Cool! You should look into HOLMIpulse (it's free) and ARTA (demo is free). Great software that can tell you a lot. Visual Analyzer is another free software that is great for measurements. With those and some crossover spreadsheets you should be able to put together a nice crossover with the miniDSP.
Thanks - even though I already have a more wife friendly baffle planned to use with the mid and horn. Against pretty much all people's recommendations, I will be putting all drivers on the same baffle (for now). I'm still working on it. The new baffle won't be much smaller (20"). The smaller baffle behind the 21s will give the whole thing a much slimmer look - and a much greater WAF
.While they do have a low Qts, their fs is relatively low at ~26Hz. Not too bad for OB (not that you said they'd be bad for OB) - Linkwitz's Orions drivers have a Qts of 0.20. I don't have the means to do actual measurements on these unless someone is willing to let me borrow their equipment. Also, going with a back loaded horn is out of the question - the space required just isn't available.
I'll have a look at those. I'm still trying to avoid going the miniDSP route with additional amps, but it would give me the most flexibility to come up with a good passive xover at a later time. I'll consider it.
Also - that's for the heads up about the other software available.
Here's the new baffle layout. I'm planing on 3 layers (2 1/4" total thickness) - one part MDF, two parts hardwood ply. The 21s will be front mounted and the 10 behind the first layer. The support for the baffle isn't drawn in as I'm still working on it a little bit. The wife approves though .
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Definitely not sure on the height. (Although I do think it looks intimidating!). Has me just a little worried actually. I was thinking about moving the second woofer higher, but not sure how much low end I would lose. What about putting a downward angle on the tweeter and possible the mid? Still not ideal though.
Does a horn normally need a baffle? A small ring at minimum? I'm a complete newb to horns so please elaborate if you could. I was under the impression you could use horns w/o baffles - then again I guess the only one I've seen without have had a nice roundover integrated...
Does a horn normally need a baffle? A small ring at minimum? I'm a complete newb to horns so please elaborate if you could.
I was under the impression you could use horns w/o baffles - then again I guess the only one I've seen without have had a nice roundover integrated...
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Hi
How about mounting the two 21'' drivers in a v-shaped open-baffle. Then the woofers can be mounted in a push-pull arrangement that will further lower distortion. To get an idea of what I'm talking about, go to the GR Research website and have a look at their OB Sub design. The bottom driver points up at 45-degrees relative to the gound, the upper one points down at 45-degrees to the ground. The two baffles meet at a 90-degree angle.
One of the other advantages (and the main reason I am suggesting this) is that the total height for the baffle of the subs will be much lower. At the moment the part of the baffle for the subs will itself will be around 44-inches tall. In the suggested v-shaped baffle layout, for two sub-baffles of 24-inches, the total height of the subwoofer baffle will only be 34-inches. Further advantes are lower bass extention (due to the added side-baffle), as well as the lowered distortion (due to the drivers being mounted in the p-p format). I think this would probably be the best solution, as long as the crossover point between the subs and the mid is not too high. Hope this helps.
Enjoy,
Deon
How about mounting the two 21'' drivers in a v-shaped open-baffle. Then the woofers can be mounted in a push-pull arrangement that will further lower distortion. To get an idea of what I'm talking about, go to the GR Research website and have a look at their OB Sub design. The bottom driver points up at 45-degrees relative to the gound, the upper one points down at 45-degrees to the ground. The two baffles meet at a 90-degree angle.
One of the other advantages (and the main reason I am suggesting this) is that the total height for the baffle of the subs will be much lower. At the moment the part of the baffle for the subs will itself will be around 44-inches tall. In the suggested v-shaped baffle layout, for two sub-baffles of 24-inches, the total height of the subwoofer baffle will only be 34-inches. Further advantes are lower bass extention (due to the added side-baffle), as well as the lowered distortion (due to the drivers being mounted in the p-p format). I think this would probably be the best solution, as long as the crossover point between the subs and the mid is not too high. Hope this helps.
Enjoy,
Deon
PS. Forgot to add. According to Lukasz Fikus, a man who has experimented a lot with open-baffles, a Qts of around 0.4 is still very usable for open-baffle bass. Do a Google search on his name and have a look at his projects (around 26 in all). It makes for very interesting reading.
Enjoy,
Deon
Enjoy,
Deon
That is very good suggestion for the sub, there are also other possible arrangements (ripol, etc..).
OS12 waveguide is designed to be flush mounted in the baffle to minimize diffraction from its sharp edges. I would make the baffle as narrow as possible but with at least 1" roundover. Also I would use the same (narrow) width baffle for mid, to push its dipole peak higher. similar to this: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/195870-el-cuerno.html .
OS12 waveguide is designed to be flush mounted in the baffle to minimize diffraction from its sharp edges. I would make the baffle as narrow as possible but with at least 1" roundover. Also I would use the same (narrow) width baffle for mid, to push its dipole peak higher. similar to this: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/195870-el-cuerno.html .
Does a horn normally need a baffle? A small ring at minimum? I'm a complete newb to horns so please elaborate if you could.
The horn doesn't need a baffle and it looks like this.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/204444-photoshoot-ob-mk1-least-they-sound-good-4.html
Thank you for your suggestion Deon. I've also considered this and love the fact of less distortion, however I don't have enough room to the back of the speaker :/. With 45 degrees, the new speaker would be at least 16in deep - which wouldn't be a problem if the baffle wasn't so wide.
Another option I was looking at for a while was keeping the woofers on their own baffle and moving them into the component rack that sits beside the tv (see my previous pictures). The best way to place them in there would be a W-frame arrangement - lower distortion + lower extension. I'll look into it some more.
Another option I was looking at for a while was keeping the woofers on their own baffle and moving them into the component rack that sits beside the tv (see my previous pictures). The best way to place them in there would be a W-frame arrangement - lower distortion + lower extension. I'll look into it some more.
Pleasure. OTOH, seeing as you don't have the depth, you do seem to have the needed width for an alternate suggestion: how about making a single, very wide baffle. If you make the baffle about 35'' wide (and about 43'' or 47'' tall - both these figures being non-divisible), with the 21'' woofers on the outer part of the baffle, and your mid and tweet next to them on the inner part of the baffle. One of the main advantages of such a wide baffle is a very low baffle-step frequency (about 130Hz for the suggested 35'' baffle). This might be low enough to cross over at the baffle-step freq, which will also maximize the high efficiency of the mid. Problem is that such a large baffle might have low WAF (but it seems that you have a very tolerant wife). If the WAF is too low, try decorating the large baffle in some way to help it disappear of blend in visually- time to let your, or your wife's, inner artist to come to the fore. I would however VERY(!) strongly suggest you eNable treat such a wide baffle (do a search on the forum on the term eNable- there is a lot of info). This will help the baffle 'disappear' sonically.
Enjoy,
Deon
OTOH, seeing as you don't have the depth, you do seem to have the needed width for an alternate suggestion: how about making a single, very wide baffle. If you make the baffle about 35'' wide (and about 43'' or 47'' tall - both these figures being non-divisible), with the 21'' woofers on the outer part of the baffle, and your mid and tweet next to them on the inner part of the baffle. One of the main advantages of such a wide baffle is a very low baffle-step frequency (about 130Hz for the suggested 35'' baffle). This might be low enough to cross over at the baffle-step freq, which will also maximize the high efficiency of the mid. Problem is that such a large baffle might have low WAF (but it seems that you have a very tolerant wife). If the WAF is too low, try decorating the large baffle in some way to help it disappear of blend in visually- time to let your, or your wife's, inner artist to come to the fore. I would however VERY(!) strongly suggest you eNable treat such a wide baffle (do a search on the forum on the term eNable- there is a lot of info). This will help the baffle 'disappear' sonically.Enjoy,
Deon
Hi Sumac
I was kinda wondering the same thing, but I suspect that there is enough space if the baffle is flat, but if it extends about 20'' back, the space behind the speakers might be too little. OTOH, will a few DIY bass traps and acoustic diffusers behind the speakers not possible help with limited space? I don't know, so I throw that open to the more experienced on the forum.
Enjoy,
Deon
I was kinda wondering the same thing, but I suspect that there is enough space if the baffle is flat, but if it extends about 20'' back, the space behind the speakers might be too little. OTOH, will a few DIY bass traps and acoustic diffusers behind the speakers not possible help with limited space? I don't know, so I throw that open to the more experienced on the forum.
Enjoy,
Deon
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