Finally, an update on my experiments with ultrasonic cleaning... Nothing in the way of a controlled test yet, but just some immediate reactions for my first 5 records: YES. I think this is going to work!
At long last I was able to take time last night to get everything built and tested. Today I made my first mix of base cleaning solution and mixed up my first actual tank of US solution.
Initial reactions from listening to my first 5 sacrificial records, all ancient movie tracks that have seen a lot of use:
I'm pleased with the cleaning solution mix and with the DI water for rinsing. Some more experimentation with the mix may come, but so far this mix seems VERY good. And, at some point I'll do some listening tests with Type 1 Reagent grade water and a touch of ethanol as the final rinse step.
At long last I was able to take time last night to get everything built and tested. Today I made my first mix of base cleaning solution and mixed up my first actual tank of US solution.
Initial reactions from listening to my first 5 sacrificial records, all ancient movie tracks that have seen a lot of use:
- Cleaning five LPs with a double rinse and vac dry went quite fast
- No damage (Yay!)
- Clean - not hearing surface noise from grunge in the grooves
- High frequencies seem intact, not rolled off
- Timbre and harmonics coming through okay (as much as can be determined from these old LPs). A more controlled test with some better records still needed.
- Listening now to The Big Chill soundtrack. Pretty good.
I'm pleased with the cleaning solution mix and with the DI water for rinsing. Some more experimentation with the mix may come, but so far this mix seems VERY good. And, at some point I'll do some listening tests with Type 1 Reagent grade water and a touch of ethanol as the final rinse step.
Last edited:
The cleaning solution I ended up with for my US tank has changed a bit since I posted a few weeks ago. The solution I'm using now that I'm very pleased with is:
I'm pre-mixing the Tergitol and Hepastat with a small amount of alcohol to easily get the Tergitol into solution. I'll store that mix in quantities sufficient to mix up 4-5 new US tanks before having to mix more.
- 0.13% Tergitol S-15-3 and S-15-9 in a 50/50 proportion (some use Triton X-100 as a simpler alternative)
- 0.10% Hepastat 256 (a 1:1000 dilution)
- 5.00% isoprophyl alchohol (using 91% grade)
I'm pre-mixing the Tergitol and Hepastat with a small amount of alcohol to easily get the Tergitol into solution. I'll store that mix in quantities sufficient to mix up 4-5 new US tanks before having to mix more.
I've now cleaned over 40 LPs using the cleaning fluid formulation described in post #1467 for my ultrasonic cleaning. The results are outstanding. Better than any other US tank cleaning fluid mix that I've tried before and far better than "isopropyl with a bit of clear dishwashing liquid" used in my earliest US trials.
The key characteristics I'm hearing with this fluid and ultrasonic cleaning (using a 40khz tank, 35 degree celsius heating, approximately 3 revolutions in 10 minutes, double high purity water rinse and vacuum dry between rinses and filtering the tank water between each batch of LPs) are:
What I do know for sure is that the sound quality result using the US and this detergent solution is very very good and it's significantly FASTER to clean a batch of records. With 6,000 records to clean, I look forward to the faster cleaning times with comparable results.
The key characteristics I'm hearing with this fluid and ultrasonic cleaning (using a 40khz tank, 35 degree celsius heating, approximately 3 revolutions in 10 minutes, double high purity water rinse and vacuum dry between rinses and filtering the tank water between each batch of LPs) are:
- Absolutely no audible damage to the grooves, no high frequency dulling or roll-off
- Dead silent background (on records not previously groove-damaged)
- Excellent reveal of transients, harmonic overtones and timbre
- A great sense of openness to the sonic image and soundstage
What I do know for sure is that the sound quality result using the US and this detergent solution is very very good and it's significantly FASTER to clean a batch of records. With 6,000 records to clean, I look forward to the faster cleaning times with comparable results.
Sundoger, I have not built bbftx's Version 3 using the magnet connection for the spindle, but I have looked carefully at his design before. Here's a suggestion as to what the magnet with the shaft actually connects to: it is the the roller chain sprocket B0045JJNRI 1/4" ID, 1.25" OD referenced about two-thirds of the way down the left column of the parts list. The Notes in the right column for this part states
Use some steel scrap or a small iron/steel gear, 1/4" ID, to mount on the short shaft using a set screw. Your magnetic spindle will mount on this disc, so match diameter of this disc to diameter of your magnet.
If you look carefully at the photo of the parts laid out on the floor that bbftx has posted, you will see this black sprocket disk in the lower left quarter of the picture next to the magnet socket.
Last edited:
Vinyl Record Spin Controller
Here is an Arduino project I've started working on that may be useful to this forum.
I found an inexpensive Stepper Motor with the Driver board at Marlin P. Jones & Associates (mpja.com) #31592MP and also an Arduino Pro Mini #31355MP .
View attachment 575031
I found and open source code from driving these stepper motors and modified the code so that it will turn one full rotation in one direction then reverse one full rotation and stop. It takes approximately 6 minutes to complete both rotations (3 minutes forward, 3 minutes backwards).
For those who are familiar with Arduino, it is an inexpensive solution to rotating your vinyl records thru the ultrasonic bath.
PLEASE NOTE: I will not be able to provide assistance with programming. This is only for those who know how to use Arduino .
here is the code:
/* YourDuino.com Example Software Sketch
Small Stepper Motor 28BYJ48 and Driver V1.4 11/30/2013
Modified by Louis Steele of VIBRATO, LLC for Vinyl Record Cleaner Rotation.
Steps one revolution of output shaft, then reverses back
one revoltution, and stops. Takes approximately 6 minutes to
complete both revolutions (approx 3 minutes Forward, 3 minutes Reverse).
To restart the rotation, press the Reset Switch on the Arduino board.
Parts used and bought from Marlin P. Jones and Associates
Electronic Components and Accessories | MPJA.COM 1)#31355MP Arduino Pro Mini 2)#31592MP Stepmotor 5v and Driver Board
For programming the Pro Mini, the Adafruit FTDI Serial USB Cable is necessary (ID#70)
available from adafruit.com
*/
/*-----( Import needed libraries )-----*/
#include <Stepper.h>
/*-----( Declare Constants, Pin Numbers )-----*/
//---( Number of steps per revolution of INTERNAL motor in 4-step mode )---
#define STEPS_PER_MOTOR_REVOLUTION 32
//---( Steps per OUTPUT SHAFT of gear reduction )---
#define STEPS_PER_OUTPUT_REVOLUTION 32 * 64 //2048
/*-----( Declare objects )-----*/
// create an instance of the stepper class, specifying
// the number of steps of the motor and the pins it's
// attached to
//The pin connections need to be 4 pins connected
// to Motor Driver In1, In2, In3, In4 and then the pins entered
// here in the sequence 1-3-2-4 for proper sequencing
Stepper small_stepper(STEPS_PER_MOTOR_REVOLUTION, 8, 10, 9, 11);
/*-----( Declare Variables )-----*/
int Steps2Take;
void setup() /*----( SETUP: RUNS ONCE )----*/
{
// Nothing (Stepper Library sets pins as outputs)
}/*--(end setup )---*/
void loop() /*----( LOOP: RUNS CONSTANTLY )----*/
{
Steps2Take = STEPS_PER_OUTPUT_REVOLUTION ; // Rotate CW 1 turn
small_stepper.setSpeed(20); // higher number for faster rotation, lower number for slower rotation
small_stepper.step(Steps2Take);
delay(1000);
Steps2Take = - STEPS_PER_OUTPUT_REVOLUTION; // Rotate CCW 1 turn
small_stepper.setSpeed(20); // Sets overall speed
small_stepper.step(Steps2Take);
delay(2000);
while(1);
}/* --(end main loop )-- */
/* ( THE END ) */
Here is an Arduino project I've started working on that may be useful to this forum.
I found an inexpensive Stepper Motor with the Driver board at Marlin P. Jones & Associates (mpja.com) #31592MP and also an Arduino Pro Mini #31355MP .
View attachment 575031
I found and open source code from driving these stepper motors and modified the code so that it will turn one full rotation in one direction then reverse one full rotation and stop. It takes approximately 6 minutes to complete both rotations (3 minutes forward, 3 minutes backwards).
For those who are familiar with Arduino, it is an inexpensive solution to rotating your vinyl records thru the ultrasonic bath.
PLEASE NOTE: I will not be able to provide assistance with programming. This is only for those who know how to use Arduino .
here is the code:
/* YourDuino.com Example Software Sketch
Small Stepper Motor 28BYJ48 and Driver V1.4 11/30/2013
Modified by Louis Steele of VIBRATO, LLC for Vinyl Record Cleaner Rotation.
Steps one revolution of output shaft, then reverses back
one revoltution, and stops. Takes approximately 6 minutes to
complete both revolutions (approx 3 minutes Forward, 3 minutes Reverse).
To restart the rotation, press the Reset Switch on the Arduino board.
Parts used and bought from Marlin P. Jones and Associates
Electronic Components and Accessories | MPJA.COM 1)#31355MP Arduino Pro Mini 2)#31592MP Stepmotor 5v and Driver Board
For programming the Pro Mini, the Adafruit FTDI Serial USB Cable is necessary (ID#70)
available from adafruit.com
*/
/*-----( Import needed libraries )-----*/
#include <Stepper.h>
/*-----( Declare Constants, Pin Numbers )-----*/
//---( Number of steps per revolution of INTERNAL motor in 4-step mode )---
#define STEPS_PER_MOTOR_REVOLUTION 32
//---( Steps per OUTPUT SHAFT of gear reduction )---
#define STEPS_PER_OUTPUT_REVOLUTION 32 * 64 //2048
/*-----( Declare objects )-----*/
// create an instance of the stepper class, specifying
// the number of steps of the motor and the pins it's
// attached to
//The pin connections need to be 4 pins connected
// to Motor Driver In1, In2, In3, In4 and then the pins entered
// here in the sequence 1-3-2-4 for proper sequencing
Stepper small_stepper(STEPS_PER_MOTOR_REVOLUTION, 8, 10, 9, 11);
/*-----( Declare Variables )-----*/
int Steps2Take;
void setup() /*----( SETUP: RUNS ONCE )----*/
{
// Nothing (Stepper Library sets pins as outputs)
}/*--(end setup )---*/
void loop() /*----( LOOP: RUNS CONSTANTLY )----*/
{
Steps2Take = STEPS_PER_OUTPUT_REVOLUTION ; // Rotate CW 1 turn
small_stepper.setSpeed(20); // higher number for faster rotation, lower number for slower rotation
small_stepper.step(Steps2Take);
delay(1000);
Steps2Take = - STEPS_PER_OUTPUT_REVOLUTION; // Rotate CCW 1 turn
small_stepper.setSpeed(20); // Sets overall speed
small_stepper.step(Steps2Take);
delay(2000);
while(1);
}/* --(end main loop )-- */
/* ( THE END ) */
I started considering building my own US cleaner and I have a question.....how are you attaching the transducers to the pan? The teansducers that I have found look to have threaded sockets at the top. Are ready made pans available with the screw fittings in the bottom?
It seems to me that if you use something like epoxy, with the heat and vibration you would end up with a joint that will fail eventually. A screw head fitting would seem to make a far better interface.
Any advice would be welcome.
It seems to me that if you use something like epoxy, with the heat and vibration you would end up with a joint that will fail eventually. A screw head fitting would seem to make a far better interface.
Any advice would be welcome.
A good high temp epoxy. LOCTITE EA 9340 Epoxy Structural Adhesive, High Temperature, and suitable surface preparation should be up to the job
https://www.bjultrasonic.com/ultrasonic-technical-info/ultrasonic-transducer-technical/
regards
james
https://www.bjultrasonic.com/ultrasonic-technical-info/ultrasonic-transducer-technical/
regards
james
Hey guys, I am wondering if it would be viable just to;
A) Buy a 20 Litre 40Khz ultrasonic unit with an inner tank size of 530mm (L) x 325mm (W) x 150mm (H).
B) Attach a 4" suction dent puller to each side of the record to cover and protect the label.
C) Put 75mm/13 litres of Isopropyl/distilled water into tank.
D) Insert B into A and clean for 5 minutes.
Not very technical, I know. But would it work?
A) Buy a 20 Litre 40Khz ultrasonic unit with an inner tank size of 530mm (L) x 325mm (W) x 150mm (H).
B) Attach a 4" suction dent puller to each side of the record to cover and protect the label.
C) Put 75mm/13 litres of Isopropyl/distilled water into tank.
D) Insert B into A and clean for 5 minutes.
Not very technical, I know. But would it work?
LenJo, it should work. But, I suggest you shoot for about 5-6% alcohol in your tank; 75ml per 13L is such a high dilution you're not getting any benefit from the cleaning effects the alcohol can provide. I'd also recommend including some Triton X-100 or other Tergitol in the tank solution.
Keep in mind: the cleaning solution in an ultrasonic tank is important to effective results. Ultrasonic cavitation is simply the scrubbing action; the tank needs a cleaning solution for greatest effectiveness.
Summary of Rushton's cleaning process
This has been a great thread started by bbftx. I've learned a lot and I've hugely benefited from the sharing of everyone's experience. Thank you!
While all of my research (both here and in other forums) and experimentation is fresh on my mind, I decided to capture it in a letter to David Robinson at Positive Feedback in hopes he might find something of interest or value that he could apply and perhaps publish as a letter from a reader. David elected to publish it as a guest essay. I trust you will find that I've given appropriate credits to this thread and everyone who is contributing.
Rushton Paul: My DIY Approach to the Ultrasonic Cleaning of LPs - Positive Feedback
Writing this up also helped me clarify in my own mind this regimen and what's really making a difference. The essay summarizes what I am currently doing in my cleaning process. It is giving me the best sonic results I have been able to achieve in over 40 years of cleaning records.
This has been a great thread started by bbftx. I've learned a lot and I've hugely benefited from the sharing of everyone's experience. Thank you!
While all of my research (both here and in other forums) and experimentation is fresh on my mind, I decided to capture it in a letter to David Robinson at Positive Feedback in hopes he might find something of interest or value that he could apply and perhaps publish as a letter from a reader. David elected to publish it as a guest essay. I trust you will find that I've given appropriate credits to this thread and everyone who is contributing.
Rushton Paul: My DIY Approach to the Ultrasonic Cleaning of LPs - Positive Feedback
Writing this up also helped me clarify in my own mind this regimen and what's really making a difference. The essay summarizes what I am currently doing in my cleaning process. It is giving me the best sonic results I have been able to achieve in over 40 years of cleaning records.
Thanks, Rrushton. I think you have misread what I posted though. I would fill the tank with 75 millimetres of cleaning solution, which I figure to be 13 Litres. (5% of that 13 Litres could be Isopropyl and I use a few drops of surfacant too).
You are right!
I misunderstood your figures. Sounds like you're on a good track. The isopropyl will act as a surfactant. Still suggest you add a detergent (also a surfactant) such as Tergitol or Triton. Recommend you avoid Photo-Flo.Some of the heavier transducers come with a bolt which is welded to the stainless steel tank.
The transducer is then screwed on with a high-temperature, high-shear strength epoxy, such as Hysol mentioned above, ScotchWeld DP420, or another brand epoxy of the same characteristics.
-louis
Excellent piece Rushton!
Before working out where to buy this cleaning stuff in Europe, I have a few detailed questions.
- How do you measure the temperature in the US cleaner? I read somewhere (?) the temp is different in the unit, so hard to get one temperature. Like you, i am convinced cleaning with warm water is better, but be carefull with too hot as vinyl gets warped... (I might have been a bit extreme here
)- How long do you vacuum? Some says static appears if you do this too long. What is your opinion? I prefer actually some other vacuumsolution, because the vilts on my Okki Nokki are stupid expensive.
- What does your rinse proces look like? Do you use a brush to spread the water on the vinyl? (I prefer no to touch the viny, and spin the 3 lp's (with sonic spin kit) through a bucket of distilled water.
- Do you have a pre-wash proces? (I like to clean my 2nd hand stuff with isoprop and distilled water and a cloth, before doing anything else).
Something to add for those interested. I have tried a mix of L'art du Son and distilled water in the US cleaner. Worked great, but way to expensive. Anyone else tried this?
I am currently working with the cleaning fluid that comes with the Audio Desk system. You can buy small bottles seperate (for about 12 euro) and it is enough for my us cleaner (6liters, 4.7l actually)). Not convinced yet...
Last edited: