers end up pro_Summa/Nathan/.. blah blah...
Gedlee seems to be on the cutting edge no doubt, but there are other perspectives and preferences... he seems to have hit the gold mine re: covert advertising here
I've pretty much moved on to other boards not dominated by waveguide-controlled directivity-why diy when you can own these sort of posts. One wonders why if one no longer does DIY, why post on a DIY board??? Hmmnnn.... some of these posts are beginning to read like a Julian Hirsch review in the old Stereo Review years......
This thread was about dipoles, not waveguides, and many were heavily criticised months ago in the waveguide threads for bringing up dipoles and OB's soo...
what's good for the goose...
John L.
Funny how this is a DIY board, and all discussions re: speakers end up pro_Summa/Nathan/.. blah blah...
Gedlee seems to be on the cutting edge no doubt, but there are other perspectives and preferences... he seems to have hit the gold mine re: covert advertising here
I've pretty much moved on to other boards not dominated by waveguide-controlled directivity-why diy when you can own these sort of posts. One wonders why if one no longer does DIY, why post on a DIY board??? Hmmnnn.... some of these posts are beginning to read like a Julian Hirsch review in the old Stereo Review years......
This thread was about dipoles, not waveguides, and many were heavily criticised months ago in the waveguide threads for bringing up dipoles and OB's soo...
what's good for the goose...
John L.
Sorry I missed all this. I told John that he would be attacked if he expressed his opinion here.
To my defense, why is it that a Summa fan always gets attacked every time they compare them to Orions? And to say that "all discussions re: speakers" are about waveguides, Summas etc. is absurd. I only go to a few topics at most. Just avoid those.
Last point - loudness is different than dynamics, but you have to be capable of loud to have good dynamics. I am studying this problem now in some detail, but its too early for quantified results. However there is a strong relationship between thermal capability and "linear" performance. Our past work has shown that normal views of nonlinear distortion aren't a major factor in loudspeakers (this is heresy I know, but its true). However, there are thermal effects that might explain some of this. Clearly a speaker that can go to 130 dB SPL without a problem is not experiencing much thermal issues at 90 dB SPL. At any rate I just wanted to be clear on the similarities and differences bewteen Loudness and dynamics.
To my defense, why is it that a Summa fan always gets attacked every time they compare them to Orions? And to say that "all discussions re: speakers" are about waveguides, Summas etc. is absurd. I only go to a few topics at most. Just avoid those.
Last point - loudness is different than dynamics, but you have to be capable of loud to have good dynamics. I am studying this problem now in some detail, but its too early for quantified results. However there is a strong relationship between thermal capability and "linear" performance. Our past work has shown that normal views of nonlinear distortion aren't a major factor in loudspeakers (this is heresy I know, but its true). However, there are thermal effects that might explain some of this. Clearly a speaker that can go to 130 dB SPL without a problem is not experiencing much thermal issues at 90 dB SPL. At any rate I just wanted to be clear on the similarities and differences bewteen Loudness and dynamics.
The OB trend is all the rage right now. Looking back 4-5 years ago the same that is being said for waveguides was being said about OB. It really rubbed people the wrong way when discussions turned to Orion talk. The orion's were the new trend setter that kicked off this fascination.
OB's have a great deal of intrigue to the common DIYer. Cabinet building is not everyones cup of tea so being able to just make a baffle and make it pretty sure sounds great.
Box coloration, yes, let's get rid of box coloration by just removing the box altogether? That sounds good and fine but can anyone show me some scientific proof behind cabinet coloration? I have never run across any tests proving that this is an audible artifact.
Is WG/Summa info sweeping this and certain sites, yes. I can see how it could be a little irritating. I can really say that I am excited about the Geddes designs as I have been involved in audio for quite a few years and have always wanted the best scientific speaker out there. This is the prime reason that I built the orion's in the first place is because of the documentation provided. Now, the Summa series takes the cake regarding scientific proof. Like I have said before, if I wouldn't have heard and Nathan and Summa then I probably would have a great deal of doubt with the claims.
OB's have a great deal of intrigue to the common DIYer. Cabinet building is not everyones cup of tea so being able to just make a baffle and make it pretty sure sounds great.
Box coloration, yes, let's get rid of box coloration by just removing the box altogether? That sounds good and fine but can anyone show me some scientific proof behind cabinet coloration? I have never run across any tests proving that this is an audible artifact.
Is WG/Summa info sweeping this and certain sites, yes. I can see how it could be a little irritating. I can really say that I am excited about the Geddes designs as I have been involved in audio for quite a few years and have always wanted the best scientific speaker out there. This is the prime reason that I built the orion's in the first place is because of the documentation provided. Now, the Summa series takes the cake regarding scientific proof. Like I have said before, if I wouldn't have heard and Nathan and Summa then I probably would have a great deal of doubt with the claims.
What's all the fuss about? The main "question" of this thread could have been answered in one word "No". If you need more proof than that stop being lazy and read the man's site because Linkwitz himself doesn't think "Orions sound great because dipole". Heck, just read the first couple paragraphs on the front page!
So we have a seven page thread based on an erroneous assumption and people are now complaining it's off topic? Well, I guess they're right but it went off topic when the first reply wasn't "No. Read the manual".
So we have a seven page thread based on an erroneous assumption and people are now complaining it's off topic? Well, I guess they're right but it went off topic when the first reply wasn't "No. Read the manual".
Uh...Okay. How very reasonable.
Apparently nothing is going to convince you to read the guy's site which is excellent and will answer all your questions plus teach you 50 more you didn't even know to ask, so I'll do the carrying and relay to you that he believes the major factor is the similarity of the on and off axis response. He says the Orion and the Pluto sound very similar to him (and if you haven't read the site the pluto is omni, nothing to do with dipole).
Seriously, just click this link and read at least the second section "Some After Thoughts" http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Pluto/intro.htm
edit: Okay I'll make it easy and copy and paste his words for you:
Apparently nothing is going to convince you to read the guy's site which is excellent and will answer all your questions plus teach you 50 more you didn't even know to ask, so I'll do the carrying and relay to you that he believes the major factor is the similarity of the on and off axis response. He says the Orion and the Pluto sound very similar to him (and if you haven't read the site the pluto is omni, nothing to do with dipole).
Seriously, just click this link and read at least the second section "Some After Thoughts" http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Pluto/intro.htm
edit: Okay I'll make it easy and copy and paste his words for you:
goskers said:
I'm afraid you are wrong in this. Box coloration, just like rainbow effect on DLP projectors is painfully obvious once you learn to recognize it. And it is obvious (to me at least) on ANY box speaker, even megabuck creations like Dynaudio Evidence, Avalons, Wilsons etc. Again I have not heard Summas, but simple law of energy conservation should suffice. Imagine that you somehow take ALL of the forward radiating energy from the woofer. Now imagine the same amount pumped into a small box (as it does happen); which (the box) is not that well acoustically insulated at all - after all bass cone is almost 100% acoustically trasparent to LF. It has to go somewhere, doesn't it ? And it does. And it can be heard, if you want to listen for for it. Or in my case, even if you DON"T want to listen for it
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