No argument there, but this is a clone kit and some folk like to do things the clone way because that's closest to the original with the reputation and that is what sparks interest, regardless of how wonderful our mods may be. Actually, having listened to and enjoyed NAP/Nait designs for many years, I can't say I noticed an improvement in sound quality with amps that had been modified to have no protection at all, as is common with retail models I see at least. The point about limiters is that most popular and cherished 70s-90s amplifiers had them in one form or another. Most were crude, sensing current on one polarity only and starting to have an effect at quite low levels. Others were full VI and have less noticeable effect. Upgrade them to add dual and multislope versions and you have little or no affect at all until the output is more than loud in a domestic environment. That suits me fine.
I've even looked under the lid of an original NAP200 and used a QuantAsylum soundcard for a comparitive THD analysis with 100, 1kHz, 10kHz tones. At 5W level, (which is as loud as I can listen to for long) there was nothing in it with the limiters. My clone showed a little more distortion at 1kHz and 10kHz in one channel though I suspect components were the problem but I can't say I hear a difference whether the channels are swapped or not. Perhaps others can.
See Michael Kiwanuka, alias Mikek alias Waly's paper on VI limiters at Bonsai's Hifisonix site (I think it's still attached in the design articles section)
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I thought the issue with VI limiters was their behaviour at large signal levels and driving a non-linear load i.e. A speaker.
Agree- clones are clones, although I prefer to make improvements when they offer benefit with little risk to the sound signature. One example is the poor thermal tracking in the basic NAP 140, which is easily fixed if not insisting on an exact clone. But I wonder how many clone builders are using period speakers - without which you arent getting the sound of the time? And NOS parts ? I would expect modern caps to be different, mostly improved.
Agree- clones are clones, although I prefer to make improvements when they offer benefit with little risk to the sound signature. One example is the poor thermal tracking in the basic NAP 140, which is easily fixed if not insisting on an exact clone. But I wonder how many clone builders are using period speakers - without which you arent getting the sound of the time? And NOS parts ? I would expect modern caps to be different, mostly improved.
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Sorry about this error....I was not thinking. Naim uses polystyrene of course.
Mixing up my parrots...idiot.
Sorry for late response. I’m so I’ll this morning.
I looked up NCOs a while back. In short, I found they are much better than standard ceramics in microphony and thermal drift but not in everything. I’m going back to bed now.
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4 days of comparison between the nait 3 of origin and the pair of clone nap140 retrofitted 110 with nac 42 and frankly, both are very good but different.
the nait3 is more open and softer, the nap110 / nac42 is more centered and much more nervous and fast.
the two are the same base naim that's certain.
on the other hand, it is clear that clones come from China have nothing to do with the sound naim, unless we take the time to select the right original components and the proper implementation, there it becomes the naim!
the nait3 is more open and softer, the nap110 / nac42 is more centered and much more nervous and fast.
the two are the same base naim that's certain.
on the other hand, it is clear that clones come from China have nothing to do with the sound naim, unless we take the time to select the right original components and the proper implementation, there it becomes the naim!
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Was the NAC42 a clone too ? - wasn't clear to me, sorry. I assume that the pre-amp makes a difference to the sound so it is not just a comparison of power amps.
My clone was not as soft as I anticipated but the sound I hear matches very well the description of the NAIM sound published in the press - that may be a silly thing to say for most folk but those of you who have listened to a lot of amps will know what I mean when I say there is a signature to the NAIM sound and finding the words to describe it isn't that easy but when you read a well-written article about the sound you recognize within it that the author had the same feeling that you have when you listen to the amplifier.
My clone was not as soft as I anticipated but the sound I hear matches very well the description of the NAIM sound published in the press - that may be a silly thing to say for most folk but those of you who have listened to a lot of amps will know what I mean when I say there is a signature to the NAIM sound and finding the words to describe it isn't that easy but when you read a well-written article about the sound you recognize within it that the author had the same feeling that you have when you listen to the amplifier.
I have the original CB nait and olive nait 2 and I am currently working on NAP200 and Nap140 clones. Naim sound can be addictive. Contrary to most who don't like Naim prat, my little naits sound fabulous to my ears with Dynaco A25s and Altec A7 horns with no harshness or forwardness. Nait 1 has been recapped, nait 2 is all original.
my 42 it's a clone too but i have a nac 92 guenuine for comparison .
for me,naim is naim unparalleled with anything else.
I had Aura, Cyrus, Nytech, Ariston, NVA,Linn,MeridianA&R,Cambridge,Arcam etc etc etc, nothing sounds like naim.
for me, the only thing that looks like it is a PP of 7355/7591/7868 AB1.
there are things like that where we can not say why we love them but we always come back for the same reason.
I only like these two generation, chrome bumper and olive ...
for me,naim is naim unparalleled with anything else.
I had Aura, Cyrus, Nytech, Ariston, NVA,Linn,MeridianA&R,Cambridge,Arcam etc etc etc, nothing sounds like naim.
for me, the only thing that looks like it is a PP of 7355/7591/7868 AB1.
there are things like that where we can not say why we love them but we always come back for the same reason.
I only like these two generation, chrome bumper and olive ...
I had a chrome bumper Nait many years ago. It was quite good. Before that I had auditioned a lot of Naim gear. I used to be fascinated by how so few transistors arranged in such a seemingly unoriginal way could sound so musical. The NAP250 did have a habit of sounding a bit shrill; very exciting on cymbal work and snares. I was never fully satisfied by the Naim sound...it lacked something which I find hard to describe. Let's just say that it didn't convey the sincerity of a single ended amp; it didn't quite touch the soul. But at least the sound isn't boring like some of the American, eco-hostile floor crushers.
Agreed! But there is no absolute truth in audio reproduction anyway. It is and was always about how good the musical intention (imagination, creativity, ... you name it) is conveyed to the listener. And without any real knowledge about the recording session and the studio procedures it is naive to assume anything true about the fact if something "sounds right or not".
Audio reproduction is an art in itself, like the music. It is fiction, no realism, no naturalism. When you read a good book which touches your heart, you do not think that is an assembly of frozen reality. You enjoy it because it touches your heart.
Naim amplifiers can do something similar with audio reproduction, like some other good amplifiers too. It might not be to everybodies taste, as tastes are different. I am long out of futile discussions why one amp is so much better than others. Some amps seemed to find a certain sweet spot, for reasons yet not fully discovered, and this fact makes my life a bit more happy.
Since the Naim clones i have made since the 80ies all sound different and at least slightly worse than the originals I might have been making mistakes again and again. There is definitely some truth in the experience that meticulous parts selection and the resulting synergy is part of the magic.
(One example: Naim selected the humble LM317 for the power supplies for noise and other parameters. Less than 10% could pass.)
Audio reproduction is an art in itself, like the music. It is fiction, no realism, no naturalism. When you read a good book which touches your heart, you do not think that is an assembly of frozen reality. You enjoy it because it touches your heart.
Naim amplifiers can do something similar with audio reproduction, like some other good amplifiers too. It might not be to everybodies taste, as tastes are different. I am long out of futile discussions why one amp is so much better than others. Some amps seemed to find a certain sweet spot, for reasons yet not fully discovered, and this fact makes my life a bit more happy.
Since the Naim clones i have made since the 80ies all sound different and at least slightly worse than the originals I might have been making mistakes again and again. There is definitely some truth in the experience that meticulous parts selection and the resulting synergy is part of the magic.
(One example: Naim selected the humble LM317 for the power supplies for noise and other parameters. Less than 10% could pass.)