These things appeal to those who must have the best, regardless of cost. They are all about fashion and very little about sound. If you find you are that type of person, they may be worth it to you.
My thoughts on caps:
Bad electrolytics are bad , good ones are decent, but will change over time. Mylars are quite good, and from a cost/benefit on crossover circuits you are not getting much for your money when you get better than Mylar. Polypropylene are better than Mylar, but not 2-10 times as good as the price would lead you to believe. Above polypropylene there exist the level of "flooby dust" capacitors you are asking about. If someone spends much more for their crossover than for the drivers, they aren't putting their money in the place that will get them the best sound.
My thoughts on caps:
Bad electrolytics are bad , good ones are decent, but will change over time. Mylars are quite good, and from a cost/benefit on crossover circuits you are not getting much for your money when you get better than Mylar. Polypropylene are better than Mylar, but not 2-10 times as good as the price would lead you to believe. Above polypropylene there exist the level of "flooby dust" capacitors you are asking about. If someone spends much more for their crossover than for the drivers, they aren't putting their money in the place that will get them the best sound.
I'm awaiting the arrival of the AudioCap Theta Film and Kimber Kap capacitors I just ordered over the weekend for the Lyra 3-way I'm building ( using Dayton drivers ). I think both of those brands of caps use a generic form of "Flooby dust", being only about half the price of the Mundorfs. Still, the crossover components total more than the drivers. But I've heard so many reviewers praise the more expensive caps over the $2 a piece brands. And many people say that the crossover is the heart and soul of a good system--- even the most expensive drivers are nothing without a quality crossover.
Hmmmmmmm, hope I'm not wasting my money on bogus Flooby. Only time will tell.
Hmmmmmmm, hope I'm not wasting my money on bogus Flooby. Only time will tell.
Hi Ron!
"These things appeal to those who must have the best, regardless of cost. They are all about fashion and very little about sound."
Or maybe the other way around... it´s ALL about the sound no matter the cost.
Caps are not just the material, it´s how they are wind and made. Given enough resolving capacity of the set up there are audible differences between decent PP caps.
Though I´m surprised I jumped into yet another discussion about this silly topic.
It´s not the first thing to worry about though for 90% of hifi buffs.
/Peter
"These things appeal to those who must have the best, regardless of cost. They are all about fashion and very little about sound."
Or maybe the other way around... it´s ALL about the sound no matter the cost.
Caps are not just the material, it´s how they are wind and made. Given enough resolving capacity of the set up there are audible differences between decent PP caps.
Though I´m surprised I jumped into yet another discussion about this silly topic.
It´s not the first thing to worry about though for 90% of hifi buffs.
/Peter
Thanks for your reply, more reply have welcome.
I know that Audio Note UK say "the crossover component is the heart".
I ask Mr. Raimund Mundorf about the cap's and he reply to me:
"The Supreme is much more rich on details and informations then a mcap or a Solen our MusiCap.....
This is caused by the speciall non-inductive winding.
The silver in the silver/oil causes more different "colours". The typical character of instruments are more individuell and the oil makes the sound more smooth and "nice".
The silver/gold is the most honest cap. This cap provides all details and colours, but if you use a tweeter which is a little harsh or the signal source is not perfect...you will hear it!"
I believe to Mr. Raimund Mundorf but Anybody try it?
N.B, I use with the best woofers and tweeters that I can buy and find in speakers of above 12000$.
I know that Audio Note UK say "the crossover component is the heart".
I ask Mr. Raimund Mundorf about the cap's and he reply to me:
"The Supreme is much more rich on details and informations then a mcap or a Solen our MusiCap.....
This is caused by the speciall non-inductive winding.
The silver in the silver/oil causes more different "colours". The typical character of instruments are more individuell and the oil makes the sound more smooth and "nice".
The silver/gold is the most honest cap. This cap provides all details and colours, but if you use a tweeter which is a little harsh or the signal source is not perfect...you will hear it!"
I believe to Mr. Raimund Mundorf but Anybody try it?
N.B, I use with the best woofers and tweeters that I can buy and find in speakers of above 12000$.
Re: I found this link
At the moment I am testing some Mundorf Silver/Gold cap's and the results so far are very pleasing.
Buying the most expensive components won't guarantee the best loudspeaker, its the way everything matches together - to get the balance that pleases you most, flavour your recipe accordingly. The crossover is the heart of evey speaker but as with most things in life the quality gain has a linear scale, the corresponding price scale is exponential.
What gives more pleasure: a pair of nice cap's of 10 new cd's?
At the moment I am testing some Mundorf Silver/Gold cap's and the results so far are very pleasing.
Buying the most expensive components won't guarantee the best loudspeaker, its the way everything matches together - to get the balance that pleases you most, flavour your recipe accordingly. The crossover is the heart of evey speaker but as with most things in life the quality gain has a linear scale, the corresponding price scale is exponential.
What gives more pleasure: a pair of nice cap's of 10 new cd's?
Disabled Account
Joined 2003
What if those nice caps makes my existing 100 CDs sound better?
Joking aside, there are pictures floating about on the web of crossovers from megabuck speakers like Dynaudio's Evidence containing Solen and B&W's new 800D series containing Mundorf MCap Supreme capacitors.
I've always wanted to upgrade my crossover out of curiosiy, but there are a dozen other upgrades to do before that.
Oh, and meanwhile, some people in the world are starving, so I think I can hold off for awhile longer.
Joking aside, there are pictures floating about on the web of crossovers from megabuck speakers like Dynaudio's Evidence containing Solen and B&W's new 800D series containing Mundorf MCap Supreme capacitors.
I've always wanted to upgrade my crossover out of curiosiy, but there are a dozen other upgrades to do before that.
Oh, and meanwhile, some people in the world are starving, so I think I can hold off for awhile longer.
Hi
I have tried nearly all makes of capacitors - some imported at great cost for experimental work and have come to the following conclusions- I call them the "Jozua Cap Rules"
1. Do not skimp on shunt capacitors-use the best you can get. Shunt can make a BIG difference.
2. Certain speaker drivers seem to sound better with certain brands of capacitors. Buying expensive caps at random and thinking it will always sound better in your setup is a big mistake.
3. Certain caps cause phase shifts - it might sound better at first glance but the image might or depth might suffer after the "upgrade". So listen carefully.
4. Do not trust what you read in the press about certain high end caps- many are grossly over-rated. Most middle of the road caps are fine for conventional hi-fi use as most of them tend to sound better in time.
5. Avoid cheap caps at all cost but do not spend too much if your setup does not have the resolution to justify the expense.
6. Some caps (especially the metal based) are more efficient than others and will make the driver play louder than before which is easily mistaken as a improvement.
7. The higher the voltage of the cap the greater the potential of the cap improving in time.
Jozua
www.ribbonspeakers.com
I have tried nearly all makes of capacitors - some imported at great cost for experimental work and have come to the following conclusions- I call them the "Jozua Cap Rules"
1. Do not skimp on shunt capacitors-use the best you can get. Shunt can make a BIG difference.
2. Certain speaker drivers seem to sound better with certain brands of capacitors. Buying expensive caps at random and thinking it will always sound better in your setup is a big mistake.
3. Certain caps cause phase shifts - it might sound better at first glance but the image might or depth might suffer after the "upgrade". So listen carefully.
4. Do not trust what you read in the press about certain high end caps- many are grossly over-rated. Most middle of the road caps are fine for conventional hi-fi use as most of them tend to sound better in time.
5. Avoid cheap caps at all cost but do not spend too much if your setup does not have the resolution to justify the expense.
6. Some caps (especially the metal based) are more efficient than others and will make the driver play louder than before which is easily mistaken as a improvement.
7. The higher the voltage of the cap the greater the potential of the cap improving in time.
Jozua
www.ribbonspeakers.com
Hmm, as coupling caps in one of my tube amps, Jensen copper PIO caps were smoked by $.75 sprague orange drops.
This isn't to say that better caps aren't audibly better, they often are. It's just that price isn't necessarily an indicator.
WRT crossovers, it's important to optimize everything else first.
GB
I have tried as well all kind of caps. Until today, the Mundorf supremes are the best for me (as well better than the double costing silver(oils). Have not tried yet the silver /gold.
The tin versions are not as detail as the supreme, but more forgiving. The silver/oil are somewhere between the tin and the supremes. I have a bit the feeling that the silver in oil have been a nice marketing move of Mr. Mundorf as they are clearly better than any Jensens and if you want oil, you can get it...
Would be great to hear a bit more about the difference between the supreme and the silver/gold version.
Best Regards
The tin versions are not as detail as the supreme, but more forgiving. The silver/oil are somewhere between the tin and the supremes. I have a bit the feeling that the silver in oil have been a nice marketing move of Mr. Mundorf as they are clearly better than any Jensens and if you want oil, you can get it...
Would be great to hear a bit more about the difference between the supreme and the silver/gold version.
Best Regards
Input Capacitor /Mundorf Silver-in-Oil & Silver-in-Gold and Jensen Cap
Hi diyer, Blitz & Jozua
Is there anyone using Mundorf Silver-in-Oil and Mundorf Silver-in-Gold and Jensen Copper-in-Oil for the input capacitor? Or other bands.
Is Mundorf the best?
What is the quality sound of High End, Mid-Range & Bass?
Which one is better?
Best regards
Dominic Ko
Hi diyer, Blitz & Jozua
Is there anyone using Mundorf Silver-in-Oil and Mundorf Silver-in-Gold and Jensen Copper-in-Oil for the input capacitor? Or other bands.
Is Mundorf the best?
What is the quality sound of High End, Mid-Range & Bass?
Which one is better?
Best regards
Dominic Ko
I have tried the Mundorf Silver/Oil and Silver/Gold caps after reading Tony's reviews. The conclusions are similar. I have not tried the Duelund caps because they are really large, but would expect them to be good.
One thing of caution. Improving one part will reveal flaws in other parts of the system. It's best to be sure that the basic circuit design is very good, only this way when you make improvments in components, you won't go around in circles trying to match components, but rather use the most techically correct component to reveal what should be heard in the first place.
Based on this insight, when I am working on speakers, I try to get good drivers first, work one the circuit with common components till the system sounds the way I think it should such that I only expect improvements such that Tony's site explains, then stick in better components just for that much more improvement.
One thing of caution. Improving one part will reveal flaws in other parts of the system. It's best to be sure that the basic circuit design is very good, only this way when you make improvments in components, you won't go around in circles trying to match components, but rather use the most techically correct component to reveal what should be heard in the first place.
Based on this insight, when I am working on speakers, I try to get good drivers first, work one the circuit with common components till the system sounds the way I think it should such that I only expect improvements such that Tony's site explains, then stick in better components just for that much more improvement.
