Maybe reading the patent may help:
United States Patent: 7043074
The stuff claim isn't really limited to the noise artifacts you mention. At least to my eyes, what the Darbee does in my system surpasses any mods I can make to my receiver. Many others on AVS forums that have tried this on their equipment agree.
United States Patent: 7043074
The stuff claim isn't really limited to the noise artifacts you mention. At least to my eyes, what the Darbee does in my system surpasses any mods I can make to my receiver. Many others on AVS forums that have tried this on their equipment agree.
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Maybe reading the patent may help:
United States Patent: 7043074
The stuff claim isn't really limited to the noise artifacts you mention. At least to my eyes, what the Darbee does in my system surpasses any mods I can make to my receiver. Many others on AVS forums that have tried this on their equipment agree.
Yes, I see... (thanks for the link).
A quick view over the Darbee patent content it shows a completely new approach in digital image processing, by real time processing of (a virtual camera) fields of views, to improve the depth perception in a 2D image. This processing is specially suitable for the moving pictures (video), where a negative/unwanted effect (blur) is turned into, and exploited to get benefit of it.
This patent confirm to me that, while in audio domain, and HD video, Darbee software processing techniques it goes well to be used, it represent a very serious challenge, when processing 4K/8K real time digital video. One need for sure a very powerful computing device to succeed to process so huge data video streams, at extremely speeds, in real time... This it may not happen very soon in the consumer world...
With the way SOC processing is going, I doubt this will be a serious challenge - the current IC used is supposed to be quite cheap at around $2 (it's the code Darbee uses that is worth "money") for 1080P.
The bigger challenge is finding an affordable storage medium that will hold 4K content. We are still a couple of years off consumer solutions for that I think, by then Darbee should have a working solution depending upon how he intends to licenese the tech from here on. I'd expect SOC solutions or microprocessors will be able to do what is needed by then.
The bigger challenge is finding an affordable storage medium that will hold 4K content. We are still a couple of years off consumer solutions for that I think, by then Darbee should have a working solution depending upon how he intends to licenese the tech from here on. I'd expect SOC solutions or microprocessors will be able to do what is needed by then.
I think we have here two fundamental different approaches, when referring to a Darbee real time processing (video/sound), and the hardware capable processing of the same kind of signals.
Darbee is mainly a trick based technique to lie both the eyes and the brain of a user to see/hear what is not there in the signal, picture, or sound. Well, for the Darbee sound processing I admit that it can be a little bit different, than in this case of a video stage of the BDP105D...
This Darbee processing does not at all improve the basically signal. The basically signal still be so as it is, more or less in parameters, in that designed hardware. Darbee it only use enormous computing processing to create illusions about perfections... This technique is already used for long time ago by magicians to manipulate a public to see what they want to be seen, and hide what is necessary. This is not something real, but it looks nice... Is at least is a gimmick, the customers buy or are willing spend money on it. As one buy a ticket to a magician show...
Lowering the noises in a video/audio system is not a trick, is something very real/physical, and leads to real improvements for the involved circuits/system.
Less jitter and noises induced by the clock (and power rails) in a system`s hardware processing it leads to more details and accuracy of the signals in both picture and sound. This improve the functioning of the involved electronic devices, and improve the useful signal. The result to be seen and heard is as real as it can physically be. The system give out more informations to the user, so that one can see and hear better, can rebuild the recorded signal with more fidelity. So, one can get a real picture depth perception of a 2D image, or "see" a sound stage (as it is looking on the window, or being in a concert hall).
BTW, the improvements I have observed in a better functioning player it apply to both moving pictures (video) as static images. Darbee can mainly function on moving pictures...
The tonal increased amount of levels one get with few small improvements in the system, the less noisy image, and more details, it leads to a real depth perception in all kind of video, not only when moving and blur generating is possible, based of the imperfections of human senses and brain processing.
These are not tricks, but only increasing of the useful needed informations the human senses and the brain get from a device to appreciate himself the reality more accurate, as in real circumstances.
So, I think the way to a real improved system is to improve its functionality first, but not using tricks to force in the unreal...
Darbee is mainly a trick based technique to lie both the eyes and the brain of a user to see/hear what is not there in the signal, picture, or sound. Well, for the Darbee sound processing I admit that it can be a little bit different, than in this case of a video stage of the BDP105D...
This Darbee processing does not at all improve the basically signal. The basically signal still be so as it is, more or less in parameters, in that designed hardware. Darbee it only use enormous computing processing to create illusions about perfections... This technique is already used for long time ago by magicians to manipulate a public to see what they want to be seen, and hide what is necessary. This is not something real, but it looks nice... Is at least is a gimmick, the customers buy or are willing spend money on it. As one buy a ticket to a magician show...
Lowering the noises in a video/audio system is not a trick, is something very real/physical, and leads to real improvements for the involved circuits/system.
Less jitter and noises induced by the clock (and power rails) in a system`s hardware processing it leads to more details and accuracy of the signals in both picture and sound. This improve the functioning of the involved electronic devices, and improve the useful signal. The result to be seen and heard is as real as it can physically be. The system give out more informations to the user, so that one can see and hear better, can rebuild the recorded signal with more fidelity. So, one can get a real picture depth perception of a 2D image, or "see" a sound stage (as it is looking on the window, or being in a concert hall).
BTW, the improvements I have observed in a better functioning player it apply to both moving pictures (video) as static images. Darbee can mainly function on moving pictures...
The tonal increased amount of levels one get with few small improvements in the system, the less noisy image, and more details, it leads to a real depth perception in all kind of video, not only when moving and blur generating is possible, based of the imperfections of human senses and brain processing.
These are not tricks, but only increasing of the useful needed informations the human senses and the brain get from a device to appreciate himself the reality more accurate, as in real circumstances.
So, I think the way to a real improved system is to improve its functionality first, but not using tricks to force in the unreal...
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This is wrong - Darbee works on both stills and moving images. You really should read up more on things before you make these types of assumptions Coris.
Nobody is saying that mods do not help or change things. At least we have finally established that mods cannot replace what Darbee does for the viewer. It's the strange assumptions that are being used to justify modding that are confusing in this thread.
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There is of course not only the increased (hardware) resolution which it may improve the image perception... There are important the very fine details in the reproduced digital picture, higher amount of tonal levels, and huge amount of other parameters. In these areas the noise/signal ratio is that which decide...
Else I have serious doubt that (for a god while) the consumer accessible technology will permit to Darbee to apply its processing technique (in real time) to a so huge amount of data and the extreme necessary speed for doing this, when about 4k/8k digital video/picture...
But they can do well enough when about Darbee sound applications... I just wander if Darbee technology in sound improving (impulse response of the digital processing), by real time software processing, is not the same what we are talking about here, and some of us are doing by hardware means, when about that cap placed over the DAc outputs...
Darbee sound processing increase the weight of the sounds in a large spectre in a audio chain But to get such improvement one have to have a computer connected to the audio system, to software process the signal, using Darbeee algorithms...
We (some...) get almost the same improvements by only solder in that cap in the place...
To be further discussed...
Darbee has nothing to do with sound quality; it is strictly a video processor/enhancer.
The sound processing in the 105 (or 105D) is from the audio DACs and audio DSP chip decoders. ...And the entire analog an digital circuit stages in their implementation, plus the audio parts chosen, determines the overall sound quality.
...Clock, oscillation, resistors, filters, capacitors, transistors, converters, dither, jitter, harmonic distortion, oversampling, bits depth, rate, up-sampling, etc.
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There were several things you stated about the Darbee unit that were factually incorrect - strange assumptions actually. That was the only source of confusion not the mods themselves Coris. Nothing that a bit of reading on your side would not have fixed my friend.
Anyway, enjoy your modding. People will always be here to correct anything unfactual I am sure haha
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Yes, of course I know this very well. There is no any Darbee sound processing in BDP105D. I refer in my post to that fact that Darbee have products for sound processing/improvement too. They started actually with their applications in sound domain. Then it were developed the technique for video processing. Oppo use a Darbee license for sound in one of their last mobile phone model.
PART FIVE
MURATA SMD ON DAC ETC:
Murata 10uF/25V SMD 1206 - GRM32NF51E106ZA01L - Farnell/Element14 Part # 952-7818.
These are excellent in reducing the noise floor, not just from the power supply but also the back-EMF noise that the DAC emits. on...
Joe,
I've been meaning to ask your subjective opinion/experience of using these large value Murata multi-layer ceramics with analog circuits. If I correctly recall, you use them to bypass analog circuits as well as digital. There are those out there who say they would never use ceramics with analog circuits, however, my mind is very open about it, and I have come to respect your audio observational skill.
I think you are being a little unfair, Coris is not a professional 'modder' in the same way that I am.
Interesting that you should say it, Darbee, works on stills as well. The 'local contrast enhancement' is a technology that has been available to digital photography post-processing.
See attachment.
Cheers, Joe
Attachments
Wow, that looks pretty good to my eyes.
...That still picture there, that and that only, and do we know the exact source; from a Blu-ray disc, a DVD disc, a video file, satellite, cable, etc.?
And how much post-manipulation has been applied after the fact?
Ask anyone who works on Panasonic plasma tv's(competently, at least), and they will tell you, as I will, emphatically to avoid those Murata and other brand smd ceramic caps of 0.47uf & higher. Even the 50V ones can't stand up to even 12VDC continuous, no ripple voltage exposure for more than a year or two, without a lot of luck. If you just think about how thin the ceramic layers need to be to jam that much capacity into such a small package(probably close to a molecule thick in that 10uf/25V 1206-package cap), you'll realise why it's a miracle they don't dead short on first charge. My opinion, in other words- RUN AWAY!
Whilst I'm obviously not Joe
I am having very positive experiences with these kinds of MLCCs when decoupling analog circuits. I'm using them on both chipamps and IC amps, including at least one opamp. The more the merrier, stacked on top of the chip. They act like the closest thing to an AC crowbar known to man reducing HF noise to immeasurable levels. I only wish they were available in much larger values - but already there are MLCCs which beat low voltage electrolytics in uF/mm^3.I did not mean to come across as unfair Joe. I merely encouraged Coris to read up on the stuff he was making assumptions on - one does not need to be a Pro modder to do that.
Here's demos you can use on still images on the Darbee site to show various effects: http://darbeevision.com/images
-Raja
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Maybe I am the one being a little sensitive. There is a Stereonet forum here in Australia and every now and then I get an email or PM telling me that I am being mentioned on a forum with regards to some work that I have done. Well, when I do make an appearance and say anything positive about what I do, or clarify something or other, well, they come out of the woodwork and accuse me of being there solely to promote my product/business. I can't remember last I have made an appearance because of that. I just don't need the aggravation.
Cheers, Joe
There is quite strange for me that someone may appreciate such manipulated and obvious distorted still picture after a Darbee processing.
I have being myself in photo world for a good while now, and I`m enough experienced with photography processing, and so on, but I will never accept a so rough manipulated image on my displays. If is this what mean Darbee "improvements", then this will never be something for me.
In motion pictures these rough image manipulations, sharpness increasing and contrast exaggerations it does not looks for a viewer so bad, because the fast changing in picture composition, or a distributed a attention on many other fields. But on still picture this is really bad!
I will never want or pay for such...
If you know how Photoshop works, then you may not have so much trust in what you may see around as demo pictures.... specially on web, jpeg compressed, low resolution, and all that to reduce the picture digital size...
I can not pretend that I`m an expert in Adobe software, but I could for sure do a better looking "demo pictures" to be showed on Darbee web site...
But OK, this is a quite subjective subject to be discussed for ever. Everyone have his own ways to appreciate or not things, and at least this is a thread about BDP105 Oppo player.
So, I will propose we get back on the topic... of the more or less professional mods...
I have being used and I still use the ceramic caps in my circuits. I have seen and I see that some still make fun of my picture showing many such caps on the top of the chips...
Well, I`m not a so prof modder, as others...These ceramic caps are to be used on some applications, and not on other... One may carefully chose the field which these caps fits. Else the ceramics are widely used in today electronics. This is for sure not because are bad component...
I will want to use it more for decoupling digital circuits, in some cases as coupling caps, also in digital domain. The big advantage of these components are the missing or extremely low of ESI, as very small physical dimensions, for a quite large capacity range...
They are bad when about maintain its capacity in temperature variations. There is a quite large variation of the capacity, with temperature. That because I have renounced to use it on top of the chips, or in some cases, for analogue decoupling...
But what to be used then? I have experimented with low ESR alu SMD caps, and the results are not bad. But one may have enough place to use such big components. Film SMD caps are also a god choice for coupling or decoupling in analogue, when their quite low range capacities fits the application.
It may be a good choice in some circumstances the tantalum caps too. But in general these are quite electrical fragile... The advantages are low ESR/ESI, big capacities for dimensions, and good decoupling properties.
It is not very easy to advice or to chose the best cap for an application... But as a conclusion , I will suggest a SMD low ESR alu/oscon cap for decoupling the power rails of a chip, in parallel with an accordingly capacity value, SMD film cap.
And at least, try large capacity values for decoupling the power rails, specially for analogue. You may have a very pleasant surprise...
In my opinion, a 10µ decoupling capacity for a vital analogue component as DAC analogue stage, or opamp or so, it looks to me today quite ridiculous...
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