Read a translated account of one owner who decided to lubricate bearings with very light oil and his arm then refused to work properly. He had to solvent flush the bearings out and operation returned to normal. You might want to flush your bearings out and see if there is improvement. Regards Moray James.
acetal with glass balls should lower the friction in the vertical plain and be better damped?
Regards
James
Regards
James
Flush the bearings etc.
Well now, Moray James, Woodturner Fran and others, A good bunch of replies.
Moray - Point about the owner who oiled his bearings is most interesting. I'll clean them out again.
Woodturner Fran - Next step here is to convert the carriage to a light weight implementation. Instead of steel shafts for the bearings to mount on, no reason not to use aluminium tube. Then the wood block for the carriage frame can be drilled with lightening holes and made somewhat thinner. Could be we can take a tip from Maserati and make it a "Birdcage" frame. How about an open cell foam block?
New question - Does the real Cantus arm prefer high or low compliance cartridges?
Well now, Moray James, Woodturner Fran and others, A good bunch of replies.
Moray - Point about the owner who oiled his bearings is most interesting. I'll clean them out again.
Woodturner Fran - Next step here is to convert the carriage to a light weight implementation. Instead of steel shafts for the bearings to mount on, no reason not to use aluminium tube. Then the wood block for the carriage frame can be drilled with lightening holes and made somewhat thinner. Could be we can take a tip from Maserati and make it a "Birdcage" frame. How about an open cell foam block?
New question - Does the real Cantus arm prefer high or low compliance cartridges?
Hi,
Some of the smaller bearings from the 60x series run in a self-lubricating cage.
Adding lubricant usually fills the little clearance left and increases friction.
Too much lubricant in a typical cartridge bearing also increases drag and wear. A 60 to 70 % fill rate should be fine.
With the small bearings these arms use you could replace the grease lube for PTFE loaded oil or even just spray some PTFE based dry lube.
Cheers,
Some of the smaller bearings from the 60x series run in a self-lubricating cage.
Adding lubricant usually fills the little clearance left and increases friction.
Too much lubricant in a typical cartridge bearing also increases drag and wear. A 60 to 70 % fill rate should be fine.
With the small bearings these arms use you could replace the grease lube for PTFE loaded oil or even just spray some PTFE based dry lube.
Cheers,
My idea for a rough tryout:
Rob some wheels from one my my kids hotwheels cars. Use 3mm alu rod bent to shape as the arm, blutack as adjustable counterweight, perspex for the carriage assembly block - the aim being to make it really light. Don't know what to use for the glass tube. Its obviously fairly important part of the whole deal. Would love to use real glass but dunno about getting some with a slot in it. I do have a diamond wet tile saw - I wonder if that would do the trick....
For those thinking of fdegrove and the oil in the bearing.... I think you would be better to solvent-wash the grease and oil out, and then spray in some silicone/ptfe. I think Rocol etc sell it as slideway lubricant. Bearing wear is not going to be an issue here as the load is minimal, but the resistance the oil/grease would give would be huge. Bill - that would be something to try out quickly before you dismantle what you have made......
Fran
Rob some wheels from one my my kids hotwheels cars. Use 3mm alu rod bent to shape as the arm, blutack as adjustable counterweight, perspex for the carriage assembly block - the aim being to make it really light. Don't know what to use for the glass tube. Its obviously fairly important part of the whole deal. Would love to use real glass but dunno about getting some with a slot in it. I do have a diamond wet tile saw - I wonder if that would do the trick....
For those thinking of fdegrove and the oil in the bearing.... I think you would be better to solvent-wash the grease and oil out, and then spray in some silicone/ptfe. I think Rocol etc sell it as slideway lubricant. Bearing wear is not going to be an issue here as the load is minimal, but the resistance the oil/grease would give would be huge. Bill - that would be something to try out quickly before you dismantle what you have made......
Fran
Both the Cantus and the Statement run dry bearings. As far as I know Cantus is happy with a very wide range of cartridge compliances. You can get open cell glass foam made by Corning for Cryo insulation you can shape it with a pocket knife easier than soapstone.
Rolling the trolley on a rod has to be balanced and gravity wants to pull it off inside the trolley can ride up the inside wall and gravity just pulls it back down after the warp has passed.
You could fill a glass tube with something like blue tack or putty to damp vibrations while you attempt to cut it with a diamond saw.A jig to hold it would be a plan.
Rolling the trolley on a rod has to be balanced and gravity wants to pull it off inside the trolley can ride up the inside wall and gravity just pulls it back down after the warp has passed.
You could fill a glass tube with something like blue tack or putty to damp vibrations while you attempt to cut it with a diamond saw.A jig to hold it would be a plan.
.
Cantus look alike arm from Clearaudio, the new TT3
Perhaps we can borrow some ideas from this arm and its siblings.
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Cantus look alike arm from Clearaudio, the new TT3
Perhaps we can borrow some ideas from this arm and its siblings.
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Making progress continued.
Sorry folks about 92 not having anything other than the quote. I hit the wrong button.
Last night I substituted balsa for the carriage member, aluminum tube for the steel bearing support rods, removed the sand from the arm wand and counterweight tube (damping) and most important flushed out the oil from the bearings. The whole thing is much lighter now and seems to be working much better. Have listened to a few records and the stick/slip seems to be gone. Getting tired now so I'll go into greater detail tomorrow (later on today).
BillG
Sorry folks about 92 not having anything other than the quote. I hit the wrong button.
Last night I substituted balsa for the carriage member, aluminum tube for the steel bearing support rods, removed the sand from the arm wand and counterweight tube (damping) and most important flushed out the oil from the bearings. The whole thing is much lighter now and seems to be working much better. Have listened to a few records and the stick/slip seems to be gone. Getting tired now so I'll go into greater detail tomorrow (later on today).
BillG
After consulting with a glass technician,about the subject of cutting a slit in a glass tube,he said to me,that he can do it with a hand cutter,with eyes closed,sort of.
But the most interesting part is ,that he insisted , to use HALF of a glass tube,for this project.
He is not audiophile,but he knows a lot about our lunatic fringe.
" You will be able to clean it, before use with some alcohol and a cotton pom pon,easily without dismantling." (smiles)
Come to think of it ,this is valid and the use of the half tube,might overcome problems.
What do you think?
B.L.
But the most interesting part is ,that he insisted , to use HALF of a glass tube,for this project.
He is not audiophile,but he knows a lot about our lunatic fringe.
" You will be able to clean it, before use with some alcohol and a cotton pom pon,easily without dismantling." (smiles)
Come to think of it ,this is valid and the use of the half tube,might overcome problems.
What do you think?
B.L.
The more open the assembly the more exposed it is to contamination. The Slot provides for all the necessary motion of the arm and keeps the bearings and track protected at the same time. There are a lot of Cantus arms out there and this is not an issue with owners (over seventeen years).
What kind of a hand cutter was your friend talking about?
What kind of a hand cutter was your friend talking about?
Hi all
Panomaniac, great to see you on the forums (even in the analog ones
Riding outside of the tube means that 2 additional bearings need to be added, not necessarily the end of the world...The important part is keeping the unsprung weight (suspended) as low as possible, and as compliant as possible. Think: automotive suspension systems. We want the "wheels" to stay in contact with the supporting surface, without being too stiff that would create a "lift" of any of the wheels.
now apply that to a 4 wheel carriage, same thing. In the case of a 4 wheel carriage, the compliance must be perfectly matched (or as close as possible) to the movement of the stylus over a warp. Too stiff, it'll try to "jump", too soft and you could "bottom out". This based purely on the ability to track, not on tracking force requirements, or resonant frequency/compliance matching requirements for the arm/cart system.
I do think 2 roller bearings will act like 4 separate wheels if you look closely at the contact points of the glass tube. Mr. Campbell is right on suggesting an aluminium tube may be very good for DIY trials if cutting a slot into the glass tube becomes difficult. The glass tube may very well shatter as you try to grind out or cut the glass tube. Completely filling the tube with blue tack or similar, and the exterior of the tube completely covered with same, except the area where it is to be cut could be an answer.
Panomaniac, great to see you on the forums (even in the analog ones
Riding outside of the tube means that 2 additional bearings need to be added, not necessarily the end of the world...The important part is keeping the unsprung weight (suspended) as low as possible, and as compliant as possible. Think: automotive suspension systems. We want the "wheels" to stay in contact with the supporting surface, without being too stiff that would create a "lift" of any of the wheels.
now apply that to a 4 wheel carriage, same thing. In the case of a 4 wheel carriage, the compliance must be perfectly matched (or as close as possible) to the movement of the stylus over a warp. Too stiff, it'll try to "jump", too soft and you could "bottom out". This based purely on the ability to track, not on tracking force requirements, or resonant frequency/compliance matching requirements for the arm/cart system.
I do think 2 roller bearings will act like 4 separate wheels if you look closely at the contact points of the glass tube. Mr. Campbell is right on suggesting an aluminium tube may be very good for DIY trials if cutting a slot into the glass tube becomes difficult. The glass tube may very well shatter as you try to grind out or cut the glass tube. Completely filling the tube with blue tack or similar, and the exterior of the tube completely covered with same, except the area where it is to be cut could be an answer.
Hey Stew. Good to see you too.
I was rolling things along a glass towel rod here at home. I think maybe 3 bearings could do it. And the vertical movement of the arm could be a regular pivot as found on a normal tone arm.
The tone arm chariot could even be slung underneath the glass rod with the bearings on top.
Maybe not as nice as the slotted tube, but a heck of a lot easier. Just playing with ideas. =)
I was rolling things along a glass towel rod here at home. I think maybe 3 bearings could do it. And the vertical movement of the arm could be a regular pivot as found on a normal tone arm.
The tone arm chariot could even be slung underneath the glass rod with the bearings on top.
Maybe not as nice as the slotted tube, but a heck of a lot easier. Just playing with ideas. =)
Some of my earliest toying with glass and bearings was rolling a bearing on a solid glass rod and thinking this could work for a parallel tracker arm, but carrying it no further as I was building a Schroeder clone. Now, having built a glass V track, I'm thinking more about it. The bearings running inside a tube or a V have 2 contacting points per bearing for a total of 4 contacts. We will ignore all the ball contacts to ball race contacts for now. The outside configuration has only 3 contacts to the rod. So there is an advantage there. Now I have trouble setting the tracking force at the stylus tip using a balance type stylus gauge. There are 2 vertical motions of the arm wand. One results from the radial play of the bearing inner race. the other results from the bearing outer race riding up and down the inner faces of the V or the slotted glass tube. This second sliding friction is much greater than the radial motion of the inner race on its balls. The radial play determines the actual tracking force we are trying to set with the balance gauge. When we get the arm wand/cartridge up high enough to rest on the balance we have exceeded the free play zone of the bearings and are driving them up the inner walls of the tube/V. Set the counterweight to give the desired force there and you have something much different from the slight, almost free motion of the radial play. Setting tracking force with the V is a bear. Could be also with the slotted glass tube. Now the 3 bearings each riding on a single point of contact and sliding easily and radially looks to be the answer to the tracking force setting problem. Comments please?
BillG
BillG
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