Fixed! (I hope)
So I get the Philips manual on PDF from John and poor over to figgure out the exact details then disasemble my CDI again and start testing.
First too see the current laser value. It measures 45 mv on track one so i bump it up to 50 then on another CD it's 54 so i bump it down again. Seems OK. - No change in skipping
I after a lot of work find the correct measuremant poing for the servo, and measure - should be 400 mv and is 1,2V? what the? is it the right point? checking... yes... hmmm.... try to adjust it but it is fluctuating... still skipping...
I try to study the scematic to analyze but no luck... I try a couple of CDs... same problem... i listen to the sound of the CD when it tries to find the track - cklick-tjick - cklick-tjick - cklick-tjick - cklick-tjick - hmmmm.
I try various rubber shims etc to get the CD to be still, no luck, hmmm.
I clean the laser lens and readjust the current, no joy.
Girlfirend says "Peter it's midnight" hmmmm
I dissasemble the mech and feel the spindle and - seems it's not running so freely as it perhaps should. I drop the screws and curse. Hmmm. Also it feels a bit worn and
Well what about a drop of oil? I oil the platcic bottom and the top bit.... re assemble and... at first no differnce but after a little while of playing it seems the machine is finding the tracks all the way up to 10 which was max on that CD - wow! - then it was late and i had to stop...
Could the extra friction be messing the the servo circuit? Not unlikeley!
Warning though ONE DROP is enough - i used three and that was too much... get good oil also!
A fuller report will follow when I have had time to test more fully this weekend!
Interesting eh?
So I get the Philips manual on PDF from John and poor over to figgure out the exact details then disasemble my CDI again and start testing.
First too see the current laser value. It measures 45 mv on track one so i bump it up to 50 then on another CD it's 54 so i bump it down again. Seems OK. - No change in skipping
I after a lot of work find the correct measuremant poing for the servo, and measure - should be 400 mv and is 1,2V? what the? is it the right point? checking... yes... hmmm.... try to adjust it but it is fluctuating... still skipping...
I try to study the scematic to analyze but no luck... I try a couple of CDs... same problem... i listen to the sound of the CD when it tries to find the track - cklick-tjick - cklick-tjick - cklick-tjick - cklick-tjick - hmmmm.
I try various rubber shims etc to get the CD to be still, no luck, hmmm.
I clean the laser lens and readjust the current, no joy.
Girlfirend says "Peter it's midnight" hmmmm
I dissasemble the mech and feel the spindle and - seems it's not running so freely as it perhaps should. I drop the screws and curse. Hmmm. Also it feels a bit worn and
Well what about a drop of oil? I oil the platcic bottom and the top bit.... re assemble and... at first no differnce but after a little while of playing it seems the machine is finding the tracks all the way up to 10 which was max on that CD - wow! - then it was late and i had to stop...
Could the extra friction be messing the the servo circuit? Not unlikeley!
Warning though ONE DROP is enough - i used three and that was too much... get good oil also!
A fuller report will follow when I have had time to test more fully this weekend!
Interesting eh?
Results of more testing
I put the machine back together and have played a lot of music this weeked and it seems like it's hapier after a bit of "break in".
So after some more testing I can say that the CDI now seems to work more or less as I want it - but I still get some ERRs - although some CD's which gave med ERRs work fine after cleaning so today I am enjoying the music.
When the machine was apart and it had trouble tracking i could get it to find the track by gently holding the puck and ever so gently breaking and stabilizing it... i am thinking that this could be wear of the motor or the bearing? The play affecting the servo controll loop? Anyone had any thoughts on this?
Anyone know if the motors interchangable from the various CDM units?
I am going to look again on the schematic to se if there are any measurement and/or adjusment points on the motor drive. After all it's a permanent magent type and i would be surprised if it didn't change a bit after 12+ years!
I have ordered a new puck and we will see if that fixes it! The dealer here said that magnet on the CD5i puck was stronger and that according to Naim it would degrade the sound so I should send it to them for a service etc. etc. but i stood my groud. Any opionons on this? I.e. stronger magenets degrading sound?
I will see when I get the puck what happens!
I put the machine back together and have played a lot of music this weeked and it seems like it's hapier after a bit of "break in".
So after some more testing I can say that the CDI now seems to work more or less as I want it - but I still get some ERRs - although some CD's which gave med ERRs work fine after cleaning so today I am enjoying the music.
When the machine was apart and it had trouble tracking i could get it to find the track by gently holding the puck and ever so gently breaking and stabilizing it... i am thinking that this could be wear of the motor or the bearing? The play affecting the servo controll loop? Anyone had any thoughts on this?
Anyone know if the motors interchangable from the various CDM units?
I am going to look again on the schematic to se if there are any measurement and/or adjusment points on the motor drive. After all it's a permanent magent type and i would be surprised if it didn't change a bit after 12+ years!
I have ordered a new puck and we will see if that fixes it! The dealer here said that magnet on the CD5i puck was stronger and that according to Naim it would degrade the sound so I should send it to them for a service etc. etc. but i stood my groud. Any opionons on this? I.e. stronger magenets degrading sound?
I will see when I get the puck what happens!
As I've stated several times in this thread, I have used the Naim CD5i puck for 8-9 months now and NEVER ONCE had a problem or one ERR message. Tracking is 100% fine, fast track access, no rattling noises from the machanism, and there is NO sound degradation. Of course Naim probably don't want people to use the Naim CD5i puck as it costs them an expensive repair, vs £6-7 for a new puck..... They are also very sensitive about anyone doing something 'out of the square' as far as their equipment is concerned. Makes me wonder how many perfectly good CDM4/27 mechanisms they've trashed and replaced over the years when really it was that silly puck to blame.... Whatever, I just enjoy the music coming from my CDI now.
I will add however that I recalibrated those adjustment pots while using the new puck just to be thorough. It even plays CD-rs now that it couldn't before. I'd never go back to the top-hat type puck now unless I wanted my mechanism to wear out prematurely....
Cheers,
- John
I will add however that I recalibrated those adjustment pots while using the new puck just to be thorough. It even plays CD-rs now that it couldn't before. I'd never go back to the top-hat type puck now unless I wanted my mechanism to wear out prematurely....
Cheers,
- John
follow up
John,
I just got a call from my service guy and he said that the laser appears to be working, but that it is not focusing, he thought the entire laser should be replaced, as it was a laser focus servo issue. I know you have said this before, but does that mean the cap replacement on the servo board could be a fix for this? I apologize for my ignorance, but I really appreciate your help and opinion (or anyone elses on the board). As you stated earlier in this thread the CDM4/19 would be acceptable for parts/boards/lasers for this type of repair?
thank you
Tim
John,
I just got a call from my service guy and he said that the laser appears to be working, but that it is not focusing, he thought the entire laser should be replaced, as it was a laser focus servo issue. I know you have said this before, but does that mean the cap replacement on the servo board could be a fix for this? I apologize for my ignorance, but I really appreciate your help and opinion (or anyone elses on the board). As you stated earlier in this thread the CDM4/19 would be acceptable for parts/boards/lasers for this type of repair?
thank you
Tim
Hi John,
Would it be possible for you to send me the service info as well? It's always nice to be able to set them up per the manual instead of guessing. My large email address is bhomester at gmail dot com.
I honestly couldn't add anything helpful to your posts, you've covered just about everything.
-Chris
I just saw your thread and was about to recommend replacing the caps on the servo board. Very common with all Philips mechs. That and the clamper bearings and pucks. Seems nothing ever changes.
Would it be possible for you to send me the service info as well? It's always nice to be able to set them up per the manual instead of guessing. My large email address is bhomester at gmail dot com.
I honestly couldn't add anything helpful to your posts, you've covered just about everything.
-Chris
still troubled
Hi,
My tech here in Seattle has done the capacitor replacement and still seems problems with the laser side of my CDS1. I have sourced a CDM4/19 laser transport (new) and have ordered that. Am i correct to assume that as long as he is using it for laser side and not motor work on my naim CDS1 that it should be able to provide the laser and board as needed for my player?
I'm starting to get a little worried here. A player that was $7000 new 10 years ago should not be sidelined by a $50 part.
Any help or new suggestions are much appreciated.
thank you
Tim
Hi,
My tech here in Seattle has done the capacitor replacement and still seems problems with the laser side of my CDS1. I have sourced a CDM4/19 laser transport (new) and have ordered that. Am i correct to assume that as long as he is using it for laser side and not motor work on my naim CDS1 that it should be able to provide the laser and board as needed for my player?
I'm starting to get a little worried here. A player that was $7000 new 10 years ago should not be sidelined by a $50 part.
Any help or new suggestions are much appreciated.
thank you
Tim
thank you, i will pass that along to him. I don't really understand how the transport breaks down into components, but I guess I am wondering if the cdm4/19 can be broken down to some major component level for the laser portion of the transport to replace what is in my player today. Maybe not just the laser, but obviously with leaving the motor in place, as that is an uncommon cdm4 version part. I also assume the version 19 and mine in the cds1 (a version 21 or 27 i think) would have different mounting locations. I guess it is a question of how people have used different cdm4 version transports to repair their transports on this board? thanks have a good weekend.
Tim
Tim
Hi Tim,
The slash code represented mechanism options. I haven't paid a great deal of attention to these as I found working on the earlier versions to be a pain (Revox, Marantz). I am sure there is some else who has more experience on these.
Most of my service has to do with servo problems and the odd broken flexible cable. But your tech should proceed by checking the simplest things first instead of jumping around.
-Chris
The slash code represented mechanism options. I haven't paid a great deal of attention to these as I found working on the earlier versions to be a pain (Revox, Marantz). I am sure there is some else who has more experience on these.
Most of my service has to do with servo problems and the odd broken flexible cable. But your tech should proceed by checking the simplest things first instead of jumping around.
-Chris
Still not working properly...
Hello!
Well after some more testing my CDI is still not working 100% - i ordered a new puck but didn't recieve it yet so that may fix things. The laser measures OK so i am wondering if it's the motor?
It seems to me that the permanent magnet would be demagnetized over the years and use... and that that could be it. Anyone have any theories/experiences about this?
If it is the motor what other motors could be used as replacement? Anyone have a spare motor?
The spindle on which the CD sits has a "cup" underneath and inside that there is a permanent magnet in the shape of a ring.
I am thinking about remagnetizing the ring... but I don't know exactly how it's magnetized - anyone know how this works?
A magnetizer is "easy" to build - some copper wire and a big capacitor!
I have been reading up on brushless DC motors here
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/electricCircuits/AC/AC_13.html#02461.png
And here
http://www.s-line.de/homepages/bosch/sensorless/node9.html
Ideas?
/Peter
Hello!
Well after some more testing my CDI is still not working 100% - i ordered a new puck but didn't recieve it yet so that may fix things. The laser measures OK so i am wondering if it's the motor?
It seems to me that the permanent magnet would be demagnetized over the years and use... and that that could be it. Anyone have any theories/experiences about this?
If it is the motor what other motors could be used as replacement? Anyone have a spare motor?
The spindle on which the CD sits has a "cup" underneath and inside that there is a permanent magnet in the shape of a ring.
I am thinking about remagnetizing the ring... but I don't know exactly how it's magnetized - anyone know how this works?
A magnetizer is "easy" to build - some copper wire and a big capacitor!
I have been reading up on brushless DC motors here
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/electricCircuits/AC/AC_13.html#02461.png
And here
http://www.s-line.de/homepages/bosch/sensorless/node9.html
Ideas?
/Peter
OK,
I will get my scope out and test it - do you know what to look for? I.e. what is good waveform/voltages? And what is the characteristic of bad?
When I had the CD player apart and it "acted up" i.e. unsucsessfully trying to find a track I tried to gently pinch the puck to brake it somewat - and then it mostly found the track.
There is a trimpot by the motor also - anyone know what that one does?
Could be unrelated though...
/Peter
I will get my scope out and test it - do you know what to look for? I.e. what is good waveform/voltages? And what is the characteristic of bad?
When I had the CD player apart and it "acted up" i.e. unsucsessfully trying to find a track I tried to gently pinch the puck to brake it somewat - and then it mostly found the track.
There is a trimpot by the motor also - anyone know what that one does?
Could be unrelated though...
/Peter
Hi Peter,
A defective wave form will have a characteristic with an exception. Could be a missing section of pulse or a higher part depending on whether it has a shorted or open winding. A brushless motor still has coils that can be tested.
I don't have any clue what that pot might do, I don't have any service information. A general rule of thumb is to leave all adjustments alone. It worked with them in their current positions so something else is at fault.
Do not adjust anything without a very good reason! That and you need to know precisely what you are doing!
-Chris
A defective wave form will have a characteristic with an exception. Could be a missing section of pulse or a higher part depending on whether it has a shorted or open winding. A brushless motor still has coils that can be tested.
I don't have any clue what that pot might do, I don't have any service information. A general rule of thumb is to leave all adjustments alone. It worked with them in their current positions so something else is at fault.
Do not adjust anything without a very good reason! That and you need to know precisely what you are doing!
-Chris
Hi boys, I've a similar problem because I bought a NAIM CDi in ebay a little time ago and now the player, when I insert a cd, try to read it and then it writes an error message. NAIM assistance says that the problem is that the lens in exhausted. As I found here, I should have the CDM4/27 mechanic. I found a CDM4/19. Really if I replace the laser it will work again ? What are the differences between mechanics ?
The assistance said to me that often similar mechanics didn't work on NAIM players.
Please help me !!!
The assistance said to me that often similar mechanics didn't work on NAIM players.
Please help me !!!
Sorry to revive such an old thread
I recently moved house, and decided to set up my Naim gear again (previous house didn't allow me to do this - too small).
I too am seeing the CD skipping and ERR'ing issue on my CDI. I decided to do a quick search for nextel ring fixes. Im pretty sure the nextel ring is the issue with my CDI, as trying the rubber glove trick fixes it 80% of the time...
I noticed someone say on here that the Naim CD5i puck fixes this problem?
I have a few questions regarding this:
1. Does anyone know of somewhere to get hold of a CD5i puck?
2. It appears Naim sell the CD5si puck as a spare part. Was there a difference with the CD5i and the CD5si puck, and if not will the CD5si puck do the trick?
3. Do i need to attempt to replace the magnet part on the transport as well as the puck itself? My guess is no, but figured I'd ask anyway
Many Thanks!
I recently moved house, and decided to set up my Naim gear again (previous house didn't allow me to do this - too small).
I too am seeing the CD skipping and ERR'ing issue on my CDI. I decided to do a quick search for nextel ring fixes. Im pretty sure the nextel ring is the issue with my CDI, as trying the rubber glove trick fixes it 80% of the time...
I noticed someone say on here that the Naim CD5i puck fixes this problem?
I have a few questions regarding this:
1. Does anyone know of somewhere to get hold of a CD5i puck?
2. It appears Naim sell the CD5si puck as a spare part. Was there a difference with the CD5i and the CD5si puck, and if not will the CD5si puck do the trick?
3. Do i need to attempt to replace the magnet part on the transport as well as the puck itself? My guess is no, but figured I'd ask anyway
Many Thanks!
Ad - if you are in the UK maybe contact James at Tom Tom (I have no affiliation but they are very helpful)
Naim Pucks for sale
And no, you leave the turntable magnet alone.
Naim Pucks for sale
And no, you leave the turntable magnet alone.
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