Interesting, I had to wait a 10 - 20 minutes when I installed the tung sol tube in the mid slot before it was playing well, maybe it can take longer time?
I have been swapping and trying different combinations with my old and new tubes and I ended up with a Mullard - tung sol - Millard setup, an reissues, that's what I liked best. No matter where I place the TAD 7025 tubes the sound became a little flat and boring, the tubes has been used for approximately 3 years and then not used for another 4 years, so maybe they are just bad?
I also noticed that the whole sound spectrum is more balanced at lower and higher volumes with the new tung sol in the mid slot. With the mullard the bass was more recessed at lower volumes compared to tung sol. Is it because the tung sol is a better tube? Or maybe the mullard is just too old (4 years of usage)?
I have been swapping and trying different combinations with my old and new tubes and I ended up with a Mullard - tung sol - Millard setup, an reissues, that's what I liked best. No matter where I place the TAD 7025 tubes the sound became a little flat and boring, the tubes has been used for approximately 3 years and then not used for another 4 years, so maybe they are just bad?
I also noticed that the whole sound spectrum is more balanced at lower and higher volumes with the new tung sol in the mid slot. With the mullard the bass was more recessed at lower volumes compared to tung sol. Is it because the tung sol is a better tube? Or maybe the mullard is just too old (4 years of usage)?
I got some time to compare my current 3 types of tubes
Notice that the stock tubes (Shuguang?) are actually identical to the PSVane. I think the sound characteristics is similar too.
Now for the pairings
Notice that the stock tubes (Shuguang?) are actually identical to the PSVane. I think the sound characteristics is similar too.
Now for the pairings
- 12AX7T2-12AX7B-12AX7T2 : Warm, tight mid bass but clarity is not well defined. I attribute to PSVanes not burn in fully yet.
- 7025-12AX7B-7025: Good soundstage, sweet clarity and details. My favorite at the moment
- 12AX7T2-7025-12AX7T2: Neutral sound, soundstage not as wide as with the above, clear highs
- Preferred Series 7025 are well suited for outer tubes, they seem to add clarity and details in trebel section
- The stock Shuguangs 12AXB and PSVane 12AX7T2 are suited for center tube. They enhance soundstage and grunt at bass to midbass.
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Thanks for the brief review.
I'm still waiting on the rest of my tubes to arrive, I did make a change in the order though, I changed the 12at7 tung-sol tube to a jj 5751 tube, now when we were told that the mid socket is not a phase inverter but a gain socket (12at7 is better suited as a phase inverter and not gain, a low gain equivalent to 12ax7 is 5751).
I'm still waiting on the rest of my tubes to arrive, I did make a change in the order though, I changed the 12at7 tung-sol tube to a jj 5751 tube, now when we were told that the mid socket is not a phase inverter but a gain socket (12at7 is better suited as a phase inverter and not gain, a low gain equivalent to 12ax7 is 5751).
Just a small update:
I got the second tung sol 12ax7 tube today, similar to the first one I got. Now I'm testing a tung sol - mullard - tung sol setup as opposed to the mullard - tung sol - mullard I had before. The sound is quite much the same, but it has lost a little "sparkle" / dynamics at the high frequencies. It's a little bit more like the sound I had before with 3 mullards.
I expect to receive the other tubes (JJ 5751 and Sovtek 12ax7lps) tomorrow or on Monday and they are for the mid slot. I'll keep you updated.
I got the second tung sol 12ax7 tube today, similar to the first one I got. Now I'm testing a tung sol - mullard - tung sol setup as opposed to the mullard - tung sol - mullard I had before. The sound is quite much the same, but it has lost a little "sparkle" / dynamics at the high frequencies. It's a little bit more like the sound I had before with 3 mullards.
I expect to receive the other tubes (JJ 5751 and Sovtek 12ax7lps) tomorrow or on Monday and they are for the mid slot. I'll keep you updated
.Thanks for the heads up. I'll probably try the sovtek as well.
Well, look what I got from the mail
So far I've just been checking them as center tubes for a pair of PSVane 12AX7T2. BTW, I now prefer the 12AX7T2 for cathode followers instead of 7025. The PSvanes seem to provide more bottom end.
Anyway, here are my impressions so far:
Mullard - Has the most in-your-face forwardness. It seems there quite a bump at upper midrange. It's so sweet for vocals but it gets fatiguing when symbals and strings gets mixed in. It amplifies sibilance in recordings. I did not like it in headphones (Senn HD600) but it's not bad in my B&W speakers. I will give it more time to burn in/settle.
Tung-sol - Less forward than Mullard, so it's quite neutral. It is still kind of bright when using headphones but really sounding better with the speakers. It's quite comparable with the PSVanes. My favorite at the moment.
GoldLion - Best for headphones. The imaging is wide and upper freq details is good but kind of recessed. It seems there's a dip at midrange so it's very easy to listen to with headphones. BUT when listening to speakers, there seems to be emptiness in the body of music. I keep upping the volume and the sound is very lacking. I heard these needs lots of time to break in. So I will check again later.
Well, look what I got from the mail
So far I've just been checking them as center tubes for a pair of PSVane 12AX7T2. BTW, I now prefer the 12AX7T2 for cathode followers instead of 7025. The PSvanes seem to provide more bottom end.
Anyway, here are my impressions so far:
Mullard - Has the most in-your-face forwardness. It seems there quite a bump at upper midrange. It's so sweet for vocals but it gets fatiguing when symbals and strings gets mixed in. It amplifies sibilance in recordings. I did not like it in headphones (Senn HD600) but it's not bad in my B&W speakers. I will give it more time to burn in/settle.
Tung-sol - Less forward than Mullard, so it's quite neutral. It is still kind of bright when using headphones but really sounding better with the speakers. It's quite comparable with the PSVanes. My favorite at the moment.
GoldLion - Best for headphones. The imaging is wide and upper freq details is good but kind of recessed. It seems there's a dip at midrange so it's very easy to listen to with headphones. BUT when listening to speakers, there seems to be emptiness in the body of music. I keep upping the volume and the sound is very lacking. I heard these needs lots of time to break in. So I will check again later.
Nice with an update! Thanks!
I don't have much time for playing with my hi-fi setup lately, as I have just become a father to my first child (A boy). We just came home from the hospital today and my tubes has arrived.
I'll try them out when I have the time, but I will most likely not have the opportunity to turn up the volume when I'm listening.
Really nice that you bought the 2 tubes that I have been using, so you prefer the tung-sol in the mid slot over all the others you have tried?
I don't have much time for playing with my hi-fi setup lately, as I have just become a father to my first child (A boy). We just came home from the hospital today and my tubes has arrived.
I'll try them out when I have the time, but I will most likely not have the opportunity to turn up the volume when I'm listening
.Really nice that you bought the 2 tubes that I have been using, so you prefer the tung-sol in the mid slot over all the others you have tried?
Attachments
Congratulations for the new baby! You are excused not to play with your hifi ha ha!
With all these stuff in burn-in period, let's not hold our breath yet. I just slot in the Mullard this morning (still with PsVanes at the sides), and it sounds fantastic, better than the Tongsol even. For now let's forget everything I wrote. I'm in lymbo 
With all these stuff in burn-in period, let's not hold our breath yet. I just slot in the Mullard this morning (still with PsVanes at the sides), and it sounds fantastic, better than the Tongsol even. For now let's forget everything I wrote. I'm in lymbo
Haha awesome! Some days, music just sound better than others to me, so I have to spend more than just a day to evaluate changes . There is different kind of Mullard reissue tubes, so I'll have to compare mine to yours by the picture you uploaded in order to find out if mine are similar.
Please keep my updated.
. There is different kind of Mullard reissue tubes, so I'll have to compare mine to yours by the picture you uploaded in order to find out if mine are similar.Please keep my updated
.
You guys might want to visit a few hamfests/radio shows/electronic flea markets and look for NOS 12AX7A and 5751, there is a marked difference in the quality of those tubes as compared to any modern production equivalents regardless of the name on the box and on the silk screen.
Look for old Philips Miniwatt ECC83/12AX7A ECC81/12AT7A etc
Sylvania and GE 5751s, if you need 12AT7A try the Sylvania 6201
Others to look for are Philips and Sylvania ECG, Amperex, Mullard, Valvo, Telefunken, RFT, Mazda, Adzam, Raytheon, Rogers, CBS (particularly from Canada) etc.
Many of these will be available if you are diligent for not more than you paid for the current production stuff.
Look for old Philips Miniwatt ECC83/12AX7A ECC81/12AT7A etc
Sylvania and GE 5751s, if you need 12AT7A try the Sylvania 6201
Others to look for are Philips and Sylvania ECG, Amperex, Mullard, Valvo, Telefunken, RFT, Mazda, Adzam, Raytheon, Rogers, CBS (particularly from Canada) etc.
Many of these will be available if you are diligent for not more than you paid for the current production stuff.
I have already been researching on NOS tubes quite a lot and I have even contacted a guy called Brent who sells NOS tubes on his site: BRENT JESSEE RECORDING HOMEPAGE.
But I'm not sure if I'm willing to pay that much for just a single tube. I've also read several places that some of the new production tubes today is not far away from the NOS tubes.
I do think that the RCA tubes looks interesting though. But knowing that I might not gain that much for that price, makes me want to try the new production tubes first.
But I'm not sure if I'm willing to pay that much for just a single tube. I've also read several places that some of the new production tubes today is not far away from the NOS tubes.
I do think that the RCA tubes looks interesting though. But knowing that I might not gain that much for that price, makes me want to try the new production tubes first.
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If you buy from a reseller of course you are going to pay through the nose, that's why I suggested seeking them out yourself in various venues.
Don't believe everything you've read on the internet, while I do use current production stuff in some of my designs I have through long experience come to realize that most commodity types made today do not last as long, are not as electrically consistent, and subjectively just don't sound as good as vintage tubes made in the era where they actually had the right materials, economics, and skills to do a good job on a consistent basis. There are clear exceptions amongst the boutique tube makers, but their product is not what we are discussing. They aren't close, at all.
I have been thinking about how trustable the internet are regarding tubes, in general Hi-Fi at all, it's all subjective and people have different preferences. The internet is just all I have for research . I don't know if there's any venues here in Denmark where i can get lucky and find good NOS tubes, but I might pay the price some day and try out some. Thanks for the tip.
. I don't know if there's any venues here in Denmark where i can get lucky and find good NOS tubes, but I might pay the price some day and try out some. Thanks for the tip.Thank you for for your tips KevinKr. I live in SoCal and I've been in some elect flea market once in Anaheim but that time I don't know about tube amps
I'll definitely go back to those again.Incidentally I saw this in Craigslist (link). Do you think that Smooth Ribbed Tele a good deal? What do you recommend to watch for when checking used tubes?
That's a good question, it becomes a lot cheaper and easier to experiment with NOS if it's only 1 tube we need to roll. An additional question to that: if the cathode followers doesn't have a noticeable impact on the sound, what tube would you recommend for that position if we want a robust and reliable tube for that position? I've read that some tubes does have a short longevity as cathode followers (something regarding spiral filaments, the new tung sols for instance).
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A small update:
I have been using a tung sol - jj 5751 - tung sol combination for about a week now and I have had the opportunity to crank up the volume a few times. It is still small differences but I think that this setup has a more dry sound with a little more midrange compared to the previous setup: tung sol - mullard - tung sol. It makes the music appear more detailed and "hi-fi" if you can say that. I didn't notice any difference in the gain though. The sound seems to be closer to solid state sound compared to before. This is my favorite combination so far but I still haven't tried the sovtek 12ax7lps yet, so next setup will be tung sol - sovtek 12ax7lps - tung sol.
I'll come with an update when I have spend some days with the new combination.
I have been using a tung sol - jj 5751 - tung sol combination for about a week now and I have had the opportunity to crank up the volume a few times. It is still small differences but I think that this setup has a more dry sound with a little more midrange compared to the previous setup: tung sol - mullard - tung sol. It makes the music appear more detailed and "hi-fi" if you can say that
. I didn't notice any difference in the gain though. The sound seems to be closer to solid state sound compared to before. This is my favorite combination so far but I still haven't tried the sovtek 12ax7lps yet, so next setup will be tung sol - sovtek 12ax7lps - tung sol.I'll come with an update when I have spend some days with the new combination
.Awesome! Thanks for the update.
I'm now contemplating on embarking to moding the capacitors. I'm hoping to gain clarity, midrange punch and better sound definition like they did in my SET amp. I'm looking into replacing some of the WIMA caps into exotics like Mundorf supremes or silver/oils.
It looks like I need pair of 1uF, 2.2uF, .33uF.
I need to start hiding some funds from my wife as these caps are not that cheap!!!
I'm now contemplating on embarking to moding the capacitors. I'm hoping to gain clarity, midrange punch and better sound definition like they did in my SET amp. I'm looking into replacing some of the WIMA caps into exotics like Mundorf supremes or silver/oils.
It looks like I need pair of 1uF, 2.2uF, .33uF.
I need to start hiding some funds from my wife as these caps are not that cheap!!!
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