Good idea, Benedetto.
But, maybe, you should have posted it on the new thread...
You're absolutely right
Audyn True Copper
Hi!
I see that some of you have tried the Audyn True Copper, and that ClaveFremen really liked it. But in a post in february, he claimed that OCC Copper is the best - what cap is that? (Orange County Chopper?
I intend to use use 1,5uF True Copper with 0,022uF russian teflon FT-1 for my Lehmann BCL clone. May that be a good synergy?
How about the value of the Audyn TC, is it well worth it´s price?
Also, I´ve heard people saying the TC will not need so much burn in, less than 50 hours is ok - and it will not change any much in the sound.
And for the signal direction for TC, is there a "right way" for it? The manufacturer Intertehnik say it should go the same way as the text of the housing.
Best regards: Mikael Markstrom
Hi!
I see that some of you have tried the Audyn True Copper, and that ClaveFremen really liked it. But in a post in february, he claimed that OCC Copper is the best - what cap is that? (Orange County Chopper?
I intend to use use 1,5uF True Copper with 0,022uF russian teflon FT-1 for my Lehmann BCL clone. May that be a good synergy?
How about the value of the Audyn TC, is it well worth it´s price?
Also, I´ve heard people saying the TC will not need so much burn in, less than 50 hours is ok - and it will not change any much in the sound.
And for the signal direction for TC, is there a "right way" for it? The manufacturer Intertehnik say it should go the same way as the text of the housing.
Best regards: Mikael Markstrom
Hi!
I see that some of you have tried the Audyn True Copper, and that ClaveFremen really liked it. But in a post in february, he claimed that OCC Copper is the best - what cap is that? (Orange County Chopper?
I intend to use use 1,5uF True Copper with 0,022uF russian teflon FT-1 for my Lehmann BCL clone. May that be a good synergy?
How about the value of the Audyn TC, is it well worth it´s price?
Also, I´ve heard people saying the TC will not need so much burn in, less than 50 hours is ok - and it will not change any much in the sound.
And for the signal direction for TC, is there a "right way" for it? The manufacturer Intertehnik say it should go the same way as the text of the housing.
Best regards: Mikael Markstrom
Hi Mikael,
Although there a lots of guys on the My_Ref forums that have tried and liked the Audyn TC, you need to be aware that there are two TCs that I understand sound a little different. The earlier blue color TC was the one that many liked and thought very neutral. The later copper colored TC is said to sound good, but a little different.
On a different thread, Dario (ClaveFremen) just posted that he currently likes the Mundorf Supreme, but I will let him comment on the difference. I'm in the process of trying a Supreme myself and it is a nice cap. If you like the Supreme, it has the advantage of lower cost.
As for me, I borrowed a blue TC almost two year ago, but it was early in my cap listening, so I won't try to comment too much. My one thought is that I doubt that you will need the teflon bypass cap with the TC. It has nice detail and soundstage with a nice sparkle on top. You should know that I'm a guy that likes to use bypass caps and I still don't think it's needed with these.
Have fun.
Jac
Initially, to my ears they tend to over-emphasize detail, adding a touch of harshness.
I prefer Mundorf Supreme now.
But in a post in february, he claimed that OCC Copper is the best - what cap is that? (Orange County Chopper?
OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast) is a type of metal processing and apply mainly to copper and silver.
Obviously it's not a capacitor...
Sure, as all wound caps the outer foil determine a preferred direction.
Sadly the blue TCs I've tryed had no consistent marking... one had the outer foil toward markings and the other the opposite.
PS
This is an old thread....
Might be an old thread, but I can't let this go without comment.
Dario, you "initially" thought the TC cap was the best you had heard, made it the preferred cap for the MyRef, and designed your PCB to accommodate it. It was only after some time that you came to believe it is harsh with too much detail. I can understand changing your mind about a component after listening to it for a long time, but you are the only person I have ever seen make that evaluation of the TC.
I agree that Mundorf capacitors have some excellent sonic qualities, but sometimes I think one factor that strongly impresses people is the word "MUNDORF" on the label. It's hard to believe that an aluminized plastic cap sounds better than a true film and copper foil. I have tried the Mundorf Silver/Oil cap in the MyRef C, and it is not the equal of the TC. Perhaps the Supreme is more balanced than the slight treble emphasis of the S/O.
Peace,
Tom E
Dario, you "initially" thought the TC cap was the best you had heard, made it the preferred cap for the MyRef, and designed your PCB to accommodate it. It was only after some time that you came to believe it is harsh with too much detail. I can understand changing your mind about a component after listening to it for a long time, but you are the only person I have ever seen make that evaluation of the TC.
I agree that Mundorf capacitors have some excellent sonic qualities, but sometimes I think one factor that strongly impresses people is the word "MUNDORF" on the label. It's hard to believe that an aluminized plastic cap sounds better than a true film and copper foil. I have tried the Mundorf Silver/Oil cap in the MyRef C, and it is not the equal of the TC. Perhaps the Supreme is more balanced than the slight treble emphasis of the S/O.
Peace,
Tom E
Hi Tom,
nevertheless it's my present opinion, so if someone is quoting a previous opinion of mine I've changed my mind about I have to report it.
As much as I hate to admit it, I lean toward believing there is credibility in how age impacts hearing. Recently I did a slow sweep test for myself and lost the signal around 15 K. Dario - being just a mere babe in the woods - may be experiencing a wider spectrum.
I think that's another reason to individually tweak an amp build to "what sounds best" and not get stuck on what a lab/scope or other's experience might suggest. We "old dudes" may need a brighter set to get to what we feel is the sweet spot.
- may be experiencing a wider spectrum.I think that's another reason to individually tweak an amp build to "what sounds best" and not get stuck on what a lab/scope or other's experience might suggest. We "old dudes" may need a brighter set to get to what we feel is the sweet spot.
Recently I did a slow sweep test for myself and lost the signal around 15 K. Dario - being just a mere babe in the woods
At 42 I'm not exactly a baby...
BTW I've also did recently a earing test on the web and I can barely hear 17 KHz
Perhaps, but for now let's just pretend we can hear 20 kHz and enjoy the music.
That's a good point. I'm not afraid to admit that my hearing is significantly impaired due to age and prolonged exposure to an industrial environment, plus high-volume headphone listening in my 20's and 30's. That certainly could be a factor affecting perception of high frequencies.
HOWEVER, Dario and I, and many others, frequently agreed in the past on what made the MyRef sound better, so there is reason to expect some common experience despite differing sensory acuity. It is my belief that harshness and excessive brightness and false detail all originate in the band between 2500 and 5000 hz. I can certainly still detect that. You don't need to hear dog whistles to perceive crappy sound. There is very little important musical information above 9K or so. Beyond that, it's all low energy harmonics, some distortion, and noise. Midrange detail is readily apparent if you know what to listen for. Separation of instruments and 3D projection are also considerably independent of extended high frequency hearing. Most tweeters contribute offensive distortion not at the top of their range, but at the bottom of it.
In addition, I regularly invite other audiophiles with better hearing to participate in evaluating critical components. In other words, we party and listen critically to tunes.
I don't mean to pick a fight here, and Dario, you certainly have the right to change your opinion about anything and a sort of duty to report it here. I think that has happened to all of us. But it is confusing to me, and perhaps others, that an opinion can change so completely, especially when that opinion is not commonly shared but still carries considerable import because of your stature here. If everyone, or even one other, came back after extensive listening to say a part turned out to be junk, it would be easier to understand and agree.
It is nice that we can all tailor our equipment to suit our taste, and that we have this place to share our own impressions among friends, even the old ones.
Peace,
Tom E
HOWEVER, Dario and I, and many others, frequently agreed in the past on what made the MyRef sound better, so there is reason to expect some common experience despite differing sensory acuity. It is my belief that harshness and excessive brightness and false detail all originate in the band between 2500 and 5000 hz. I can certainly still detect that. You don't need to hear dog whistles to perceive crappy sound. There is very little important musical information above 9K or so. Beyond that, it's all low energy harmonics, some distortion, and noise. Midrange detail is readily apparent if you know what to listen for. Separation of instruments and 3D projection are also considerably independent of extended high frequency hearing. Most tweeters contribute offensive distortion not at the top of their range, but at the bottom of it.
In addition, I regularly invite other audiophiles with better hearing to participate in evaluating critical components. In other words, we party and listen critically to tunes.
I don't mean to pick a fight here, and Dario, you certainly have the right to change your opinion about anything and a sort of duty to report it here. I think that has happened to all of us. But it is confusing to me, and perhaps others, that an opinion can change so completely, especially when that opinion is not commonly shared but still carries considerable import because of your stature here. If everyone, or even one other, came back after extensive listening to say a part turned out to be junk, it would be easier to understand and agree.
It is nice that we can all tailor our equipment to suit our taste, and that we have this place to share our own impressions among friends, even the old ones.
Peace,
Tom E
Tom, you're scaring me.
I'm trying my best to resist the temptation to jump back into speaker design/construction (though I do have the possibility of a new TL threatening).... and you are not helping with that information.
Over the past couple weeks I've done a lot of swapping between some 2-way and 3-way speakers, as well as the FEs and some Pass discrete builds. Though the FEs are still 'king of the hill' for me, the speaker swaps have been the most dramatic and revealing.Over the past few years I have spent much of my time building or listening to no less than ten DIY and commercial amp designs. I think I have exhausted that path (for my budget and environment) and am hoping to soon spend some time using a couple pieces of equipment or software that helps define what I'm hearing in my version of the sweet spot(s). Will still trust my ears primarily, but it will be interesting to get a graphical representation of what that is. Something like the Audyssey technology - in reverse.
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It's not so. I still think TCs have very strong points, like transparence and near perfect timbre.
But also a problem that, at least in my system, is really annoying and it's not present on most other caps and DC coupling.
It can be easily checked doing the same tests I did, all it's needed is:
- TCs
- copper wire
- faston tabs and receptacles
Hey D, I'll do the test when I get the build with the TCs back. Looks like it will be near the end of this month. I'm using the betas with Audyn Plus for now. Might try it there if I know it's safe. I'm feeding the FEs direct from the Subbu DAC. Just insure there is no DC on the DAC output and jumper the cap position on the board - correct?
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It's safe to DC couple when you have 0V DC (until 5 mV it's still good) at source/preamp output.
You will need to mount faston tabs on C13 pads and faston receptacles on wire and caps.
In that way you can replace the cap with wire, fast and easy.
Faston tabs: Mouser 534-1267
Faston receptacle: Mouser 571-60197-1
Well, I was successful in not blowing anything up, but it will take more time to understand what I am hearing, Using my own test mix track (same as used in both beta and RC build process) I can hear differences compared to the DC couple. If DCC is to be considered "pure", the Plus caps do impose a slight veil. First impression is the upper mids near the crossover to the tweeter is most significantly effected. The very top (cymbals/fret noise) may hold more color with DCC, but that might be a trad-off against a bit wider and more (seemingly) transparent presentation the Pluses prresent.
Bottom line - this will take more serious and long term listening than I anticipated. I still have the Mundorf ZNs and will buy some Mundorf Supremes later this week. When Uriah returns the amp with the TCs I'll dedicate a big chunk of time and report back. This is 1.5mm Mundorf wire, and I might play around with Cat6 and the small silver coated stranded from ApexJr during the extended tests. Doubt I'll hear anything - but what the heck.
BTW- the Subbu DAC reads absolute zero DC on it's outputs. If I need a pre - a couple months ago I added an 02 headphone amp that is the closest I have heard to the purity of Uriah's LighterNote. It is battery powered.
Will be fun to explore this new DCC option knowing that stinky green smoke won't fill the room.
Bottom line - this will take more serious and long term listening than I anticipated. I still have the Mundorf ZNs and will buy some Mundorf Supremes later this week. When Uriah returns the amp with the TCs I'll dedicate a big chunk of time and report back. This is 1.5mm Mundorf wire, and I might play around with Cat6 and the small silver coated stranded from ApexJr during the extended tests. Doubt I'll hear anything - but what the heck.
BTW- the Subbu DAC reads absolute zero DC on it's outputs. If I need a pre - a couple months ago I added an 02 headphone amp that is the closest I have heard to the purity of Uriah's LighterNote. It is battery powered.
Will be fun to explore this new DCC option knowing that stinky green smoke won't fill the room.
Attachments
This is 1.5mm Mundorf wire, and I might play around with Cat6 and the small silver coated stranded from ApexJr during the extended tests. Doubt I'll hear anything - but what the heck.
Maybe you'll discover that evern wire has a preferred direction...
Prefer solid wire over stranded one.
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