Cut and Paste fooled me
There is nothing weirder than reading what is supposed to be a cut and paste, but the person actually segments what you posted in such a way as to present the exact opposite of what you actually said. I knew right away it wasn't what I said, but did you mean to reverse what was said or was that just a cutting error?
I am new here, so I am really trying to understand why so many people talk so extensively about inconsequential things, when other things are actually what are trying to be understood, but since a serious pattern has now surfaced, with 3 members, I guess you are all just quite different , while very similar in style than anyone that I have encountered in my life, and that is just how it is.
Cables are not all identical, and as much as you guys think so, I know how I got to my conclusions, and double blind is bullet proof, thus the method being the same for decades. I think somebody must have concluded that I spent 1300 for my cables, and maybe some of you haven't read my clarfication that I got them used for 350, but there are sonic and staging differences with cables whether you realize it or not. Again, for the 5th time or so, I do agree that there are most scam cables than good ones, and this makes it a hard field to believe in if you don't check the right ones, but even though we got on this because a guy forgot to disclose that this amp only takes 1 of the 5 most common methods, when I told him what I used, I think it is a blessing, because when I know I am right, I take no offense to defending that position, and if I can get even one of you to actually try a brand that does work, and at 300 and 600 bucks, they aren't out of range should you not like them, than it has all been worth it.
I must ask you, and the others that have been so uni-viewed with strong negative emotion a question though.
If you were like me and didn't believe that cables made a difference as long as your density was appropriate to your run, and the connecters were solid with theamp, but because you heard so much disparity between opinions from people you respected, you actually because you did allot of ebay, could easily buy and sell 20 pairs, and try them for free, other then the time to buy and sell, and did so, and found the conclusions that I did, would you still believe that they didn't matter when the results were chimp obvious that cables do matter?
Now these 300 dollar cables beat many 1500 dollar cables and the 700 many as well, and were better than the 300, so I am not saying cables have to be better to be more money, just that there are some cables that make a noticeable difference on focus, depth, natural tonality of voices, than just taking a solid connection and basic wire.
I think what happened to you guys, is given I found about 1 in 3 cables to have any science to them whatsoever, and 1 in 5 to have serious improvement, that at one time you all checked a expensive one and a basic one, and you bought the one expensive one that was pure bullcrap, and so now to your detriment, you feel that all cables are worthless.
I don't like to argue for the sake of it, and I certainly would prefer to save the money if you were right, but the facts are the facts. If you try the Bel cables you will hear a difference that you like, unless you have a mismatched system where your problems become even more obvious, but even then the cables will expose it more and so again they did something. The funniest part about all of this, is that we are all on a boutque amp thread where these amps cost big money, yet all amps have transformers and capacitors, and 95% the same stuff as every other one, but we all know that they don't sound the same,a nd they don't have the same burst or staying power, or even the ability to mimic a recording the same way. There is a huge group of people that think the same things about amps, that other than power and channnels an amp is an amp. If you polled all of America and Put B&K and Pass Labs' on paper, far more people would know B&K, but they can't hold a candle to a Pass labs amp. Does you not knowing that make the B&K better if you hadn't heard of Pass labs, or would the fact still be the fact whether you knew it or not?
I bet more of you than not if you could get a 1300 dollar cable that you can sell for 600 all day used, could get it for 350 to try, probably would, because even if you didn't like it, you make money getting rid of it, which is what I did. Just changing from Monsters by teh foot, which is a pretty thick cable with a solid cover sounded good on the Pass, but the Bel's sounded much more focused and tighter , and I am positive that any of you would agree should you hear them. I just wish that this brand was a commercial one so you could try one without having to bye them, but because this guy is basically a Howard Hugh's type monk, and makes as many hand made, by one man amps he can per year and doesn't believe in anybody else touching them, there are only 5 dealers in the entire world for his products.
Have any of you ever heard the Bel amps? I would love to hear feedback on that, because they are really fine amplifiers. Hand made, and each pair done by this one man's hands.
In conclusion, I suppose that when I was making an ironical statement about the guy who sold me my amp putting me in the position that hearing it on day one was not possible, that I can see if you are a cable non believer, you could have thought fora moment that I paid what the retail on my cables really was, but now it is 4 days later, and I paid 1/4th of that cost used, and can sell them for 200% of that, which like them or not is just pure good business no matter where you are buying or selling.
There is nothing weirder than reading what is supposed to be a cut and paste, but the person actually segments what you posted in such a way as to present the exact opposite of what you actually said. I knew right away it wasn't what I said, but did you mean to reverse what was said or was that just a cutting error?
I am new here, so I am really trying to understand why so many people talk so extensively about inconsequential things, when other things are actually what are trying to be understood, but since a serious pattern has now surfaced, with 3 members, I guess you are all just quite different , while very similar in style than anyone that I have encountered in my life, and that is just how it is.
Cables are not all identical, and as much as you guys think so, I know how I got to my conclusions, and double blind is bullet proof, thus the method being the same for decades. I think somebody must have concluded that I spent 1300 for my cables, and maybe some of you haven't read my clarfication that I got them used for 350, but there are sonic and staging differences with cables whether you realize it or not. Again, for the 5th time or so, I do agree that there are most scam cables than good ones, and this makes it a hard field to believe in if you don't check the right ones, but even though we got on this because a guy forgot to disclose that this amp only takes 1 of the 5 most common methods, when I told him what I used, I think it is a blessing, because when I know I am right, I take no offense to defending that position, and if I can get even one of you to actually try a brand that does work, and at 300 and 600 bucks, they aren't out of range should you not like them, than it has all been worth it.
I must ask you, and the others that have been so uni-viewed with strong negative emotion a question though.
If you were like me and didn't believe that cables made a difference as long as your density was appropriate to your run, and the connecters were solid with theamp, but because you heard so much disparity between opinions from people you respected, you actually because you did allot of ebay, could easily buy and sell 20 pairs, and try them for free, other then the time to buy and sell, and did so, and found the conclusions that I did, would you still believe that they didn't matter when the results were chimp obvious that cables do matter?
Now these 300 dollar cables beat many 1500 dollar cables and the 700 many as well, and were better than the 300, so I am not saying cables have to be better to be more money, just that there are some cables that make a noticeable difference on focus, depth, natural tonality of voices, than just taking a solid connection and basic wire.
I think what happened to you guys, is given I found about 1 in 3 cables to have any science to them whatsoever, and 1 in 5 to have serious improvement, that at one time you all checked a expensive one and a basic one, and you bought the one expensive one that was pure bullcrap, and so now to your detriment, you feel that all cables are worthless.
I don't like to argue for the sake of it, and I certainly would prefer to save the money if you were right, but the facts are the facts. If you try the Bel cables you will hear a difference that you like, unless you have a mismatched system where your problems become even more obvious, but even then the cables will expose it more and so again they did something. The funniest part about all of this, is that we are all on a boutque amp thread where these amps cost big money, yet all amps have transformers and capacitors, and 95% the same stuff as every other one, but we all know that they don't sound the same,a nd they don't have the same burst or staying power, or even the ability to mimic a recording the same way. There is a huge group of people that think the same things about amps, that other than power and channnels an amp is an amp. If you polled all of America and Put B&K and Pass Labs' on paper, far more people would know B&K, but they can't hold a candle to a Pass labs amp. Does you not knowing that make the B&K better if you hadn't heard of Pass labs, or would the fact still be the fact whether you knew it or not?
I bet more of you than not if you could get a 1300 dollar cable that you can sell for 600 all day used, could get it for 350 to try, probably would, because even if you didn't like it, you make money getting rid of it, which is what I did. Just changing from Monsters by teh foot, which is a pretty thick cable with a solid cover sounded good on the Pass, but the Bel's sounded much more focused and tighter , and I am positive that any of you would agree should you hear them. I just wish that this brand was a commercial one so you could try one without having to bye them, but because this guy is basically a Howard Hugh's type monk, and makes as many hand made, by one man amps he can per year and doesn't believe in anybody else touching them, there are only 5 dealers in the entire world for his products.
Have any of you ever heard the Bel amps? I would love to hear feedback on that, because they are really fine amplifiers. Hand made, and each pair done by this one man's hands.
In conclusion, I suppose that when I was making an ironical statement about the guy who sold me my amp putting me in the position that hearing it on day one was not possible, that I can see if you are a cable non believer, you could have thought fora moment that I paid what the retail on my cables really was, but now it is 4 days later, and I paid 1/4th of that cost used, and can sell them for 200% of that, which like them or not is just pure good business no matter where you are buying or selling.
Gracious me, if assumptions were water, you'd be drowning.
I happen to own some pretty expensive speaker cables (albeit older ones). To assume that I am in some sense prejudiced against high-end cabling...oh, well, never mind...
I still suggest that you spend a bit of time investigating the inductance/capacitance question. An ideal cable would have no inductance, no capacitance, and no resistance. In the real world, it is inevitable that cables will have some of each. No surprises there.
It's better to minimize each component, not maximize them.
Back in the '70s there was a speaker cable (name witheld to protect the guilty, though those who've been at this long enough will know who I'm talking about) that was made by weaving a lot of smaller wires into a braid. Amps blew when hooked to speakers using this cable. If I recall correctly, there were even a few lawsuits. Nowadays, there are disclaimers in the paperwork to shield against such suits. Anyway, the point is that the reactance of the cable caused amplifiers to oscillate. In this context, oscillate means that the amplifier begins putting out a signal, even though none is present at the input. The signal is frequently in the MHz range, well beyond human hearing--an important corollary being that just because you don't hear a squeal doesn't mean that nothing is going on.
This oscillation doesn't necessarily correlate to the quality of the amp. Cheap amps can do it, expensive amps can do it. Wonderful sounding amps can do it and amps that sound like garbage can do it. Granted, you can assume that an amplifier that is poorly designed might be more prone to oscillation, but well designed amps may fall prey as well. The cable presents an "unfair" load to the amplifier. Something it should never have had to face.
There are all kinds of amplifiers in the world. Some have protection circuits. Some do not. The ones that do have protection circuits don't all trigger the same way. It's entirely possible that an amp with a protection circuit might be oscillating, yet the protection circuit may not trigger because it's keyed to some other parameter, such as DC offset.
I tried to follow your wank and wog analogy but was unable to make heads or tails of what you were trying to say...and that's in spite of the fact that I've been writing science fiction professionally for fifteen years or so.
I understand that you really, really like these speaker cables. I get the point. I do. Honestly. But a cable that pushes amplifiers into oscillation isn't one I would use in my system, even on a dare. There are numerous reactive cables out there. There's even a DIY one that seems to be quite popular, judging from the number of people who mention it on this site. Some people like them because they have a more pronounced "sound" (for want of a better term) than other cables. A dark cable may counterbalance a bright speaker, for instance, and people may use them to even out the sound of their system. But still...a cable that causes amplifiers to shut down is a dangerous thing. It is not a mark of high-end distinction to say that a given cable triggers protection circuits.
When all is said and done, it's your system, your amplifier, and your speakers. If it makes you happy, then you can say that you got your money's worth. Just don't be surprised if folks are resistant to the idea that they should put cables like that in their system.
Regardless of price.
Grey
I happen to own some pretty expensive speaker cables (albeit older ones). To assume that I am in some sense prejudiced against high-end cabling...oh, well, never mind...
I still suggest that you spend a bit of time investigating the inductance/capacitance question. An ideal cable would have no inductance, no capacitance, and no resistance. In the real world, it is inevitable that cables will have some of each. No surprises there.
It's better to minimize each component, not maximize them.
Back in the '70s there was a speaker cable (name witheld to protect the guilty, though those who've been at this long enough will know who I'm talking about) that was made by weaving a lot of smaller wires into a braid. Amps blew when hooked to speakers using this cable. If I recall correctly, there were even a few lawsuits. Nowadays, there are disclaimers in the paperwork to shield against such suits. Anyway, the point is that the reactance of the cable caused amplifiers to oscillate. In this context, oscillate means that the amplifier begins putting out a signal, even though none is present at the input. The signal is frequently in the MHz range, well beyond human hearing--an important corollary being that just because you don't hear a squeal doesn't mean that nothing is going on.
This oscillation doesn't necessarily correlate to the quality of the amp. Cheap amps can do it, expensive amps can do it. Wonderful sounding amps can do it and amps that sound like garbage can do it. Granted, you can assume that an amplifier that is poorly designed might be more prone to oscillation, but well designed amps may fall prey as well. The cable presents an "unfair" load to the amplifier. Something it should never have had to face.
There are all kinds of amplifiers in the world. Some have protection circuits. Some do not. The ones that do have protection circuits don't all trigger the same way. It's entirely possible that an amp with a protection circuit might be oscillating, yet the protection circuit may not trigger because it's keyed to some other parameter, such as DC offset.
I tried to follow your wank and wog analogy but was unable to make heads or tails of what you were trying to say...and that's in spite of the fact that I've been writing science fiction professionally for fifteen years or so.
I understand that you really, really like these speaker cables. I get the point. I do. Honestly. But a cable that pushes amplifiers into oscillation isn't one I would use in my system, even on a dare. There are numerous reactive cables out there. There's even a DIY one that seems to be quite popular, judging from the number of people who mention it on this site. Some people like them because they have a more pronounced "sound" (for want of a better term) than other cables. A dark cable may counterbalance a bright speaker, for instance, and people may use them to even out the sound of their system. But still...a cable that causes amplifiers to shut down is a dangerous thing. It is not a mark of high-end distinction to say that a given cable triggers protection circuits.
When all is said and done, it's your system, your amplifier, and your speakers. If it makes you happy, then you can say that you got your money's worth. Just don't be surprised if folks are resistant to the idea that they should put cables like that in their system.
Regardless of price.
Grey
E Tu Nelson, E tu?
I am not talking audio files or even strong enthusiasts, but all of America, and with all of America B&K is in more mass retail store's than any other brand of entry amplifier's in almost every city in America, that has such stores and Pass labs and many other great brands are not in many cities, of which mine with 4,000,000 people is one of them at all, which is why that is overwhelmingly a safe statement.
I guess tinkering folks just think differently because not one post seems to go by without the central point going down in favor of an inconsequential subtext.
I do appreciate the help though, and sorry about not answering your question here, but I thought email would be just as good of a channel, which I see is not your preferred method.
I am not talking audio files or even strong enthusiasts, but all of America, and with all of America B&K is in more mass retail store's than any other brand of entry amplifier's in almost every city in America, that has such stores and Pass labs and many other great brands are not in many cities, of which mine with 4,000,000 people is one of them at all, which is why that is overwhelmingly a safe statement.
I guess tinkering folks just think differently because not one post seems to go by without the central point going down in favor of an inconsequential subtext.
I do appreciate the help though, and sorry about not answering your question here, but I thought email would be just as good of a channel, which I see is not your preferred method.
No, you're not the only one, I've been reading this since the start and keep asking myself why it seems to just be going on and on about speaker cables, which seem to be of no real relevence to the problem that Addicted has with his amp (and I still wonder why he hasn't answered the question about the jumpers yet, which does seem to be very relevent).
Why not drop the cable issue, which has i degenerated into name-calling in inumerable threads right here on this forum, and instead discuss the issue Nelson is trying to help you with.
He needs to know if you are using a single phono (RCA) jack as the input for each channel or the 3 pin input that is like a microphone uses for each channel.
Let's assume that you are using a pre-amp. Does the output from the preamp have a phono (RCA) jack as the Left output channel and have a phono (RCA) jack as the as the Right output channel?
OR:
Some preamps also have a 3 pin output that is like a microphone uses for the Left channel and also have a 3 pin output that is like a microphone uses for the Right channel. The 3 pin connetors and cables are call "Balanced"
So you see, this discussion is only periferally about cables and more about the kind of connections your pre amp has.
The phono jacks are much more common on preamps but some high end ones have both.
It just so happens that Pass amps can take advantage of the 3 pin output in a special way, so lots of people who use Pass amps use the 3 pin ( balanced) outputs from the preamp if the preamp has them. Using the 3 pin output does require special cables, but it is quite possible that the cables you like come in this configuration also.
The amplifier needs to be set internally for which kind of output your preamp has. I guess the jumper is internal, because once someone sets it, they don't change preamps very often. If the jumper was a switch on the outside, it might get moved to the wrong position accidently.
So...... If you like using the phono jacks on your preamp OR if your preamp only has phono jacks, or your cables have phono connectors and you wantt o keep them, then NO problem- you just need to set the internal jumpers as Nelson Pass himself tells you.
BUT you have to tell him what your pre amp is like as I have tried my best to describe, so that he can help you set the jumper. I'm sure it is very easy to do.
Mark
Nelson, you may owe me tickets for this
He needs to know if you are using a single phono (RCA) jack as the input for each channel or the 3 pin input that is like a microphone uses for each channel.
Let's assume that you are using a pre-amp. Does the output from the preamp have a phono (RCA) jack as the Left output channel and have a phono (RCA) jack as the as the Right output channel?
OR:
Some preamps also have a 3 pin output that is like a microphone uses for the Left channel and also have a 3 pin output that is like a microphone uses for the Right channel. The 3 pin connetors and cables are call "Balanced"
So you see, this discussion is only periferally about cables and more about the kind of connections your pre amp has.
The phono jacks are much more common on preamps but some high end ones have both.
It just so happens that Pass amps can take advantage of the 3 pin output in a special way, so lots of people who use Pass amps use the 3 pin ( balanced) outputs from the preamp if the preamp has them. Using the 3 pin output does require special cables, but it is quite possible that the cables you like come in this configuration also.
The amplifier needs to be set internally for which kind of output your preamp has. I guess the jumper is internal, because once someone sets it, they don't change preamps very often. If the jumper was a switch on the outside, it might get moved to the wrong position accidently.
So...... If you like using the phono jacks on your preamp OR if your preamp only has phono jacks, or your cables have phono connectors and you wantt o keep them, then NO problem- you just need to set the internal jumpers as Nelson Pass himself tells you.
BUT you have to tell him what your pre amp is like as I have tried my best to describe, so that he can help you set the jumper. I'm sure it is very easy to do.
Mark
Nelson, you may owe me tickets for this
G Rollins
than very strange site, because it said in an email link that you responded to my post, and the subject matter seemed in direct response to my post, and when I hit the link it came straight to your post, and there was no reply, only email , so this site is getting weirder and weirder on options.
than very strange site, because it said in an email link that you responded to my post, and the subject matter seemed in direct response to my post, and when I hit the link it came straight to your post, and there was no reply, only email , so this site is getting weirder and weirder on options.
From which I deduce that you have the option turned on which tells you that someone has responded to your thread.
I didn't e-mail you. The DIYaudio site did, telling you that I had responded. I turned that feature off years ago...it was driving me crazy. You can turn it off in your "user control panel" or whatever they call it.
Grey
I didn't e-mail you. The DIYaudio site did, telling you that I had responded. I turned that feature off years ago...it was driving me crazy. You can turn it off in your "user control panel" or whatever they call it.
Grey
Sparhawk, you hit the nail right on its head. It's like watching "The perfect storm" The monster wave waiting to come to engulf it all... or "Chronicle of an announced death"... the inevitability of tragedy in a bizarre world ruled by inscrutable codes of conduct... Eros and Thatanos... You just wait to see what happens when the trains collide head-on... or whether they will... or, to use the Western analogy, in a tense standoff, who will draw first... rite now they're shooting blanks... we're right in the eye of the storm dude... Millions are watching it in disbelief... hahahahahahahaaaaarrrggh!
MBK said:
I have to say, this thread has been entertaining. Watching realities clash... Like two completely different universes which first appear to be similar, but on closer inspection reveal completely different physical properties, and a language which is only superficially compatible.
I look forward to more baffling posts.
Mmmmh. Doesn't compute.
Yeah it's floodin down in Texas/
All the telephone lines are down/
And I still wait for the flash of enlightenment from the collision of matter with anti-matter Could it be that in any company engineering and marketing have analogous dilemmas? Poor NP, who has to do both 
Seriously though, I find it amazing how the usually rough tone of these pages was strangely subdued. People who normally shoot from the hip have been going out of their way to be genuinely helpful, without scorn or preaching. It just doesn't compute.
Yeah it's floodin down in Texas/
All the telephone lines are down/
And I still wait for the flash of enlightenment from the collision of matter with anti-matter
Could it be that in any company engineering and marketing have analogous dilemmas? Poor NP, who has to do both Seriously though, I find it amazing how the usually rough tone of these pages was strangely subdued. People who normally shoot from the hip have been going out of their way to be genuinely helpful, without scorn or preaching. It just doesn't compute.
Answered twice and days ago here
I was stated to by nelson that I was using the jumpers, and when the answer is the obvious there really isn't a need to answer a rhetorical question, but since it was from Nelson, I answered Nelson the same day he asked by email, along with another question to him. He than proved my friend who got me here in the 1st place right when 2 days later he said I hadn't answered his question, when the answer had been in his email for 2 days, so I cited that I had done so by email, and answered it here directly. That was like 4 days ago, so even though anyone that didn't have something so obvious would surely answer quickly, I have now answered long ago on this board, yet the question keeps coming up.
It is hilarious that Nelson favors this site so much more than his email that my friend knew that was how to get hold of him, and than the actual proof of one over the other proves itself in only a few days like that, but yes I had the jumpers in the whole time. I even checked to make sure they were in right, and than even called days later because you can't actually read the numbers without a magnifying glass where I have the amp, and I did not have one, and the guy at Pass basically convinced me they may be in wrong, and than I tried his way and no sound at all, so than I finally went out and got a magnifying glass, and discovered they were in right all the time, but either the guy I spoke to at pass was not looking at a XLR in an amp, because for his theory to work , the XLR was supposed to be upside down from what he said, or my particular one was just installed upside down, but in the end that wasn't the problem.
My only remaining issue, and this was there all along, but was the leastof my concerns until I got used to the thing, is there is a noticeable hum out of the center channel not only when there is no audio in standby, but for the 1st time even in quite scenes with material playing. IN the past this hum has been traced to the Warner cable because while they hard ground it right, becuase of their multiple in line amplifiers, the ground getsscrewed up and I had to put that cable through a grounding device in my rack. What is so confusing about this new one, is that I don't have cable anymore, and this amp is hooked up identically to the Krell and even the amplifier I had while shopping for my new Pass withtout either picking up any hmmm. I don't think the amp ever actually is the hum, but instead is just the amplification of such, but it drives you crazy never the less.
This puppy sure does have some dynamic range though and even though and it has something my Krell didn't have,but other earlier ones did, which is it is just fun to listen too. So many historically strong amplifier names seem to have forgotten that critical thing, in favor of numbers on paper, and it just really ****es me off. You can spec all you want, but numero uno is does the amplifier make you want to listen to it? It has become so common in the last 10 years, that I actually fear the art of sound may actually disappear if we aren't careful. I am going to have to hear that X250 on music, after hearing this thing, because I have heard so many acalades about that amplifier musically, and after hearing this my curiosity is just off the chart. It wouldn't be possible for me at this time, but I have to know if it is in my future. I took the cables back I was trying, because I plan on trying the same range from cheap to about 700 used, which equals 1500 new,and even though those sounded great, I dont change amps and speakers but about every 8 years, and so the drill must be done each time.
I was stated to by nelson that I was using the jumpers, and when the answer is the obvious there really isn't a need to answer a rhetorical question, but since it was from Nelson, I answered Nelson the same day he asked by email, along with another question to him. He than proved my friend who got me here in the 1st place right when 2 days later he said I hadn't answered his question, when the answer had been in his email for 2 days, so I cited that I had done so by email, and answered it here directly. That was like 4 days ago, so even though anyone that didn't have something so obvious would surely answer quickly, I have now answered long ago on this board, yet the question keeps coming up.
It is hilarious that Nelson favors this site so much more than his email that my friend knew that was how to get hold of him, and than the actual proof of one over the other proves itself in only a few days like that, but yes I had the jumpers in the whole time. I even checked to make sure they were in right, and than even called days later because you can't actually read the numbers without a magnifying glass where I have the amp, and I did not have one, and the guy at Pass basically convinced me they may be in wrong, and than I tried his way and no sound at all, so than I finally went out and got a magnifying glass, and discovered they were in right all the time, but either the guy I spoke to at pass was not looking at a XLR in an amp, because for his theory to work , the XLR was supposed to be upside down from what he said, or my particular one was just installed upside down, but in the end that wasn't the problem.
My only remaining issue, and this was there all along, but was the leastof my concerns until I got used to the thing, is there is a noticeable hum out of the center channel not only when there is no audio in standby, but for the 1st time even in quite scenes with material playing. IN the past this hum has been traced to the Warner cable because while they hard ground it right, becuase of their multiple in line amplifiers, the ground getsscrewed up and I had to put that cable through a grounding device in my rack. What is so confusing about this new one, is that I don't have cable anymore, and this amp is hooked up identically to the Krell and even the amplifier I had while shopping for my new Pass withtout either picking up any hmmm. I don't think the amp ever actually is the hum, but instead is just the amplification of such, but it drives you crazy never the less.
This puppy sure does have some dynamic range though and even though and it has something my Krell didn't have,but other earlier ones did, which is it is just fun to listen too. So many historically strong amplifier names seem to have forgotten that critical thing, in favor of numbers on paper, and it just really ****es me off. You can spec all you want, but numero uno is does the amplifier make you want to listen to it? It has become so common in the last 10 years, that I actually fear the art of sound may actually disappear if we aren't careful. I am going to have to hear that X250 on music, after hearing this thing, because I have heard so many acalades about that amplifier musically, and after hearing this my curiosity is just off the chart. It wouldn't be possible for me at this time, but I have to know if it is in my future. I took the cables back I was trying, because I plan on trying the same range from cheap to about 700 used, which equals 1500 new,and even though those sounded great, I dont change amps and speakers but about every 8 years, and so the drill must be done each time.
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