Since there's no one else replying; No, I have not seen any.
As a side note changed the xo frequencies of the setup again, now the 15-300tc has a hp at 140hz, the double 15-400 "subs" have lp at 1khz. Most of the wonky bits in the 100hz to 1khz is now gone. Thanks to bwaslo for xsim!
Gonna have to do something about the surface treatment now, so much stuff happening it's hard to make time for it...
As a side note changed the xo frequencies of the setup again, now the 15-300tc has a hp at 140hz, the double 15-400 "subs" have lp at 1khz. Most of the wonky bits in the 100hz to 1khz is now gone. Thanks to bwaslo for xsim!
Gonna have to do something about the surface treatment now, so much stuff happening it's hard to make time for it...
From the Fane datasheet:
Rec. Enclosure Volume: 75 Ltr Closed box
is it based on a specific criteria or just a fair compromise between bass and enclosure dimensions?
Actually I have 150L boxes but consider building smaller ones.
WinISD tells that -3dB will be 70Hz (75L) instead of 60Hz (150L).
QTC will be greater and the "bump" at 100Hz.
In real life, is it clearly audible? or not that much?
Rec. Enclosure Volume: 75 Ltr Closed box
is it based on a specific criteria or just a fair compromise between bass and enclosure dimensions?
Actually I have 150L boxes but consider building smaller ones.
WinISD tells that -3dB will be 70Hz (75L) instead of 60Hz (150L).
QTC will be greater and the "bump" at 100Hz.
In real life, is it clearly audible? or not that much?
In the scheme of things due to the high Vas, Qts, both are so acoustically small relative to optimum that there's very little difference between them. Any audible difference will in theory only be due to the differing amounts of thermal power compression where the smaller cab might sound a little 'flatter' in the mid bass in a comparison if one is sensitive to it.
GM
GM
Sure! The pioneers designed for max acoustic efficiency, relying on [variable DF] tone controls to smooth them out and why when driven with a [very] low output impedance, extreme EQ is required.
FWIW, this many decades long Lansing/Altec studio monitor was nominally flat in room from ~32-15.5 kHz once EQ'd is a great example for back when 50-11 kHz defined 'HIFI' and as 'honest' a measurement is likely to be since RCA did it!: Valencia FR | GM210 | Flickr
GM
FWIW, this many decades long Lansing/Altec studio monitor was nominally flat in room from ~32-15.5 kHz once EQ'd is a great example for back when 50-11 kHz defined 'HIFI' and as 'honest' a measurement is likely to be since RCA did it!: Valencia FR | GM210 | Flickr
GM
these drivers are in the mail, will be fun to try in a week or two
Better late than never... new thread started here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/308652-15-range-fane-8.html#post5514924
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two posts moved to fabricadetabaco's new thread.
Thanks
The link two posts up got a bit wrong though
There has been some interest in harmonic distortion of the 150-300TC (previously FC152). Yesterday the kids watched some kids-show upstairs and played mario (IE not jumping around and screaming), and there where no meetings to attend etc.
So even if the noise floor is not optimal (not 100% quiet, a heat pump and computer fans closeby probably influence the measurements somewhat, in adittion to family noise sources being present), comparing the left and right channel in-room might give some indications.
I am currently experimenting with: NOT using any form of xo between the "subs" and the 15" fullranger, there is only the EQ settings in Voicemeeter Banana, EQ settings are identical for each channel.
Remember the speakers are measured in-room and very close to side walls, measurements are ca 110cm from cone, so variations are expected.
Here's the EQ settings from VM Banana:
Here's the SPL + distortion for left channel:
Here's the SPL + distortion for right channel:
Here's L+R SPL measurements on top of each other:
Smoothing is 1/12th oct, but there is not a huge amount of deviation on unsmoothed graphs, it just looks more tidy with 1/12th oct.
(I am just ridiculously happy with the bass response, hardly any eq at all and that smooth. I have found that tilting a downwards slope from low to high frequency gives a very bass heavy response, it's way too much, so prefer more flat curves when the setups digs this low, on my other not quite as bass capable setups I like having that downwards tilt.)
So even if the noise floor is not optimal (not 100% quiet, a heat pump and computer fans closeby probably influence the measurements somewhat, in adittion to family noise sources being present), comparing the left and right channel in-room might give some indications.
I am currently experimenting with: NOT using any form of xo between the "subs" and the 15" fullranger, there is only the EQ settings in Voicemeeter Banana, EQ settings are identical for each channel.
Remember the speakers are measured in-room and very close to side walls, measurements are ca 110cm from cone, so variations are expected.
Here's the EQ settings from VM Banana:
Here's the SPL + distortion for left channel:
Here's the SPL + distortion for right channel:
Here's L+R SPL measurements on top of each other:
Smoothing is 1/12th oct, but there is not a huge amount of deviation on unsmoothed graphs, it just looks more tidy with 1/12th oct.
(I am just ridiculously happy with the bass response, hardly any eq at all and that smooth. I have found that tilting a downwards slope from low to high frequency gives a very bass heavy response, it's way too much, so prefer more flat curves when the setups digs this low, on my other not quite as bass capable setups I like having that downwards tilt.)
Some serious low end extension there! re distortion - you appear to be highlighting the distortion at 13.5Hz?
I would highly recommend you try the foam acoustic lens, approx 40-50mm thick of any open cell foam will show a difference in dispersion, cut a hole equal in diameter to the larger of the whizzer cones and tape the foam over the driver. Some foam types are better than others but it will show off the concept. Makes a huge difference especially to the 4K dip off axis.
I would highly recommend you try the foam acoustic lens, approx 40-50mm thick of any open cell foam will show a difference in dispersion, cut a hole equal in diameter to the larger of the whizzer cones and tape the foam over the driver. Some foam types are better than others but it will show off the concept. Makes a huge difference especially to the 4K dip off axis.
So you should be. Very impressive results. Thanks for posting such great data.
I get higher distortion results in the bands where EQ and crossover functions are operating. The distortion, I believe, are artifacts of the measurement tool (Behringer DSP and REW). But I don't know enough to say why. Anybody know?
I think for examination of your speaker's distortion, more meaningful to see distortion with EQ and xo absent. For example, look at the EQ at 4200 Hz and the distortion showing up at that point.
Apropos the movement to add an acoustic/psychoacoustic forum to DIYaudio, have a look at the weirdness at 73 Hz. Looks like the room is pulling the L and R in different directions relative to the mic location. Fixing the room is a lot more important that tweaking the FR to within 3dB.
B.
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Those measurements look pretty good. I'm guessing that's with the EQ shown in place.
I wish they'd done these with a more powerful motor so they'll go into some compact stage monitors.
Then again..
Xtra neo-magnet : qts from 0,39 to 0,34 !
Hmmmm, could be interesting. I can see some improvements that could be made, including joining the neo magnets to the top/back plate of the driver's motor.
At the moment, it looks like the 15-300TC's motor is pretty weak, so I'm wondering how much of an improvement can be made there.
If that works well (ie, lots of magnets, plus some steel at each side), this could be a really exciting modification that would make the drivers much more usable.
Chris
I wish they'd done these with a more powerful motor so they'll go into some compact stage monitors.
Then again..
Xtra neo-magnet : qts from 0,39 to 0,34 !
Hmmmm, could be interesting. I can see some improvements that could be made, including joining the neo magnets to the top/back plate of the driver's motor.
At the moment, it looks like the 15-300TC's motor is pretty weak, so I'm wondering how much of an improvement can be made there.
If that works well (ie, lots of magnets, plus some steel at each side), this could be a really exciting modification that would make the drivers much more usable.
Chris
Just finishing of some CAD drawings now for some 12-250tc's to send to get CNC'd for stage monitor duty, with a foam acoustic lens, a 40L box and 150 taps of FIR these things will sing for small to medium size stage use, prototype is excellent, extremely well behaved step response, loads of gain before feedback and an awesome vocal sound, useful down to 70Hz.
Agree that a more powerful motor version, preferably with a cast basket would be great.
SubSoniks: Indeed! Acoustic lens is in the pipeline, I have all the parts, but must do finish of the boxes first, and it's a bit tricky to get the time schedule to do so. 1.57% THD+N on 13.5hz not too bad?
Ben: I can easily switch off eq on VM Banana, will do that when possible.
I find that the peaks and dips variations between channel almost nulls out so the perception of sound is smooth when listening to normal music and watching movies, at least under 3-400hz. Again, the measurement was not under optimal conditions, so some of the distortion may be from nearby computer fans or the heat pump or people stomping around or making noise upstairs, I heard it so the measurement mic should also.
Ivo: Yes, this is with the 2 x 15-400 bass boxes per channel as well. No xo!
Chris: A whoopin' 5 bands of eq as shown in the first pic. No xo!
That's a cool idea about the Neo magnet slugs! Thank you for showing me that thread.
Adason: I do not know if that's possible, I would prefer to do that outside and make a proper setup for it, but I am hard pressed for time in combination with opportunity, it would have to happen after box finishing and acoustic lens, with all the stuff happ'nin here that starts to look like maybe next year sometime...
Ben: I can easily switch off eq on VM Banana, will do that when possible.
I find that the peaks and dips variations between channel almost nulls out so the perception of sound is smooth when listening to normal music and watching movies, at least under 3-400hz. Again, the measurement was not under optimal conditions, so some of the distortion may be from nearby computer fans or the heat pump or people stomping around or making noise upstairs, I heard it so the measurement mic should also.
Ivo: Yes, this is with the 2 x 15-400 bass boxes per channel as well. No xo!
Chris: A whoopin' 5 bands of eq as shown in the first pic. No xo!
That's a cool idea about the Neo magnet slugs! Thank you for showing me that thread.
Adason: I do not know if that's possible, I would prefer to do that outside and make a proper setup for it, but I am hard pressed for time in combination with opportunity, it would have to happen after box finishing and acoustic lens, with all the stuff happ'nin here that starts to look like maybe next year sometime...
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