Sorry, been very busy and still probably have to work on weekend!
anyhow, i m cooking something !
and will be back with some ideas.
Even better, half the price ! I was looking at 11ms , looks like need some taming above 7K, have you hear them yet?
thanks for the input Lojzek, have a design competition is a neat idea but as you said we will have problem having motivated builders to actually try that, so for now I m trying to put some ideas together to come up with a plan, and i m hoping that I will build the speaker myself as we go
that was not the idea at first BUT I will come up with something. didn't saw the sunflower before, very interesting and it gave me an idea, will start studying these two designs and hope fully will have more details soon. thanks for Sunflower link !
I like the Dick Olsher design because I like the combination and I was thinking about it for a while but never went forit since first it is out of my price range and second it is huge for my small apartment and it may also can use some updates,so i m not thinking of imitating the same design but something rather evolved from it. so any suggestions are welcome, what do you think of Sunflower and Basszilla and specially what you don't like ?
anyhow, i m cooking something !
and will be back with some ideas.Even better, half the price ! I was looking at 11ms , looks like need some taming above 7K, have you hear them yet?
thanks for the input Lojzek, have a design competition is a neat idea but as you said we will have problem having motivated builders to actually try that, so for now I m trying to put some ideas together to come up with a plan, and i m hoping that I will build the speaker myself as we go
that was not the idea at first BUT I will come up with something. didn't saw the sunflower before, very interesting and it gave me an idea, will start studying these two designs and hope fully will have more details soon. thanks for Sunflower link !
mordikai said:
I like the Dick Olsher design because I like the combination and I was thinking about it for a while but never went forit since first it is out of my price range and second it is huge for my small apartment and it may also can use some updates,so i m not thinking of imitating the same design but something rather evolved from it. so any suggestions are welcome, what do you think of Sunflower and Basszilla and specially what you don't like ?
The round sides are difficult to make, not going to help with attracting newbies.
This looks like the high end vs high fidelity issue again. These types of speakers are considered good/high performance by a significant number of people. You (and I) may not understand why or be able to make positive contributions to their design but if a few can and the OP is one of them then this group project is likely to pick up speed.
FWIW I do not understand what's wrong with a good 2 way.
Something basic like either: Peerless SLS 830669 12" or the Beyma 12BR70 12" in closed chamber + the Fountek FE85 3" to cover everything from 3-500hz up would go a long way.
You'd get away with maybe 60 liters total internal volume, not humongous, not expensive, and you could easily make a spheric solution for the Fountek 3", improving diffraction, should one wish to do so.
Something basic like either: Peerless SLS 830669 12" or the Beyma 12BR70 12" in closed chamber + the Fountek FE85 3" to cover everything from 3-500hz up would go a long way.
You'd get away with maybe 60 liters total internal volume, not humongous, not expensive, and you could easily make a spheric solution for the Fountek 3", improving diffraction, should one wish to do so.
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Why would this be better? For what?
We REALLY need to understand what we're trying to achieve. Before going further, someone (Aatto?) needs to set up a "spec sheet" that defines the key data for the speaker design that we're supposed to cook up. I don't think the resulting speaker will be an exciting new design with many breakthrough solutions that have never been used before. I guess the main "selling point" of this speaker would be that it was not designed by a particular guy or company, but by many individuals who threw in their wisdom and know how.
If this collaborative design process is supposed to get going anywhere, the spec sheet should define some guidance about where we are supposed to go. Things like "for whom do we design this speaker (who is going to build it?)", "what's the cost range (with an upper limit!)", "size/dimensions of the speaker (desktop, bookshelf, floorstander)", "sensitivity / amplifier requirements (will it work well with a small tube amp?)". I guess there are many more points that will be important, so feel free to add things to the list.
The "spec sheet" should be in a format such that it can be changed / extended as the design evolves. Aatto (or anyone), you could set up a Wiki page here on diyaudio.com, which would allow everyone to work on the document and collaborate in the design.
We REALLY need to understand what we're trying to achieve. Before going further, someone (Aatto?) needs to set up a "spec sheet" that defines the key data for the speaker design that we're supposed to cook up. I don't think the resulting speaker will be an exciting new design with many breakthrough solutions that have never been used before. I guess the main "selling point" of this speaker would be that it was not designed by a particular guy or company, but by many individuals who threw in their wisdom and know how.
If this collaborative design process is supposed to get going anywhere, the spec sheet should define some guidance about where we are supposed to go. Things like "for whom do we design this speaker (who is going to build it?)", "what's the cost range (with an upper limit!)", "size/dimensions of the speaker (desktop, bookshelf, floorstander)", "sensitivity / amplifier requirements (will it work well with a small tube amp?)". I guess there are many more points that will be important, so feel free to add things to the list.
The "spec sheet" should be in a format such that it can be changed / extended as the design evolves. Aatto (or anyone), you could set up a Wiki page here on diyaudio.com, which would allow everyone to work on the document and collaborate in the design.
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Let's have some fun and throw a party first
We are trying to achieve a mission impossible, to find someone willing to design and build this pro bono or something like that.
We are trying to achieve a mission impossible, to find someone willing to design and build this pro bono or something like that.
Bass?
I'm not really into a 6" mid and a 7" woofer.
I do agree with this.
Speaking as a somewhat newcomer to this hobby, I could see myself building something designed by the knowledgeable individuals on this forum. That is providing cost of drivers and crossover parts was not cost prohibitive. I had been contemplating a classic 3 way for my next build when I just now stumbled onto this thread. I will reserve purchasing the drivers I was considering and see what the group comes up with for a design. It seems to me, that for cost to performance ratio that SB Acoustics is hard to beat. Something like their 29NRX75-6 or 34NRX75-6 would do nicely to anchor the low end. But, there probably will come to light other driver suggestions that may prove to be equal to or better.
Just Hoping This Project Really Takes Off!
Best,
Rich
But, there probably will come to light other driver suggestions that may prove to be equal to or better.Just Hoping This Project Really Takes Off!
Best,
Rich
I also agree, well to a point. I would rephrase it into like, let someone of the potentially interested in building this loudspeaker, show us exactly which speaker you find exciting so that we can come up with a proposal. For instance, would you rather we design a replica of the Ferrari of the 70's, the 80's or 90's..., or would you rather prefer an Audi R8, or a Mercedes Benz 190 evolution, perhaps a family car sleeper, I don't know.
I believe that it would be natural to first ask those newbie DIYers what brand and model of a commercial loudspeaker would they be happy to own, so that we can design a very similar copy (performance wise). Their saying is more important than the designer's because they will be investing in the project and they better like it. The chances for a success would be greater if it were like that, imo. I have talked to audiophiles in Croatia and they all expressed a desire to own some kind of a flagship product of a famous loudspeaker company. That is where I am drawing my conclusions from.
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Example ... Magico M series look.
Simple and beautiful, but not easy to construct such cabinet with this curved concept. I am not a wood specialist.
Also a slow curved front to the sides like Magico does in its speakers, has a very good radiation pattern.
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I agree with this, and it really shouldn't be that hard to come up with some basic specifications that others could buy into and that would then guide the design. For example:
- minimum output of X dB
- sensitivity of Y dB/V
- distortion below Z% at all frequencies
- frequency response within zdB from a to b
- horizontal radiation pattern within xdB at listening angles from a to b
- vertical radiation pattern within ydB...etc
Once you have some concrete performance specifications, you can make some data-driven decisions on drivers and crossover, based on performance specifications, models or measurements.
Right now you only have a specification on how many drivers (3) and the system cost. That gives you a huge solution space, and making decisions with that much "freedom" is almost impossible.
Question: who is "you"? The whole thing was Aattos idea, so I guess it would be natural to let Aatto get the ball rolling. Aatto, do you want to take the lead?
Yes!
You might be the perfect guinea pig for this project! Do you want to start writing a description of the type of speaker you'd want / need? Something along the tech specs listed in post 279 would be helpful, but you could also provide some less technically evolved information. You could even describe what you have right now (amplifier, room, etc.) and your DIY experience, and ask questions deriving from that. The more experienced members could then take it from there and extract the relevant information.
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