All "ribbons" used in PA is either AMT's (like the TPL150) or planar magnetic drivers (like Stage Accompany and Alcons), and there are at least two good reason for that. One is that they cannot the tilted or used horizontally. An other is that they are affected greatly by wind and sound pressure from hard working woofers. I know a Swedish company called LLW (with assistance from Bo Bengtsson) tried to make long true ribbons for PA, but is was a failure because they never considered those limitations.
Been playing with minidsp. i think some of the tube magic might be lost instead of just using protection caps and careful volume. Seems like the 50cm ribbon is good down to 1000hz and ok to 500hz. but 3500hz seem better.
I strongly believe that the Neo10 is one of the best mids out there if you keep it btw 300-3kHz. If you can't or don't want a full scale line array in your room that the RD-75 requires, get some Neo10 and enjoy. DO NOT solder to them. Use crimp terminals on the end of the hook-up wire please.
Greg
No front plate is best for good polar pattern, but a big baffle is better for on-axis FR. You can't have both at the same time in the dipole world....
The TPL150 is way too big anyway for proper dipole polar pattern, that is why I ditched it for a much smaller Mundorf AMT2340.
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Neo10 and Neo8-S version are most similar. Both are using the latest corrugated edge on the diaphragm which allows lower freq response. I would not use either up to 5KHz personally. More like 3.5KHz max. I'm using the 8-S in a nearfield studio monitor right now and it's really excellent run from 500-3.5KHz.
Greg
I wish the TPL-150 were even bigger. If I stand 1.5m away in front of them, I can raise and lower my head almost a meter and still hear a full tone. If they were smaller in height, like the Mundorf, that would probably be more like half a meter, that I could raise and lower my head.
I see why you went line array.
No need to stretch your head up from the sofa to hear anything.
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I would like to try the neo10 or the neo8s to have a more convenient substitute for the gigantic JA6881A Goto horn between 500-2Khz. RD75 may sound wonderful but are even more inconvenient with the 700 Euro shipping from the states, and also the 2m in height with the appropriate 2m in height midbass and subwoofer array that comes after. Yet, I doubt I should replace the horn in hopes of achieving anything better. Only if I want to switch to a more relaxed listening experience, like what happened when I replaced the 1" compression driver to a TPL-150. But compression drivers to a terrible job above 4000Hz anyway.
I will try the large baffle then. I will be using a waveguide/horn so I can just make it slightly larger.
I will try the large baffle then. I will be using a waveguide/horn so I can just make it slightly larger.
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Can you describe what you don't like about them? Did you get to hear the Neo10 and Neo8S in a XO between 500-3.5kHz?
I wish the TPL-150 were even bigger. If I stand 1.5m away in front of them, I can raise and lower my head almost a meter and still hear a full tone. If they were smaller in height, like the Mundorf, that would probably be more like half a meter, that I could raise and lower my head.
I see why you went line array.
You're missing an important point - the smaller the driver is, the better dispersion you will get, both horizontally an vertically. So it would actually be the opposite of what you are describing.
I thought for some reason, that that only applied to true ribbons, and not AMT's because of the direction the folds in the AMT membrane. I made a bad guess.
Then what is the point in making the TPL-150 larger? 15cm nedodymium magnets must be custom made and are quite expensive.
And what is the point with tall true ribbons, and medium tall AMTs, if smaller drivers will have a wider dispersion?
I think I have heard the Mundorf already, watching Avatar on Blueray. It sounded sweet and smooth and very natural, much like the TPL-150, but slightly different. Like the TPL-150, it was not as detailed in the top end, as a true ribbon. IF I am talking about the same driver. It was the Steinway Lyngdorf Model C speaker with separate subwoofer: http://www.steinwaylyngdorf.com/products/s-series-speakers
In the horn world, the sound is more "dynamic", whatever that means, with a longer horn than with a horn with a slower opening. Like the longest commercial Goto horn that has a rather narrow dispersion. Faster opening horns, like Klipsch and JBL have a wider dispersion but loses some focus and energy in the sound, but are more relaxed to listen to. They are also easier to integrate with the dipsersion pattern of midbass/bass cone speakers.
I wonder if a smaller ribbon or AMT loses this kind of focused energy, the same as a faster opening horn, since the dispersion is wider and the energy is dispersed wider? Maybe the TPL-150 is more dynamic than the Mundorf becuase of this? When I think about it, the Mundorf did sound sound a little weaker than the TPL-150. Maybe more forgiving, like the compression drivers coupled to a faster opening horn.
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The main points of making bigger drivers is to get higher power handling and efficiency... fairly important factors in PA systems!
I agree that narrow and controlled dispersion is better than wide dispersion, and that is some of the point with dipoles - controlled dispersion can be achieved over a very wide frequency range. This is not possible with any other type of speaker.
I agree that narrow and controlled dispersion is better than wide dispersion, and that is some of the point with dipoles - controlled dispersion can be achieved over a very wide frequency range. This is not possible with any other type of speaker.
Fundamentally they lack the warmth and fullness of a paper driver in the vocals, and when crossed over too high they can be quite harsh on the ears. Depends on the style of sound you like, I can't knock them for overall sound quality as the do a fantastic job of sound reproduction, but for me they are like sitting on a cold metal chair when I want to wiggle into a big leather chair. Not wrong just different to what I like. I can understand the appeal of them, their just not to my liking.
Keep them under 3~3.5k like Greg said and you will get best out of them, after that it starts to get a tiny metallic sound to them.
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It seems probable that the Neo's are cold/have less "dynamics" (I really have to stop using that word). The TPL-150 is almost too cold, yet somehow retains a little warmth that I am used to with the 1" compression driver, that they replaced.
Most midrange cone drivers were far to dull and boring for my taste. I prefer compression drivers for midrange duty, but not in all music genres. One must play gentle music to them, or just jazz. Horns work with horn instruments, go figure.
I do have a Saba green cone speaker that I have not tried yet. It has somewhat of a cult status so hopefully it will sound great. http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/greencones.htm
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Are you using the JA6681 in a GOTO horn? Try the Yamaha driver in a LeCleach flare. They are incredibly soft with a wide gentle sound which is very relaxed.
Understand how you could think that about many paper cones, the SS illuminators I am using in an active setup don't have that typical doey paper cone sound, they are very sharp but still exhibit a warmth about them.
if you do go with the Neo 8 or 10 don't pair them with the Neo 3 that is how I first heard them they sound woeful, the Neo 3 were replaced by the AMT which made a much better pairing but still fall well short of my RAAL 140D
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