Yes, the signal of original oscillator was cut off.
I thought about closer ground point, I think I'll do it later.
Thank you for advice.
New mods...
Well, was nothing new in this field since quite long time now...
In the last time I found out about a new improvement. Maybe someone else have already done it, but myself I found out about it just few days ago.
There is about the power lines of the stereo DAC chip (applicable for multichannel DAC as well).
As already known, I have my own designed PSU for AVCC - VddL/R analogue power rails for ES9018. Very good results so far in using this special PSU. But what about the rest of the DAC`s power rails (DVCC T/B, and VDD)?
My new mod approach it is also as an alternative to my mentioned above PSU.
As known, Oppo used to power the DAC chips in their players, three very standard regulators (2x1,2v, 1x 3,3v), and a more elaborated power supply for AVCC rail.
These three standard regulators are feed it directly from an raw/unregulated 7,5v, quite poor filtered for stock players. Also quite poor further filtering (post regulators). The AVCC regulator is feed it from the +12v (double) regulated rail.
As also well known, ES9018 outputted sound quality it essential depend by a very clean and low noise power for the chip`s fourth power lines. The very economical Oppo approach, chosen for the power lines of the DACs, it works well enough, but is very far from high quality sound, which these top component (ES9018), is capable for. One may know that original power source Oppo have designed for DVCC T/B rail of the chip it not deliver 3,3v, but 3,2v, and the design of this regulator it suffer for a one more issue, which it lower quite much the noise performances of this stage.
What is my improvement approach in this respect?
Well, improvements for the existent AVCC power system (my own recipe). Then improvements as well for the rest of the DAC power lines/regulators. What about using LDLN015 for the 1,2v lines, and an ADM7151 for the DVCC T/B one?
And what about to introduce a pre-regulator stage for all these power lines used by the ES9018 (except AVCC)?
This is very possible, and I have already designed the modules necessary for this modification approach. The designed modules are now under production. In almost two weeks I do hope to succeed to have the boards finished, and a first set assembled (pictured)...
Well, was nothing new in this field since quite long time now...
In the last time I found out about a new improvement. Maybe someone else have already done it, but myself I found out about it just few days ago.
There is about the power lines of the stereo DAC chip (applicable for multichannel DAC as well).
As already known, I have my own designed PSU for AVCC - VddL/R analogue power rails for ES9018. Very good results so far in using this special PSU. But what about the rest of the DAC`s power rails (DVCC T/B, and VDD)?
My new mod approach it is also as an alternative to my mentioned above PSU.
As known, Oppo used to power the DAC chips in their players, three very standard regulators (2x1,2v, 1x 3,3v), and a more elaborated power supply for AVCC rail.
These three standard regulators are feed it directly from an raw/unregulated 7,5v, quite poor filtered for stock players. Also quite poor further filtering (post regulators). The AVCC regulator is feed it from the +12v (double) regulated rail.
As also well known, ES9018 outputted sound quality it essential depend by a very clean and low noise power for the chip`s fourth power lines. The very economical Oppo approach, chosen for the power lines of the DACs, it works well enough, but is very far from high quality sound, which these top component (ES9018), is capable for. One may know that original power source Oppo have designed for DVCC T/B rail of the chip it not deliver 3,3v, but 3,2v, and the design of this regulator it suffer for a one more issue, which it lower quite much the noise performances of this stage.
What is my improvement approach in this respect?
Well, improvements for the existent AVCC power system (my own recipe). Then improvements as well for the rest of the DAC power lines/regulators. What about using LDLN015 for the 1,2v lines, and an ADM7151 for the DVCC T/B one?
And what about to introduce a pre-regulator stage for all these power lines used by the ES9018 (except AVCC)?
This is very possible, and I have already designed the modules necessary for this modification approach. The designed modules are now under production. In almost two weeks I do hope to succeed to have the boards finished, and a first set assembled (pictured)...
Last edited:
Would it be possible to mod this player to output digital out for all channels, including all processing like volume control and bass management affecting that digital out signals?
I would like to feed a digital signal to my active crossover to avoid unnecessary DA-conversions.
I would like to feed a digital signal to my active crossover to avoid unnecessary DA-conversions.
Last edited:
It may be tapped in a way, but that signals can not travel so far as only few cm, before getting into a real mess of digital signals...
However, this task is not just as simple. There is quite complex to transmit such digital informations far away and keep their integrity so to have a hifi result at the outputs.
Even more, a software it have to be involved into this processing, to control and keep the bits in their right places.
I can not see this task be done by "one man" in a enough simple and cost effective way, but a team working quite much to design such a system/product...
The 105 player it offer digital interface through HDMI. This interface should be used for digital interconnections with other different devices... Another option is to be used the analogue outputs of the device. A modified player it can perform at very high level on these analogue outputs... Very different quality than the original approach.
However, this task is not just as simple. There is quite complex to transmit such digital informations far away and keep their integrity so to have a hifi result at the outputs.
Even more, a software it have to be involved into this processing, to control and keep the bits in their right places.
I can not see this task be done by "one man" in a enough simple and cost effective way, but a team working quite much to design such a system/product...
The 105 player it offer digital interface through HDMI. This interface should be used for digital interconnections with other different devices... Another option is to be used the analogue outputs of the device. A modified player it can perform at very high level on these analogue outputs... Very different quality than the original approach.
OPPO all digital output
It is possible to convert the 103 in a complete digital transport.
The dutch company Audiopraise has a product named Vanity 103 HD which replaces the complete analog board!
You turn all channels into digital spdif output.
The whole managment thing including all processing is being preserved.
I´ve installed it a couple of months ago and it works perfect.
It is possible to convert the 103 in a complete digital transport.
The dutch company Audiopraise has a product named Vanity 103 HD which replaces the complete analog board!
You turn all channels into digital spdif output.
The whole managment thing including all processing is being preserved.
I´ve installed it a couple of months ago and it works perfect.
I'm new here, but following the oppo mod world for some times. I have my 105D for a month now, and still tweaking just the cables to get it right. I'm using it purely as an audio transport, coaxial to wyred4sound DAC2 DSD femto.
I'm now sure I'll get your psu, Coris, as upgrading it will get me an improved result for both the video and sound part.
Upgrading the way the oppo work as a digital transport though, I don't know if I can get it better, as I want to keep my DAC at any rate (I live in Reunion island, and bought it in the US, you can imagine the journey to make it come to my place ^^). I don't place to use the oppo's DAC for now on, so the PSU sound like the best mod for a first mod I think.
I'm now sure I'll get your psu, Coris, as upgrading it will get me an improved result for both the video and sound part.
Upgrading the way the oppo work as a digital transport though, I don't know if I can get it better, as I want to keep my DAC at any rate (I live in Reunion island, and bought it in the US, you can imagine the journey to make it come to my place ^^). I don't place to use the oppo's DAC for now on, so the PSU sound like the best mod for a first mod I think.
Yes, indeed the serial power supply it improve/upgrade a lot in a quite simple way to do it, the overall quality of the device. As I mentioned before, I do not know exactly why it may be like this. It looks like is very beneficial for the (very noisy) digital system stage of a device, to be powered by a very quiet and smooth power supply. The serial PSU (LPM) it seems to be ideal for the quality of the process resulting signals. The only problem with a such approach is the heat dissipation for quite large currents the digital system it may use/need.
Particularly for this Oppo players powered by this LPM, the heat dissipation is solved. First the transformer of the LPM is carefully dimensioned and customized to minimize the regulator`s dissipation. Else, I use now a much better and more effective fan (same dimensions), which it spins totally noiseless from more than 20cm distance from it, without the upper cover mounted. With completely closed enclosure, the temperature of the LPM heatsink (fully loaded player: USB hard disk connected, BD playback), it not goes over 46dg.C. More than only cooling the LPM, the fan used (included in the kit), it cool too the rest of the player dissipating components, as the processor, video chip, DACs, and the analogue stage devices. Lowering the inside temperature to the room temperature, by a effective ventilation it have impact for the overall signals outputted`s quality as well...
It is enough obvious for me that the improvement of the digital processing quality, it lead to improvements for both sound and picture out of the player, when powered by this LPM. Easiest, cheapest and most effective upgrade one can do as a first step...
So deanorthk you are only welcome. Just PM me after taken your decisions.
Particularly for this Oppo players powered by this LPM, the heat dissipation is solved. First the transformer of the LPM is carefully dimensioned and customized to minimize the regulator`s dissipation. Else, I use now a much better and more effective fan (same dimensions), which it spins totally noiseless from more than 20cm distance from it, without the upper cover mounted. With completely closed enclosure, the temperature of the LPM heatsink (fully loaded player: USB hard disk connected, BD playback), it not goes over 46dg.C. More than only cooling the LPM, the fan used (included in the kit), it cool too the rest of the player dissipating components, as the processor, video chip, DACs, and the analogue stage devices. Lowering the inside temperature to the room temperature, by a effective ventilation it have impact for the overall signals outputted`s quality as well...
It is enough obvious for me that the improvement of the digital processing quality, it lead to improvements for both sound and picture out of the player, when powered by this LPM. Easiest, cheapest and most effective upgrade one can do as a first step...
So deanorthk you are only welcome. Just PM me after taken your decisions.
Last edited:
In my opinion, is the most reasonable to upgrade/improve the the DAC (stereo) stage already existent in the player, to get its full capabilities, than invest in another external device, or use the Oppo`s digital interfaces to connect it to another systems.
Oppo players it can very much, if upgraded accordingly... LPM should be the first step.
Oppo players it can very much, if upgraded accordingly... LPM should be the first step.
Well, my last new mod is now in place and working.
A pre regulator (5v) instead of the original raw 7,5v power for the DAC regulators inputs (VddL/R, DVCC, as VDD). Then the new regulator modules. AVCC line it have in this version of the mod, the original designed regulator, also strongly improved.
There is well known that ES9018 it likes very much the quiet power on all its rails. The implementing of this modification it confirm for full this well known fact, and it prove in the same time the mid quality of the Oppo original design (well, justified by large production reduced costs).
With these regulators system in place, the sound become at once very smooth, and especially pleasant to listen it. Everything is more natural, extremely detailed, with extended volume and resolution of the sound sources into the soundscene. Very nice!
It just think now that there is anything else left to be replaced on this stereo board of this Oppo device...
A pre regulator (5v) instead of the original raw 7,5v power for the DAC regulators inputs (VddL/R, DVCC, as VDD). Then the new regulator modules. AVCC line it have in this version of the mod, the original designed regulator, also strongly improved.
There is well known that ES9018 it likes very much the quiet power on all its rails. The implementing of this modification it confirm for full this well known fact, and it prove in the same time the mid quality of the Oppo original design (well, justified by large production reduced costs).
With these regulators system in place, the sound become at once very smooth, and especially pleasant to listen it. Everything is more natural, extremely detailed, with extended volume and resolution of the sound sources into the soundscene. Very nice!
It just think now that there is anything else left to be replaced on this stereo board of this Oppo device...
Attachments
Last edited:
Well, my last new mod is now in place and working.
A pre regulator (5v) instead of the original raw 7,5v power for the DAC regulators inputs (VddL/R, DVCC, as VDD). Then the new regulator modules. AVCC line it have in this version of the mod, the original designed regulator, also strongly improved.
There is well known that ES9018 it likes very much the quiet power on all its rails. The implementing of this modification it confirm for full this well known fact, and it prove in the same time the mid quality of the Oppo original design (well, justified by large production reduced costs).
With these regulators system in place, the sound become at once very smooth, and especially pleasant to listen it. Everything is more natural, extremely detailed, with extended volume and resolution of the sound sources into the soundscene. Very nice!
It just think now that there is anything else left to be replaced on this stereo board of this Oppo device...
I asked this some years ago in this thread, if someone tried upgrading DAC power regulation. Now I know
Yeah, some may be slower than others...
Maybe this mod it was done by someone else long time ago, but not mentioned here...
For me it took quite a time to come on this common sense modification. I have focused on clock system and some other things. Now is done, and I can say that this last mod it complete all the previous improvements.
I started the improvement of the DAC chip power rails (quite late) with the analogue ones (AVCC and VddL/R), and designed my DAC PSU. I intended initially to use a second such similar module to power the DAC digital rails. Then I found out that this large capacities PSU it may not fit quite well (functional) for these digital rails of the DAC chip. These independent power modules approach is more appropriate, and better, especially for these rails.
I have implemented first this approach on a board where it was keep in place the original AVCC regulator, but improved. Next step it will be to install together my DAC PSU for DAC`s analogue rails and these modules for the digital stage of the chip, to have so replaced all the original power system for DAC.
I would like to point here about something maybe important to be known.
As I mentioned, I have in extension improved this Oppo player for different stages of the device, but I kept always in place, and replaced only in the last time these original DAC very standard (enough low quality) regulators.
I did it this for my own stereo board/device. Why so? Because I did not felt the need to change these regulators. The results were remarkable so with these standard voltage regulators in place.
I did the same extended mods for some difrent customers, keeping these regulators on board, and the results were also remarkable. In the last time I did the same for another customer, and this time the results were not just as before. Very good and detailed sound, with precise enough soundstage. But the sound it had somehow a harsh nuance/colour, with a kind of "aggressiveness" (if I may say so) in it.
After replacing these regulators for DAC`s digital rails on this board, everything became very smooth, natural, extended deepness for bass range, even more fine details in sound, and even more increased soundstage precision.
My conclusion out of this experience is as follow: these very standard voltage regulators Oppo have used for the three of the DAC power rails, it vary quite much from lot to lot or inside the same lot, and this is very normal for enough low quality components. On my board I had by chance some such regulators with better parameters. The same for some other boards I have modded. But on one of these boards, it was different. These regulators it were on the bottom of its parameter specifications, or even out of these. So, for some owners of these Oppo devices it may be all right, for some others not just all right in this respect.
The overall conclusion: it is best to replace all these standard voltage regulators for the DAC(s) power rails, with better/best sort of it. The result it become remarkable, but enough difficult to be perceived/observed without the rest of the improvements in place.
At least Oppo players are good and it satisfy enough customers/buyers. But for someone are not as good so as it are.... Therefore it was "invented" the modders...
Maybe this mod it was done by someone else long time ago, but not mentioned here...
For me it took quite a time to come on this common sense modification. I have focused on clock system and some other things. Now is done, and I can say that this last mod it complete all the previous improvements.
I started the improvement of the DAC chip power rails (quite late) with the analogue ones (AVCC and VddL/R), and designed my DAC PSU. I intended initially to use a second such similar module to power the DAC digital rails. Then I found out that this large capacities PSU it may not fit quite well (functional) for these digital rails of the DAC chip. These independent power modules approach is more appropriate, and better, especially for these rails.
I have implemented first this approach on a board where it was keep in place the original AVCC regulator, but improved. Next step it will be to install together my DAC PSU for DAC`s analogue rails and these modules for the digital stage of the chip, to have so replaced all the original power system for DAC.
I would like to point here about something maybe important to be known.
As I mentioned, I have in extension improved this Oppo player for different stages of the device, but I kept always in place, and replaced only in the last time these original DAC very standard (enough low quality) regulators.
I did it this for my own stereo board/device. Why so? Because I did not felt the need to change these regulators. The results were remarkable so with these standard voltage regulators in place.
I did the same extended mods for some difrent customers, keeping these regulators on board, and the results were also remarkable. In the last time I did the same for another customer, and this time the results were not just as before. Very good and detailed sound, with precise enough soundstage. But the sound it had somehow a harsh nuance/colour, with a kind of "aggressiveness" (if I may say so) in it.
After replacing these regulators for DAC`s digital rails on this board, everything became very smooth, natural, extended deepness for bass range, even more fine details in sound, and even more increased soundstage precision.
My conclusion out of this experience is as follow: these very standard voltage regulators Oppo have used for the three of the DAC power rails, it vary quite much from lot to lot or inside the same lot, and this is very normal for enough low quality components. On my board I had by chance some such regulators with better parameters. The same for some other boards I have modded. But on one of these boards, it was different. These regulators it were on the bottom of its parameter specifications, or even out of these. So, for some owners of these Oppo devices it may be all right, for some others not just all right in this respect.
The overall conclusion: it is best to replace all these standard voltage regulators for the DAC(s) power rails, with better/best sort of it. The result it become remarkable, but enough difficult to be perceived/observed without the rest of the improvements in place.
At least Oppo players are good and it satisfy enough customers/buyers. But for someone are not as good so as it are...
. Therefore it was "invented" the modders...
Last edited:
Do you have a picture or schematic showing which regulators are used for the dac?
Are they easily reached, or does a lot has to be disassembled to be able to replace the regulators?
I changed to newclassd regulators in a dacmagic some years ago, the sound difference was very like you described here.
Are they easily reached, or does a lot has to be disassembled to be able to replace the regulators?
I changed to newclassd regulators in a dacmagic some years ago, the sound difference was very like you described here.
These regulators are place it where are now my modules installed (in above picture). Their datasheets are to be found by Google search.
To remove it is necessary to take out the big caps around. Else these caps it may not look quite well after such operation...
The final result(s) is (are) in conjunction with enough many other factors. In some cases it may be noticed at once, in other cases not exactly the same... However, the main idea here is to be replace it.
I may underline that only this modification as stand alone it may not lead to dramatic improvements. One or many modifications it may be appreciated into an approach for the whole system.
And there is also another aspect concerning this mod. I may not see good results by only replacing these regulators with some other similar. At least I can not imagine how to solder in place a LDLN015, or a ADM7151 chip or so, on the original footprints of these regulators. Well, it may work in a way, but not very sure that the results it may be as expected....
One should not forget that this is about the DAC power rails. An error or fault here it may destroy forever the DAC... I have experienced such, and hopefully I found out that the 1,2v VddL/R it can tolerate 3,3v and more. But I do not want to repeat ever that experience...
To remove it is necessary to take out the big caps around. Else these caps it may not look quite well after such operation...
The final result(s) is (are) in conjunction with enough many other factors. In some cases it may be noticed at once, in other cases not exactly the same... However, the main idea here is to be replace it.
I may underline that only this modification as stand alone it may not lead to dramatic improvements. One or many modifications it may be appreciated into an approach for the whole system.
And there is also another aspect concerning this mod. I may not see good results by only replacing these regulators with some other similar. At least I can not imagine how to solder in place a LDLN015, or a ADM7151 chip or so, on the original footprints of these regulators. Well, it may work in a way, but not very sure that the results it may be as expected....
One should not forget that this is about the DAC power rails. An error or fault here it may destroy forever the DAC... I have experienced such, and hopefully I found out that the 1,2v VddL/R it can tolerate 3,3v and more. But I do not want to repeat ever that experience...
Last edited:
After doing some measurements, I only have to admit that I got quite angry on myself about this (Oppo design) regulator approach for DAC power rails.
I kept in place and never thought to change it, while doing all kind of modifications to improve the sound quality out of this player. Well, the improvement task it was reach it, and a better sound it was out of the device, but I was still keeping these regulators on board, even I noticed the wrong Oppo`s approach about the DAC`s rails powering system. And it took years before came on this issue...
I got always such scope snapshots (pic1) on outputs, using unfiltered post DAC analogue processing, and I always wondered why one get such modulated HF signals/noises of such high levels. I was still getting the same HF noise patterns, even while using my DAC large capacities PSU, but only lower levels.
I was even thinking that this kind of noises are something particular to the ES9018 chip and its way of functioning. WRONG, WRONG!
Only in the very last time I found out what about these anomalies...
This high level HF (modulated) noises it come just from a stupid/cheap design, and low quality components used by Oppo to power the VDD, DVCC, and VddL/R rails of the DAC chip.
Please take a look at the Pic2 here. This is what I get on the device`s outputs (using the same non filtering analogue processing circuits), after replacing these standard regulators, and introducing a supplemental one to regulate the raw 7,5v rail.
This is the original Oppo`s approach in this area: Toroid transformer, rectifying bridge and filtering cap (3300µ) to get the 7,5vDC line. Then these 7,5v are fit it directly into the 3,3v and 1,2v regulators. 1000µ caps for filtering before and after these regulators, as some local 220µ decoupling caps.
Even more, the 3,3v regulator for DVCC is an adjustable device. The designers maybe thought to lower the production costs, and did not provided this adjustable regulator with the right resistor divider to establish on its output 3,3v (it deliver actually 3,2v), and the necessary capacitor on its adjustable pin, to improve its noise parameters. This cap on the adjustable regulator device`s pin is a basic design rule to improve the regulator`s noise figures... Well, not used here...
Then the player`s designers used strong HF filtering on post DAC analogue processing, to eliminate the HF noises, modulated by a high level 50Hz component, induced into the DAC chip, through its power rails... As known, HF filtering and strong HF filtering it have negative impact for sound quality. There is also known well enough that the original design of these players it not support a very high level for the sound quality out of these devices, even thought it is using the most advanced DAC chip.
The powering system for DAC chip, it is a very important area in this device design, and this area is wrong done it. I will recommend to all who can do it, to remove/replace these regulators with quality ones.
But this it may not be quite enough, as the whole area should be improved by a better approach.
The impact of this improved DAC`s powering system is quite dramatic for the sound quality, even though all of the another improvements it may be already in place.
I kept in place and never thought to change it, while doing all kind of modifications to improve the sound quality out of this player. Well, the improvement task it was reach it, and a better sound it was out of the device, but I was still keeping these regulators on board, even I noticed the wrong Oppo`s approach about the DAC`s rails powering system. And it took years before came on this issue...
I got always such scope snapshots (pic1) on outputs, using unfiltered post DAC analogue processing, and I always wondered why one get such modulated HF signals/noises of such high levels. I was still getting the same HF noise patterns, even while using my DAC large capacities PSU, but only lower levels.
I was even thinking that this kind of noises are something particular to the ES9018 chip and its way of functioning. WRONG, WRONG!
Only in the very last time I found out what about these anomalies...
This high level HF (modulated) noises it come just from a stupid/cheap design, and low quality components used by Oppo to power the VDD, DVCC, and VddL/R rails of the DAC chip.
Please take a look at the Pic2 here. This is what I get on the device`s outputs (using the same non filtering analogue processing circuits), after replacing these standard regulators, and introducing a supplemental one to regulate the raw 7,5v rail.
This is the original Oppo`s approach in this area: Toroid transformer, rectifying bridge and filtering cap (3300µ) to get the 7,5vDC line. Then these 7,5v are fit it directly into the 3,3v and 1,2v regulators. 1000µ caps for filtering before and after these regulators, as some local 220µ decoupling caps.
Even more, the 3,3v regulator for DVCC is an adjustable device. The designers maybe thought to lower the production costs, and did not provided this adjustable regulator with the right resistor divider to establish on its output 3,3v (it deliver actually 3,2v), and the necessary capacitor on its adjustable pin, to improve its noise parameters. This cap on the adjustable regulator device`s pin is a basic design rule to improve the regulator`s noise figures... Well, not used here...
Then the player`s designers used strong HF filtering on post DAC analogue processing, to eliminate the HF noises, modulated by a high level 50Hz component, induced into the DAC chip, through its power rails... As known, HF filtering and strong HF filtering it have negative impact for sound quality. There is also known well enough that the original design of these players it not support a very high level for the sound quality out of these devices, even thought it is using the most advanced DAC chip.
The powering system for DAC chip, it is a very important area in this device design, and this area is wrong done it. I will recommend to all who can do it, to remove/replace these regulators with quality ones.
But this it may not be quite enough, as the whole area should be improved by a better approach.
The impact of this improved DAC`s powering system is quite dramatic for the sound quality, even though all of the another improvements it may be already in place.
Attachments
Last edited: