Plenty of options, no doubt about that. But i couldn't find any 12" woofer with higher excursion than XXLS-P835017 in its price range.
XXLS-300F50AL01-04 keeps the same good xmax but adds some slightly higher SPL, slightly better deep extension and even a lower price...
SEAS L26RO4Y (used in LX521 speakers) has higher xmax, but lower diameter (10") and higher price... Would it be better?
XXLS-300F50AL01-04 keeps the same good xmax but adds some slightly higher SPL, slightly better deep extension and even a lower price...
SEAS L26RO4Y (used in LX521 speakers) has higher xmax, but lower diameter (10") and higher price... Would it be better?
John K referenced this AES paper Low-frequency Polar Pattern Control for Improved In-room Response
In a post regarding the frequency range below the first mode.
Sparsely modal => Cardioid
Modal => Monopole
And once you reach modal you want to separate it from your main channels anyway.
It seems GR Research 12" woofers are very good for OB speakers/subs, with an higher xmax and a not-so-impossible price.
The problem is finding them on sale here in Europe, again... Anyone knows if this can be done?
Hello fellow Nao Note2rs listeners. After less than 5 years of service, looks like my miniDSP 4x10HD has bitten the dust. Before I purchase a replacement, I am wondering if anyone has used any other DSP solution for the Nao Note 2rs; when it was working, it was great. However, now that it has broken once, I am worried about another unit malfunctioning again and, further, that at some point in the future, minidsp may discontinue the 4x10HD.
Now obviously if I knew how to program crossovers myself, that would offer me many options -- for the note and any number of other designs (this is after all, diyaudio.com). However, I do not know much about xo design and, though I am impressed by everyone with their knowledge and desire to learn, I don't know if I'm ready to devote so much time to a new hobby.
So I guess I am wondering if anyone has implemented the nao note 2rs xo using something other than the miniDSP platform.
The best thing I can think of (other than learning to design speakers and program crossovers), is some sort of open-source platform that can run on any number of commodity hardware (raspberry pi, etc.) thus alleviating the potential problems that come with something proprietary like miniDSP. Has anyone done anything like this?
But maybe I should just get another miniDSP 4x10HD so I can be listening to music again asap!
Now obviously if I knew how to program crossovers myself, that would offer me many options -- for the note and any number of other designs (this is after all, diyaudio.com). However, I do not know much about xo design and, though I am impressed by everyone with their knowledge and desire to learn, I don't know if I'm ready to devote so much time to a new hobby.
So I guess I am wondering if anyone has implemented the nao note 2rs xo using something other than the miniDSP platform.
The best thing I can think of (other than learning to design speakers and program crossovers), is some sort of open-source platform that can run on any number of commodity hardware (raspberry pi, etc.) thus alleviating the potential problems that come with something proprietary like miniDSP. Has anyone done anything like this?
But maybe I should just get another miniDSP 4x10HD so I can be listening to music again asap!
One option can be PC based DSP like Equalizer APO or others, it is more universal than dedicated DSP devices.
To get rid of Windows audio problems can be used Voicemeeter with ASIO or Linux based software DSP.
For filters and EQ design is possible to use rePhase and REW what together can generate FIR type filters and EQ sets in semiautomatic way..
Then you can also use what ever DAC you like, not one built in on DSP unit.
To get rid of Windows audio problems can be used Voicemeeter with ASIO or Linux based software DSP.
For filters and EQ design is possible to use rePhase and REW what together can generate FIR type filters and EQ sets in semiautomatic way..
Then you can also use what ever DAC you like, not one built in on DSP unit.
I am using PC-based digital crossover. The measurement and crossover design was done in Audiolense, which feed the convolver inside JRiver.
From JRiver USB output to Motu Monitor 8 with 8 channel DACs. The amp is the 12-channel ATI that Linkwitz recommended for Orion.
In my experience, PC-based digital crossover can improve the sound of Note II RS dramatically over minidsp solution, which I used initially. It is not even close. The clarity provided by the digital crossover is extraordinary.
From JRiver USB output to Motu Monitor 8 with 8 channel DACs. The amp is the 12-channel ATI that Linkwitz recommended for Orion.
In my experience, PC-based digital crossover can improve the sound of Note II RS dramatically over minidsp solution, which I used initially. It is not even close. The clarity provided by the digital crossover is extraordinary.
The Note II RS is a truly full-range speaker. I recently auditioned Perlisten s7t, Magico A5, and M2 in the same listening room. The bass quality and quantity from Note II RS blow away all three of them. For the rest of the frequency range. I would say Note II RS sits between the $25k A5 and $65k M2. The 65k M2 does have some magic up its sleeves. The Perlisten, despite great expectation, sits way down at the bottom. It is not really in the same league. The imaging precision/depth and clarify are really something with the M2. Both Note II RS and M2 give you the feeling of sound leaping out of total blackness. M2 has sharping imaging that is more up close, it also feels like having a sharper attack, probably due to the beryllium tweeter. Note II RS images a bit further away, more diffused, likely due to the nature of dipole. Note II RS just sounds so musical and so smooth. Listening to Wallflower on Note II feels like sitting next to a fireplace enjoying a really nice glass of whiskey. Both M2 and Note II RS give each recording a completely unique presentation - a sign of great transparency. Kudos to JohnK for a great design. Consider the cost to make this speaker, it makes it an even bigger bargain.
In terms of multichannel DAC, Okto DAC8 Pro is fantastic for a reasonable cost. Or you can go with proaudio interfaces as al2002 mentioned above.
In terms of multichannel DAC, Okto DAC8 Pro is fantastic for a reasonable cost. Or you can go with proaudio interfaces as al2002 mentioned above.
And the Note II RS was in the same room??? How did you manage this?!
Are you talking about the Bob Dylan tune? Performed by.... Diana Krall, maybe?
No, only s7t, A5 and A2 are in the same room. I do not have that magic 
But the lack of bass output vs Note II RS is extremely obvious. The s7t was burnt in only at about 100 hours. It was surprisingly weak, missing both the lower and mid bass. Maybe we have a pretty bad null at the listening position, but we tried to move laterally, the impression did not change. Myself and the dealer were both wondering what's going on. I guess it speaks to one major advantage of custom digital crossover. It was based on measurements at my house and my listening position. Normal passive speakers simply could not have that.
This album: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallflower_(Diana_Krall_album)
But the lack of bass output vs Note II RS is extremely obvious. The s7t was burnt in only at about 100 hours. It was surprisingly weak, missing both the lower and mid bass. Maybe we have a pretty bad null at the listening position, but we tried to move laterally, the impression did not change. Myself and the dealer were both wondering what's going on. I guess it speaks to one major advantage of custom digital crossover. It was based on measurements at my house and my listening position. Normal passive speakers simply could not have that.This album: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallflower_(Diana_Krall_album)
Well I recently listened to the current top of the line Revel speakers- Performa 3 Be F328Be and Dutch & Dutch 8c.
and was inspired to got a move on and finally finish off those NaO speakers.
1 NaO in mono beats the stereo F328Be
or stereo 8c.
and was inspired to got a move on and finally finish off those NaO speakers.
1 NaO in mono beats the stereo F328Be
or stereo 8c.
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One of my favorite D. Krall albums.No, only s7t, A5 and A2 are in the same room. I do not have that magic
This album: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallflower_(Diana_Krall_album)
Her rendition of How Can You Mend A Broken Heart on that album is also a gem -- makes it a new song altogether. Interesting about those speakers. I haven't heard them myself, but I do have an odd mix of LX521 & NaO Note IIRS -- mids from the NaO, with Aurum Cantus 2560 AMT tweeter in LX521 upper baffle atop SBA 10" NRX drivers in W-frame. Using one of John K's crossover configs in a mindsp 4x10 -- modified for the different drivers and measured response in my room. (Have also used xover configs for LX521, but the NaO configs are a better fit.) Measured performance is good but not outstanding; the subjective impression is excellent. Same response from at least a dozen listeners over the last couple years. It is not missing any bass, tho power handling at very low frequencies is a bit limited due to the EQ required for dipole bass.
(Might have to try different 10" drivers... tho admittedly the only tune in my collection that seems to bottom out the drivers at high volume is Already Dead from the American Beauty movie soundtrack by Thomas Newman. Hmm... 22mm p-p excursion on the SBA 10s looks pretty good, tho. Maybe it's my amp clipping, max out at 4 ohms is 100W -- for 2 bass drivers.)
Cheapest solution with good results can be get with ESI Gigaport eX and fanless mini PC, will cost little over 333 eur together. This PC is enough to run EQ APO with 6/8 channel FIR filters, Voicemeeter and Foobar2000 player. I had this kind setup working with full range OB.
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Your perception of the bass response from Magico and Perlisten is accurate. Just examine the measurements I obtained these measurements of these speakers from Stereophile, they are self-explanatory.
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Thanks to all for the replies about my initial question about minidsp alternatives. I sent my five-year-old minidsp back (unfortunately it got somewhat lost along the way to hong kong, and still hasn't reached its destination despite being sent off from Seattle on Jan 5th... but it appears to be moving along again) for evaluation/fixing, but I am also planning to go ahead and work out an alternative in case minidsp goes under or stops making the 4x10 unit.
Looks like kaameelis' suggestion of Eq APO + Voicemeeter on an adequate PC would be the cheapest way to get up and running something that can power the notes. Are there some "tutorials" are "guides" out there for EQ/filter design for an OB speaker like the Note? I don't know anything about it, and using the minidsp with JohnK's provided files was merely plug and play....
Thanks all.
Looks like kaameelis' suggestion of Eq APO + Voicemeeter on an adequate PC would be the cheapest way to get up and running something that can power the notes. Are there some "tutorials" are "guides" out there for EQ/filter design for an OB speaker like the Note? I don't know anything about it, and using the minidsp with JohnK's provided files was merely plug and play....
Thanks all.
Hey,
I have dabbled with dipoles and ended up purchasing plans to build a pair of Nao Note II RS a couple of years ago. I ended up moving and didn't have a place to put to the speakers so never build them. This is finally about to change and I'm starting to see what it would took to build a pair but I did run into sourcing issues for the Vifa tweeters:
The plan's call for 4x Vifa OX20SCSC00-04 which I'm not able to find online at all. Vifa now listed under Peerless only lists:
I have dabbled with dipoles and ended up purchasing plans to build a pair of Nao Note II RS a couple of years ago. I ended up moving and didn't have a place to put to the speakers so never build them. This is finally about to change and I'm starting to see what it would took to build a pair but I did run into sourcing issues for the Vifa tweeters:
The plan's call for 4x Vifa OX20SCSC00-04 which I'm not able to find online at all. Vifa now listed under Peerless only lists:
- OX20SC00-04
- OX20SC02-08
- OX20SC02-04 (discontinued)
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Hi, if you are in Europe, get a look at
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/dome-tweeter-peerless-ox20sc00-04-4-ohm-0-75-inch-voice-coil.html
They have some in stock now. BTW, John K. mentioned somewhere in this thread that just 2 of them would do the job due to 5KHz crossover.
Hi Ultramaroon,
This is probably quite a bit late... Yet, it looks like new Minidsp Flex 8 https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-flex-eight
may be ideal for the job. I think I would go this road if/when my 4x10hd gives up.