I have EnABL patterned the Linaeum / Radio Shack drivers. I have 40 of them too...... You would also need two of the Panasonic half can piezo film tweeters. They still show up on ebay often and I have a few pair. Used with the Linnaeum, on a capacitor slant of about 0.47 mfd they add the, above 13k range, that the Linnaeums don't have much of. Truely one of the best tweeter systems ever and with a Walsh style cone and a well developed series cross over, would be a formidable speaker system.
For the AMT's, they are already so good that just treating their emitting face plate should suffice. Even the treatment needed for the Linnaeum's are just across the short ends of each leaf and the half cans just along the termination edges.
Bud
For the AMT's, they are already so good that just treating their emitting face plate should suffice. Even the treatment needed for the Linnaeum's are just across the short ends of each leaf and the half cans just along the termination edges.
Bud
Darn it Bud - Ya let the cat out of da bag!! I was gonna see if Spikedart would go for carefully painting on your little EnALB squares onto each pleat of the AMT's - BOTH SIDES!!!!
good to see you again, Thomas
Listen, Bud has already challenged me to enabl one of my walsh 1 pairs, inside and out. AMT pleats are out of the question. Besides, the backs are closed off to make them monopoles. I have a subwoofer I built years ago that will most likely be my first pattern attempt, it's the one in the middle of my newer OW1 pairs in the pic. Realistic dual VC 6 1/2" driver tuned way down to an honest -3db 43Hz. Tests found it to have a primary resonance way lower than claimed. It crosses over to the walshes at 125Hz, 6 db slope and they are turned in, tweeters straight at ya with tufflex sides facing each other for near field listening. Tiny office, really excellent sound. The tiny sub really rumbles your butt. Perhaps with Bud's treatment....
Bud, the little mono heils need a paint job anyway and they would probably look good with the dots. Any idea on the pattern? concentric or rectangular, following the lens shape?
Thomas told me some time back that getting a pair of (dipole) linneaum's out of your hands might be a bit difficult. Any chance a pair might be sold to someone who would use them well? Mine left my possession back in '98 or so.
Darn it Bud - Ya let the cat out of da bag!! I was gonna see if Spikedart would go for carefully painting on your little EnALB squares onto each pleat of the AMT's - BOTH SIDES!!!!
Listen, Bud has already challenged me to enabl one of my walsh 1 pairs, inside and out. AMT pleats are out of the question. Besides, the backs are closed off to make them monopoles. I have a subwoofer I built years ago that will most likely be my first pattern attempt, it's the one in the middle of my newer OW1 pairs in the pic. Realistic dual VC 6 1/2" driver tuned way down to an honest -3db 43Hz. Tests found it to have a primary resonance way lower than claimed. It crosses over to the walshes at 125Hz, 6 db slope and they are turned in, tweeters straight at ya with tufflex sides facing each other for near field listening. Tiny office, really excellent sound. The tiny sub really rumbles your butt. Perhaps with Bud's treatment....
Bud, the little mono heils need a paint job anyway and they would probably look good with the dots. Any idea on the pattern? concentric or rectangular, following the lens shape?
Thomas told me some time back that getting a pair of (dipole) linneaum's out of your hands might be a bit difficult. Any chance a pair might be sold to someone who would use them well? Mine left my possession back in '98 or so.
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PM me and we can argue over what they are worth. Treating them is a bit of an ordeal, as you have to disassemble the leaf end clamp plates, by drilling out the tiny pins. Then reassembly needs wire of the right diameter to make new pins. Not hard, just tedious and you really do want to pattern both sides of all four leaves.
Once you treat the domes and the walsh style woofers you can throw away all of the can internal damping and you will usually end up without the cans on either, just the box tops and open drivers. They really are a treat done like this and wall reflections are not of any concern as far as messing up the presentation. And then there is the 50 mile deep sound field. I have done two pairs of Walsh 2's and both are still with their original owners.
Think of the mounting plate as an equivalent circle in circumference. Then take the boilerplate application pattern rings and % to the correct size as you print out the pattern rings. I have attached three choices
in PDF format below.
Bud
Once you treat the domes and the walsh style woofers you can throw away all of the can internal damping and you will usually end up without the cans on either, just the box tops and open drivers. They really are a treat done like this and wall reflections are not of any concern as far as messing up the presentation. And then there is the 50 mile deep sound field. I have done two pairs of Walsh 2's and both are still with their original owners.
Think of the mounting plate as an equivalent circle in circumference. Then take the boilerplate application pattern rings and % to the correct size as you print out the pattern rings. I have attached three choices
in PDF format below.
Bud
Juz fun'n with Ya
At least you didn't get the milk'n da bull or sneak up behind the horse test!
Thanks Bud
Thomas I knew you were just messing with me. If I rip open my Walsh 1 I will be tempted to replace the cone tweet with a better replacement. I have some vacation coming at the end of the year. That might be a good time to at least treat the little sub.
Thanks!
P.S. I'll send the tufflex back to Ohm. Can't get the stuff any more and I am sure they will appreciate it!
Thomas I knew you were just messing with me. If I rip open my Walsh 1 I will be tempted to replace the cone tweet with a better replacement. I have some vacation coming at the end of the year. That might be a good time to at least treat the little sub.
Thanks!
P.S. I'll send the tufflex back to Ohm. Can't get the stuff any more and I am sure they will appreciate it!
Hard to find a lot of information on Ohm F's. Glad I found this forum.
Has anyone condsidered building their own Ohm F cabinets and then puchasing the Ohm 5000 drivers from Ohm?
I don't know how difficult it is to find some old Ohm F cabinets with drivers that have fallen apart, but that would probably be a good thing to do.
Norm
Has anyone condsidered building their own Ohm F cabinets and then puchasing the Ohm 5000 drivers from Ohm?
I don't know how difficult it is to find some old Ohm F cabinets with drivers that have fallen apart, but that would probably be a good thing to do.
Norm
Hmmmm........ my guess is that the old photo's got dumped into the bit bucket when the server was upgraded.
Here are some pic's of my 10 inch Pioneers with Dr. Mamboni's felt triangle treatment.
BTW- BudP had some bits and pieces of Walsh things around - he might still have some stuff but it has been quite awhile. Also be aware that this thread helped to get Bud's EnABL pattern some discussion which then moved over to some other threads that he started. I'll be glad to help out if I can - but I don't intend, nor desire, to hi-jack the thread.
Here are some pic's of my 10 inch Pioneers with Dr. Mamboni's felt triangle treatment.
BTW- BudP had some bits and pieces of Walsh things around - he might still have some stuff but it has been quite awhile. Also be aware that this thread helped to get Bud's EnABL pattern some discussion which then moved over to some other threads that he started. I'll be glad to help out if I can - but I don't intend, nor desire, to hi-jack the thread.
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Thanks c2c. I've read most if not all of this thread. Then I went over and read a lot of the stuff chinese had done with cone designs.
Thanks for the pictures, I had read about the magic triangles, but didn't understand what they were until I saw the photos you took.
Could MDF "square" cabinets be used in place of the round tube cabinets? Is volume the only consideration?
Is Budp still around here? I get the idea that mamboi is not.
Kind of a problem coming in late to something like this.
Thanks for the pictures, I had read about the magic triangles, but didn't understand what they were until I saw the photos you took.
Could MDF "square" cabinets be used in place of the round tube cabinets? Is volume the only consideration?
Is Budp still around here? I get the idea that mamboi is not.
Kind of a problem coming in late to something like this.
c2c,
Please let me know if we should start a new thread so as not to HiJack this one. However, my intention is to understand the topics covered herein.
For example, you evidently chose to utilize a different style tweeter than was originally proposed. Did that work well?
Also, do know if anyone chose to use the EnABL technique rather than the felt squares?
You also indicated that your decision to shorten the enclosures didn't work as well as you had expected. Do you know why?
Please let me know if we should start a new thread so as not to HiJack this one. However, my intention is to understand the topics covered herein.
For example, you evidently chose to utilize a different style tweeter than was originally proposed. Did that work well?
Also, do know if anyone chose to use the EnABL technique rather than the felt squares?
You also indicated that your decision to shorten the enclosures didn't work as well as you had expected. Do you know why?
"Square" cabs should work fine - in fact Heil Speakers used 'em for their speakers Untitled Document
BudP is still around - search "EnABL" threads.
Dr. Mamboni is da guy that has the answers to his "magic triangles" - although he discusses the concept early on in the thread. Keep in mind that he addresses the use of the 10 inch Pioneer speaker and I'm not sure how well they would work on other speaker drivers.
The shorter enclosures worked - just not as well as the taller ones. I'm sure that this had more to do with volume rather than height. If I remember the volume was should be 25L - but go back to the start of the thread to be sure. The speakers with more volume had an fuller and smoother sound to them compared to the smaller one's. It would be difficult to spot unless you could compare the two side by side tho.
The tweeter I used was an ESS AMT1 and properly used is a classic high end mid-tweet. Very clean - dipole design which ties into the "omni" design of these speakers well. I would suggest using a similar dipole tweeter and in this application I personally prefer the AMT (Air Motion Transformer) design. B&G makes the Neo-3 and Neo-8 without the back cups http://www.parts-express.com/pe/sho...713&vReviewShow=1&vReviewRand=4031788#reviews and they are full dipoles so I would consider using them. The ESS AMT's are available again over at Parts Express here in USA - but I'm unsure of availability outside of US.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-600We all have our own desires and needs to be met and your taste in speakers should be your guide. I have friends that simply "hate" omni style speakers and much prefer the more traditional monitor style. I'm looking at going OB via Stig Eriks Bema thread - but that is a whole other story. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/142015-my-open-baffle-dipole-beyma-tpl-150-a-56.html
You might want to look at the "pencil" thread for a different version of this type of omni design. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/112904-pencil-inspired-ohm-micro-walsh-tall-8.html
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Thanks c2c. I'm not sure which guy I am: Whether I prefer omni or not. I do know that I really liked the Ohm F's I heard long ago. And I currently have direct radiating speakers and I don't necessarily like them - not sure if that is because they are direct radiating or because of the speaker-amplifier arrangement.... Or my hearing(?)
I will look at the components you cited. Do you know whether it is necessary to use the round enclosure as opposed to perhaps an MDF style enclosure? For example you use an MDF enclosure that has the same height and the same distance between sides internally as the tube has? Or would that be too much volume?
Also curious: Have you had the opportunity to compare the sound of your speakers with any of the Ohm speakers?
I will look at the components you cited. Do you know whether it is necessary to use the round enclosure as opposed to perhaps an MDF style enclosure? For example you use an MDF enclosure that has the same height and the same distance between sides internally as the tube has? Or would that be too much volume?
Also curious: Have you had the opportunity to compare the sound of your speakers with any of the Ohm speakers?
Hi Norman - Omni vs. direct is an old and worn discussion and guaranteed to get you into many long debates as to plus and minus of each. If I'm using my speakers for HT - general listening things I prefer the omni's. If I'm mixing in a studio then it would be monitors and - or a good set of headphones. Really critical listening would tilt towards the direct radiator type but that gets into some other long debates - none of which really lead anywhere or perhaps everywhere.
Bottom line - it primarily depends on your intended use and physical listening space. Then one must consider room treatment(s) because effective room treatment can result in as much as a 100% improvement in system performance and that can save you a bunch of $$$ on amps and speakers. After all - you can have the best amps and speakers in the world and if you put them into a room that sounds like a coffee can guess what they will wind up sounding like?
The good thing about the Walsh 5 remakes is 1) it's an easy build 2) if ya don't like 'em you can reuse the parts. If you used the B&G's and a mid woofer that goes to 6-7kHz you are there. Again - check the pencil thread for ideas as well. Decware has some nice ideas as well http://www.decware.com/newsite/speakers.html take a look at this one http://www.decware.com/newsite/Radials.htm
Using MDF (I prefer using plywood) should work - just try to keep them as small as you can in regards to depth and width and still hit 25L volume. In fact the square shape might work better than the round tube - but make sure you are bracing things up well inside.
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I've re-read most of the this thread, then read the pencil thread. (need to take a break). Very interesting designs.
The volume required seems to be 2.4 cu feet rather than 25L. I was thinking perhaps 11" x 11" x 35" inside dimensions. That yields 2.4 cu ft.
I thought I had read something the first time through about the felt conversion to the center cap. Do you think that is on this thread?
Also, did you ever try the EnABL painting on the backside of the driver?
The volume required seems to be 2.4 cu feet rather than 25L. I was thinking perhaps 11" x 11" x 35" inside dimensions. That yields 2.4 cu ft.
I thought I had read something the first time through about the felt conversion to the center cap. Do you think that is on this thread?
Also, did you ever try the EnABL painting on the backside of the driver?
You should consider going 12in x 12 in x 35in for 2.9 cu. ft. (82.6 liters) to allow for some loss due to internal bracing. I think the extra volume will help with a bit fuller sound - and it sure won't hurt.
I did the EnABL on one of the cones to compare the untreated cone with and didn't notice any real advantage. I think that the Mamboni triangles pretty much overrode the effect. EnABLE did tame my Fostex 167's tho.
The felt cap is on this thread - see post #33
Yes! Post 33. I assume you cut the hole with an x-acto blade. While I haven't found dimensions for the triangles, I assume I could just estimate from the way they lie in your speakers. Perhaps not real critical. I read the felt is just standard stuff.
One thing I was wondering... I was just looking at tweeters. I know you used a different one than was specified. But, if you used a shield enclosed tweeter.... Why not mount it in the side of the cabinet at the top? Would it make a difference whether it mounted just below the main speaker rather than just above it? The whole thing might look a little better. Of course, I don't understand why Ohm didn't do that as well. Must be a reason (?). It would seem that would have helped you, rather than tilt the cabinet or to cut it shorter...
One thing I was wondering... I was just looking at tweeters. I know you used a different one than was specified. But, if you used a shield enclosed tweeter.... Why not mount it in the side of the cabinet at the top? Would it make a difference whether it mounted just below the main speaker rather than just above it? The whole thing might look a little better. Of course, I don't understand why Ohm didn't do that as well. Must be a reason (?). It would seem that would have helped you, rather than tilt the cabinet or to cut it shorter...
Hi Norman - I was going back over things and rand WinISD LinearTeam for the Pioneer W25GR31 and it came up with a 2.7 cu. ft. box tuned to 30 hz if you use a 4 inch diameter by 9 inch long vent - so maybe a bit more of a bottom end - but perhaps trading off smoothness. I would stick with Mamboni's variovent scheme by cutting the hole into the center of the woofer dust cap and then covering with 3 felt cloth disk (glued around the outside - leave the center free from adhesive so it can pass air) and an x-acto knife with a sharp point is the tool I used for that operation.
Regarding the tweeter placement - Mamboni addresses that around post #38 and chose to place it on top of the woofer and centered to account for time alignment. Also note that he has the tweeter and woofer wired + to + and - to - to address speaker phase. I strongly suggest that you don't mess around with this - at least not for your 1st build.
I was going to upload some photo's but something seems to be wrong with the server at the moment - when I click "manage Attachments" nothing happens. I'll send the server crew an email to give 'em a heads up and see if they can get things back up to speed.
Regarding the tweeter placement - Mamboni addresses that around post #38 and chose to place it on top of the woofer and centered to account for time alignment. Also note that he has the tweeter and woofer wired + to + and - to - to address speaker phase. I strongly suggest that you don't mess around with this - at least not for your 1st build.
I was going to upload some photo's but something seems to be wrong with the server at the moment - when I click "manage Attachments" nothing happens. I'll send the server crew an email to give 'em a heads up and see if they can get things back up to speed.
