Model implemented:
It will be painted black together with the part of the base mounting that now is visible. A top piece is still missing (and the right baffle).
I had to cut out a piece at the bottom of the side baffle to let the base mounting go free.
Anyway, soon time for listening and measurements.
If I´m not satified, it's easy to swap to the old straight baffles; it's only some gaffa tape pieces from the element´s frames to the baffles that are used for mounting.
It will be painted black together with the part of the base mounting that now is visible. A top piece is still missing (and the right baffle).
I had to cut out a piece at the bottom of the side baffle to let the base mounting go free.
Anyway, soon time for listening and measurements.
If I´m not satified, it's easy to swap to the old straight baffles; it's only some gaffa tape pieces from the element´s frames to the baffles that are used for mounting.
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The best way to reduce vibrations and make sure the remaining vibrations are not creating problems, is to suspend the whole speaker. The best method is to hang it in wires from the ceiling. The next best to float in on very soft suspension between the speaker and the floor.
I use the first method on my main dipoles (B&G RD-75 ribbons), and the second for the bass towers. Suspension is simple: small tire tubes with moderate air pressure.
I use the first method on my main dipoles (B&G RD-75 ribbons), and the second for the bass towers. Suspension is simple: small tire tubes with moderate air pressure.
Simulated the different baffles using Edge.
The straight baffle:
Single curved baffle:
Double curved baffle but simulated for only diffraction:
More evenly spread diffraction than single curved.
Double curve baffle simulated for only dipole cancellation:
Gained a couple of dBs.
I currently cut at 300 Hz with a 24 dB slope.
The straight baffle:
Single curved baffle:
Double curved baffle but simulated for only diffraction:
More evenly spread diffraction than single curved.
Double curve baffle simulated for only dipole cancellation:
Gained a couple of dBs.
I currently cut at 300 Hz with a 24 dB slope.
WOW!!!
6 TD15H's in one build!!!!
Overkill? Most probably, but such an insane project, it's worth it
Great work...
One question, If, as you say, you listen at relatively low levels and have so much x-max in reserve, why not consider going with a completely baffle-less system and be done with diffraction (or any coloration for that matter)?
Regards
Nick
6 TD15H's in one build!!!!
Overkill? Most probably, but such an insane project, it's worth it
Great work...
One question, If, as you say, you listen at relatively low levels and have so much x-max in reserve, why not consider going with a completely baffle-less system and be done with diffraction (or any coloration for that matter)?
Regards
Nick
Diffraction will be much worse with a baffle-less system..... and you need all the help you can in the low end, so a baffle is a good idea. The main reason is to avoid too much EQ and distortion. I have tried "naked" woofers, and it does not sound free from colouration because you will get too much harmonic distortion.
Well, I don't have any exotic and expensive filter components and the speaker cords are home made. Expensive speaker setup? No, I don't think so.WOW!!!
6 TD15H's in one build!!!!
Overkill? Most probably, but such an insane project, it's worth it
I agree with Stig-Erik, the intermodulation products of the cancellation compensation and the baffle step compensation must be a complete turmoil.
Also, there's a limit to what even the TD15H can do without distortion and power compression.
Here's what Edge says about it:
Almost 20 dB compensation from 300 Hz to 20 Hz is a lot more compared to the 12 dB in the double curved baffle.
True!! (note to self: Proofread!!!!)
@Solhaga,
Concerning the baffle-less option, I admit I had expected the TD15's to perform better, as I once ran a rather promising baffle-less model on edge, but now that I think about it, it must have been the 18 inchers... My bad.
Good luck with the build!
Suppose if the TD15H has the performance, I don't have the power.
I only got one 45 W GC for each element, and 8 dB more would require 6.3 times more power (that's 284 non GC Watts) and then I would need heavier cables and ...
So there´s been some updates. I finally got the correct length of phase plugs for my Apollo TD15Hs.
I re-designed the baffles and built me some focused arrays comprising 16 EAD E60s aside.
Xover at 400 Hz, tremendous pressure from the bass drivers.
Vocals now have full body.
View from sweetspot:
I re-designed the baffles and built me some focused arrays comprising 16 EAD E60s aside.
Xover at 400 Hz, tremendous pressure from the bass drivers.
Vocals now have full body.
View from sweetspot:
Well done and very nice!
May I ask how you are applying eq required to compensate for the baffle rolloff effects?
I too am starting an OB build with 2x AE Dipole18 per side. Was hoping to run them to 200-300hz. Hopefully can get it to work well with a lot of experimentation and a bit of understanding.
Cheers!
May I ask how you are applying eq required to compensate for the baffle rolloff effects?
I too am starting an OB build with 2x AE Dipole18 per side. Was hoping to run them to 200-300hz. Hopefully can get it to work well with a lot of experimentation and a bit of understanding.
Cheers!
Why Apollo?
Hello,
Just wondering why you got the Apollo upgrade when you're only running the speakers at 1/20 the ~RMS~ power - assuming you're still using 25W per speakers? Generally the Apollo is for compensating for one driver doing the work of two, and so the increased power handling/heatsinking allows for less thermally compressed dynamics given the compromise of one driver over two...
Just wondering. I imagine a 3 way with the bottom 4 woofers substituted with IB15s would also be an improvement - although a 3 way will always be more complicated than a 2 way.
cheers,
-Tal
Hello,
Just wondering why you got the Apollo upgrade when you're only running the speakers at 1/20 the ~RMS~ power - assuming you're still using 25W per speakers? Generally the Apollo is for compensating for one driver doing the work of two, and so the increased power handling/heatsinking allows for less thermally compressed dynamics given the compromise of one driver over two...
Just wondering. I imagine a 3 way with the bottom 4 woofers substituted with IB15s would also be an improvement - although a 3 way will always be more complicated than a 2 way.
cheers,
-Tal
At the time I ordered the TDs I wasn't sure if I would keep them, so having the Apollo upgrade would make it easier to resell them or have them in another configuration.
Nor was I sure that the 45 W per woofer I got out of the GainClones would suffice for my needs.
But the power was enough and so was the low frequency response, I see no need of a three way system.
Besides I think that the control, with lower Qts of the TDs compared to the IBs, is more important for the sound reproduction quality than the IBs ability to produce low bas. 1 W SPL is also 3 dB higher with the TDs making the 45 W enough.
I also think that having three TDs aside actively driven by one GC each keeps the distortion at low levels.
Nor was I sure that the 45 W per woofer I got out of the GainClones would suffice for my needs.
But the power was enough and so was the low frequency response, I see no need of a three way system.
Besides I think that the control, with lower Qts of the TDs compared to the IBs, is more important for the sound reproduction quality than the IBs ability to produce low bas. 1 W SPL is also 3 dB higher with the TDs making the 45 W enough.
I also think that having three TDs aside actively driven by one GC each keeps the distortion at low levels.
Paint it black
Decided that the plywood was too bright, so I painted it black:
While at it, I sanded the phase plugs:
and sprayed them mate black:
and mounted them:
Had some wrong delivered phase plugs laying around, why not let them crawl the walls in order to add some diffraction::
I realize of course that they don´t have any effect, I simply had some holes in the wall that I needed covered.
Decided that the plywood was too bright, so I painted it black:
While at it, I sanded the phase plugs:
and sprayed them mate black:
and mounted them:
Had some wrong delivered phase plugs laying around, why not let them crawl the walls in order to add some diffraction::
I realize of course that they don´t have any effect, I simply had some holes in the wall that I needed covered.
Thanks, it looks interesting.
Are you pleased with the results?
I like the Beyma TPL when crossed over around 1,500Hz.
Is your AMT able to match the TPL's top end?
Last question, in the 250Hz to 1,500Hz band can you let me know what your reference divers are? ie what is the best cone(s) drivers you have compared it to?
Thanks again and all the best
Derek.
Are you pleased with the results?
I like the Beyma TPL when crossed over around 1,500Hz.
Is your AMT able to match the TPL's top end?
Last question, in the 250Hz to 1,500Hz band can you let me know what your reference divers are? ie what is the best cone(s) drivers you have compared it to?
Thanks again and all the best
Derek.
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