Hi Mamboni
I did see the Silver Flute and know that they make very nice speakers - but I couldn't see any HF info about it. Just about anything small like this would work for a small system when combined with a decent HF driver used in accordance with your design. I'm still headed in the direction of your larger design for now - I'm loving it more and more every day. BudP and I have been having great fun discussing surface tension and wave theory as to being able to cause an interference boundary and I think we are nearly ready for 1st generation prototypes. Of course before we finished with the 1st generation designs I began fooling around with some even more advanced pattern theory for the blocks that may serve to make an even better device. I'm feeling BENT!!
I did see the Silver Flute and know that they make very nice speakers - but I couldn't see any HF info about it. Just about anything small like this would work for a small system when combined with a decent HF driver used in accordance with your design. I'm still headed in the direction of your larger design for now - I'm loving it more and more every day. BudP and I have been having great fun discussing surface tension and wave theory as to being able to cause an interference boundary and I think we are nearly ready for 1st generation prototypes. Of course before we finished with the 1st generation designs I began fooling around with some even more advanced pattern theory for the blocks that may serve to make an even better device. I'm feeling BENT!!
Hi Bob,
The good old ripple tank is what BudP was using when he originally thought up his EnABL pattern back in 1973 - but he can tell you that story. It is also what I mentally used when discussing interference patterns and wave theory with BudP in attempting to design an ideal pattern and shapes of the "blocks" used in such a pattern. I won't go into that here because 1) it would take to long 2) put me at risk of showing that I know just enough to be dangerous.
Here is a sample of what I have been playing around with. Wish I had some FEM software and a supercomputer.
Cheers - Thomas
The good old ripple tank is what BudP was using when he originally thought up his EnABL pattern back in 1973 - but he can tell you that story. It is also what I mentally used when discussing interference patterns and wave theory with BudP in attempting to design an ideal pattern and shapes of the "blocks" used in such a pattern. I won't go into that here because 1) it would take to long 2) put me at risk of showing that I know just enough to be dangerous.
Here is a sample of what I have been playing around with. Wish I had some FEM software and a supercomputer.
Cheers - Thomas
mamboni asked this in post #94 and BudP responded in post #96. It's Bud's idea and pattern so I don't want to speak for him out of my respect for his research and knowledge of his EnABL pattern. Heck - BudP holds the patent - so input from him is good as it can get! 
One sure way to find out - go do it!!
If the round blocks don't work they will make good markers for where you want to place the squares - so no harm done. I wouldn't try it out on your favorite $500.00 super speakers until I had done a little learning on the Pioneer speaker that mamboni recommends. It's a $45.00 speaker that has been proven to work with his felt triangles.
Thomas
BTW - I just got my funding request approved by my higher authority (Spousal Unit) so I'm ordering speakers and looking for a local source of SonoTube. YEA!!!
One sure way to find out - go do it!!
If the round blocks don't work they will make good markers for where you want to place the squares - so no harm done. I wouldn't try it out on your favorite $500.00 super speakers until I had done a little learning on the Pioneer speaker that mamboni recommends. It's a $45.00 speaker that has been proven to work with his felt triangles.
Thomas
BTW - I just got my funding request approved by my higher authority (Spousal Unit) so I'm ordering speakers and looking for a local source of SonoTube. YEA!!!
Hi Mamboni!
I have the Pioneer speakers on order along with the caps and resistors and adhesive as per your spec's.
I have located some sources for felt but then I realized that I'm not sure exactly what type of felt I'm looking for!
Are there any guide lines as to thickness or density? From your photo's I'm guessing about a 1/4 inch (6 mm) thickness of medium density was used. Is the type of felt used critical?
Thank You!
Thomas
I have the Pioneer speakers on order along with the caps and resistors and adhesive as per your spec's.
I have located some sources for felt but then I realized that I'm not sure exactly what type of felt I'm looking for!
Are there any guide lines as to thickness or density? From your photo's I'm guessing about a 1/4 inch (6 mm) thickness of medium density was used. Is the type of felt used critical?
Thank You!
Thomas
c2cthomas said:Hi Mamboni!
I have the Pioneer speakers on order along with the caps and resistors and adhesive as per your spec's.
I have located some sources for felt but then I realized that I'm not sure exactly what type of felt I'm looking for!
Are there any guide lines as to thickness or density? From your photo's I'm guessing about a 1/4 inch (6 mm) thickness of medium density was used. Is the type of felt used critical?
Thank You!
Thomas
I used standard felt cloth that is used in craft projects. You can buy it by the yard at Kmart or Fabric Barn. The same felt goes by the name Kunin felt. It's about 2mm thick by eye, as thick as a nickel. But, I don't think the exact thickness is critical - my guess is that there is a lot of play in how much damping is required to render the woofer cone non-resonant. 6mm sounds like very thick felt - more than you need.
Hi Mamboni -
I resorted to consulting with a shopping expert ----- that being my spousal unit.
It took her almost 2 nanoseconds to say the crafts section at WalMart!
Go Figure
Parts should be here in about a week - located a local source for Sonotube - which was more difficult than I thought and I finally wound up calling Sonotube to get hold of a local distributer. The 14 inch size I want to use is not a common item. 12 inch and 16 inch are common tho -
Thomas
I resorted to consulting with a shopping expert ----- that being my spousal unit.
It took her almost 2 nanoseconds to say the crafts section at WalMart!
Go Figure
Parts should be here in about a week - located a local source for Sonotube - which was more difficult than I thought and I finally wound up calling Sonotube to get hold of a local distributer. The 14 inch size I want to use is not a common item. 12 inch and 16 inch are common tho -
Thomas
R Jamm
I have my materials on order and slated to arrive next week - around 2 April. I'm using Heil AMT2 tweeters so my construction is going to be a bit different than the original mamboni design. I'm also aiming at a tweeter height of 36 inches so I have switched to 14" Sonotube with a 28 inch height. This was discussed in some earlier threads. Because Sonotube comes in 12 ft. lengths I'm going to have enough for 4 tubes to play around with - as well as an extra Pioneer speaker. I'll be trying a few different test configurations - one original speaker via mamboni method - but using the Heil tweeter - perhaps to be replaced by a B&G NEO 8 at a later date. I'll try the B&G because people can still purchase that tweeter for a reasonable cost and the Heils can only be had by ordering them from Germany - at around $600.00 each. On the base units I'm going to make one as specified by mamboni and stuff it to around 50% with acoustastuff. Another one I want to try is what the Sonotube sub-woofer builders do with some dampening of the walls with auto-body undercoat and batting around the inside of the tube plus some acoustastuff - filled to taste. The 1st Pioneer 10 inch unit will receive the mamboni treatment only and the second will be a combo of mamboni triangles on the inside of the cone and Bud P's EnABL pattern on the cone outside (rear of the speaker - basket side) both on the top near the VC and on the bottom near the surround. I'm also considering an EnABLE pattern around the circumference of the Pioneer's baffle but I need to consult with BudP on this as it places the pattern in the horizontal plane and I'm not sure if that will lead to problems or not. But what the heck - it's an extra tube and it might be fun to try it out just for the fun of it.
I have some material on order that BudP and I want to try out before we report on it. I don't mean to be keeping anything a big secret
- I'm just trying to keep from getting people all hot and bothered over something that might not work out. BudP's method is proven to work - as long as you have good eyes and steady hands. At my age I'm afraid that neither my eyesight or steadiness of hand are what they used to be - so I'm motivated to develop an easy to do method - if possible. Seeing as how we are both starting a build let's keep in touch with ideas and problems.
BTW - cash spent to date (not including tax or shipping) around $185.00 for two speakers. Still need to get some minor stuff - so looks like I'll be into around $200.00 or so -
and yes - I will post progress photo's and listening impressions.
Cheers
I have my materials on order and slated to arrive next week - around 2 April. I'm using Heil AMT2 tweeters so my construction is going to be a bit different than the original mamboni design. I'm also aiming at a tweeter height of 36 inches so I have switched to 14" Sonotube with a 28 inch height. This was discussed in some earlier threads. Because Sonotube comes in 12 ft. lengths I'm going to have enough for 4 tubes to play around with - as well as an extra Pioneer speaker. I'll be trying a few different test configurations - one original speaker via mamboni method - but using the Heil tweeter - perhaps to be replaced by a B&G NEO 8 at a later date. I'll try the B&G because people can still purchase that tweeter for a reasonable cost and the Heils can only be had by ordering them from Germany - at around $600.00 each. On the base units I'm going to make one as specified by mamboni and stuff it to around 50% with acoustastuff. Another one I want to try is what the Sonotube sub-woofer builders do with some dampening of the walls with auto-body undercoat and batting around the inside of the tube plus some acoustastuff - filled to taste. The 1st Pioneer 10 inch unit will receive the mamboni treatment only and the second will be a combo of mamboni triangles on the inside of the cone and Bud P's EnABL pattern on the cone outside (rear of the speaker - basket side) both on the top near the VC and on the bottom near the surround. I'm also considering an EnABLE pattern around the circumference of the Pioneer's baffle but I need to consult with BudP on this as it places the pattern in the horizontal plane and I'm not sure if that will lead to problems or not. But what the heck - it's an extra tube and it might be fun to try it out just for the fun of it.
I have some material on order that BudP and I want to try out before we report on it. I don't mean to be keeping anything a big secret
- I'm just trying to keep from getting people all hot and bothered over something that might not work out. BudP's method is proven to work - as long as you have good eyes and steady hands. At my age I'm afraid that neither my eyesight or steadiness of hand are what they used to be - so I'm motivated to develop an easy to do method - if possible. Seeing as how we are both starting a build let's keep in touch with ideas and problems.BTW - cash spent to date (not including tax or shipping) around $185.00 for two speakers. Still need to get some minor stuff - so looks like I'll be into around $200.00 or so -
and yes - I will post progress photo's and listening impressions.
Cheers
Most of my parts have arrived (but not all) and the 1st hunk of Sonotube has been cut. Pioneer 10 inch speakers are here and getting ready for the mamboni treatment.
Did a bit of a "dry fit" to check size of units - looks good for my target tweeter height of 36 inches plus or minus.
Photo of "ruff" dry fit.
Did a bit of a "dry fit" to check size of units - looks good for my target tweeter height of 36 inches plus or minus.
Photo of "ruff" dry fit.
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c2cthomas said:Most of my parts have arrived (but not all) and the 1st hunk of Sonotube has been cut. Pioneer 10 inch speakers are here and getting ready for the mamboni treatment.
Did a bit of a "dry fit" to check size of units - looks good for my target tweeter height of 36 inches plus or minus.
Photo of "ruff" dry fit.
Thomas:
Even as mockups, I love the look! the squat wide tube with the inverted woofer, tall ribbon tweeter and wide baffles gives it an avante garde look, like "Krell Loudspeakers" from outer space. Have you done any listening?
Hi Mamboni and BudP - and everyone else!
The "wide baffle" was just some scrap wood on which to place the Pioneer 10 inch for the 1st dry fit for sizing. The actual speaker will look like your Walsh 5 remakes - except that mine will have the Heil tweeter (in this version).
I'm cutting up felt for your Mamboni pattern right after I finish this post. BTW I'm using bright red felt so it shows up better in the assembly photo's - and I am taking photo's as I go. 
I did happen to see a certain distinguished person mention BudP's EnABL pattern in another thread - Yea for BudP!
Oh BudP - I have a copy of your patent on hand - and I'm moving at a deliberate and careful speed - remember - this is my 1st DIY speaker effort -
Gotta go "Mamboin" some speakers.:
The "wide baffle" was just some scrap wood on which to place the Pioneer 10 inch for the 1st dry fit for sizing. The actual speaker will look like your Walsh 5 remakes - except that mine will have the Heil tweeter (in this version).
I'm cutting up felt for your Mamboni pattern right after I finish this post. BTW I'm using bright red felt
so it shows up better in the assembly photo's - and I am taking photo's as I go. I did happen to see a certain distinguished person mention BudP's EnABL pattern in another thread - Yea for BudP!
Oh BudP - I have a copy of your patent on hand - and I'm moving at a deliberate and careful speed - remember - this is my 1st DIY speaker effort -
Gotta go "Mamboin" some speakers.
:
Did not get as far as I wanted last night - it took a while to measure the Pioneer and determine the placement of the Mamboni triangles. For those interested - I measured on the inside of the mounting bracket circumference and came up with 6 centimeters for triangle centers on this make and model of particular speaker. I have applied the triangles as per the Mamboni design. I have some other ideas as to size and placement - but the good Doctor M has already played with several versions of his design so I'm not going to screw around at this point. Things are already complex enough with the combination of the Mamboni design and the next unit which will use this as well as BudP's EnABL pattern on the "backside" of the speaker cone. Of course because we are using a Walsh type of transducer the "backside" winds up being used as the "radiating side" when assembled - so when I say "backside" I am referring to the cone surface facing the speaker basket. 
Going to dissect the speaker dome today after running my spousal unit to Huntsville. So the bad news is that I'll be gone for several hours. The good news is that I'll be alone and free to "play" all I want for a couple of days.
Photo of last nights progress - the second speaker should take much less time to do now that I have gone through the learning curve.
Going to dissect the speaker dome today after running my spousal unit to Huntsville. So the bad news is that I'll be gone for several hours. The good news is that I'll be alone and free to "play" all I want for a couple of days.
Photo of last nights progress - the second speaker should take much less time to do now that I have gone through the learning curve.
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photo of how I made my measurements for the Mamboni triangles. Using inches came out sort of odd so I switched over to cm/mm's and it works out nicely at 6 cm per division. I considered using an odd number of triangles so I could tell my friends that I have and "odd" speaker - and then watch their eyes glaze over as I explained just exactly why! 
BTW - use of a cloth type tape works well for this measurement. My trusty Stanly 25 ft. metal tape I use around the house just didn't get the job done - no cm's on it!!
BTW - use of a cloth type tape works well for this measurement. My trusty Stanly 25 ft. metal tape I use around the house just didn't get the job done - no cm's on it!!
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Mamboni -
In your drawing for the variovent you speck a 3/4 inch circular cutout of the speaker dome covered with 3 layers of felt. In post #38 you mention that the cutout for the vent is 1/2 inch. I'm at a bit of a loss - can you clear this up? Also - what are the diameters would you speck for the three layers of felt? Your drawing looks like 1 1/4 inch, 1 1/2 inch, 1 3/4 inch, diameters were used - would this be correct - or would these work?
In your drawing for the variovent you speck a 3/4 inch circular cutout of the speaker dome covered with 3 layers of felt. In post #38 you mention that the cutout for the vent is 1/2 inch. I'm at a bit of a loss - can you clear this up? Also - what are the diameters would you speck for the three layers of felt? Your drawing looks like 1 1/4 inch, 1 1/2 inch, 1 3/4 inch, diameters were used - would this be correct - or would these work?
Well - need to press on and get some things done - so jumping right in with the Mamboni mod's to the Pioneer 10 inch as specked in his drawings. BudP is a jumping up and down (in a good way) for me to finish my speakers and do some listening test. 
I have to mod speaker #2 and prep it for the BudP's EnABL pattern, cut up another hunk of Sonotube and then carve up some MDF for the end caps and center brace. OH YEAH - WE'RE HAVING FUN NOW!!!
photo of 1st speaker with Mamboni magic!!
I have to mod speaker #2 and prep it for the BudP's EnABL pattern, cut up another hunk of Sonotube and then carve up some MDF for the end caps and center brace. OH YEAH - WE'RE HAVING FUN NOW!!!
photo of 1st speaker with Mamboni magic!!
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Here's My Two Cents
Hey, Mr. Mamboni, here's a variant of the Mamboni Mod you might want to try:
Why not make the triangular felt strips different sizes? Specifically, I'd try 2 or 3 different sizes, ratioed in the Golden Section 1:1.618:2.618 ratios.
I'd also limit the biggest size triangles to no more than 3 or 5 pieces, and would avoid have the big ones in 4, 6, 8, or even numbers. This helps the cone avoid the symmetric breakup modes, while maintaining a degree of cone rigidity.
Hey, Mr. Mamboni, here's a variant of the Mamboni Mod you might want to try:
Why not make the triangular felt strips different sizes? Specifically, I'd try 2 or 3 different sizes, ratioed in the Golden Section 1:1.618:2.618 ratios.
I'd also limit the biggest size triangles to no more than 3 or 5 pieces, and would avoid have the big ones in 4, 6, 8, or even numbers. This helps the cone avoid the symmetric breakup modes, while maintaining a degree of cone rigidity.
c2cthomas said:Well - need to press on and get some things done - so jumping right in with the Mamboni mod's to the Pioneer 10 inch as specked in his drawings. BudP is a jumping up and down (in a good way) for me to finish my speakers and do some listening test.
I have to mod speaker #2 and prep it for the BudP's EnABL pattern, cut up another hunk of Sonotube and then carve up some MDF for the end caps and center brace. OH YEAH - WE'RE HAVING FUN NOW!!!
photo of 1st speaker with Mamboni magic!!
The size of the vent is not precise. I used 3/4 " dia. hole. The felt pieces, three in all, are large enough to cover the vent and have about 1/2" to 3/4" felt around the opeinig. So, the felt circles were about 1 3/4" inch diameter. The photo of the finished driver looks fantastic - very clean and uniform work.
Sure, different size triangles would spread the resononce modes more and could sound better - experimentation is good. I am anxious to hear yor impressions of the modified drivers with tweeter. Are you clear on the wiring?
Hi Mamboni!
I used your 1.5 inch sized equilateral triangles and varied the size of the felt pieces used on the dome assembly @ 1.75, 1.50, and 1.25 inches.
I assumed the hook up was going straight to the woofer + to + and - to - , and then from the + side of the woofer through the cap and 4 ohm resistor in series to the + side of the tweeter. Correct?
I'm working on an "Olsen" variation of your theme but I am concerned with edge reflection so I'm going to include BudP's EnABL pattern as well. The attached example uses "Golden Section" ( Fibonacci) section triangles and I have those placed - will add EnABL after I post.
I believe that your triangles serve as a torsion mechanism that damps the major cone flexing with a variable degree of mechanical resistance vs. frequency and that BudP's EnABL will act as a "trap" on frequencies reflected from the speaker edge by setting up an mechanical interference on the cone surface. Should be interesting!!
Glad I purchased an extra speaker to mess around with!
I used your 1.5 inch sized equilateral triangles and varied the size of the felt pieces used on the dome assembly @ 1.75, 1.50, and 1.25 inches.
I assumed the hook up was going straight to the woofer + to + and - to - , and then from the + side of the woofer through the cap and 4 ohm resistor in series to the + side of the tweeter. Correct?
I'm working on an "Olsen" variation of your theme but I am concerned with edge reflection so I'm going to include BudP's EnABL pattern as well. The attached example uses "Golden Section" ( Fibonacci) section triangles and I have those placed - will add EnABL after I post.
I believe that your triangles serve as a torsion mechanism that damps the major cone flexing with a variable degree of mechanical resistance vs. frequency and that BudP's EnABL will act as a "trap" on frequencies reflected from the speaker edge by setting up an mechanical interference on the cone surface. Should be interesting!!
Glad I purchased an extra speaker to mess around with!
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microwalsh8504 said:Hello DIYers,
Another question is, has anyone tried to replicate there landmark speaker the Walsh F?
I was wondering if anyone was able to replicate this unusual design and make a speaker using the WALSH technology.
Thanks.
my first thought on seeing this-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=99138&perpage=10&pagenumber=1
GRollins said:
6298
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