Strip the ducting of all the junk by its own acoustical paths and shapes from the start. You can narrow this down to see it and work with it I believe and starting at the very beginning w that in the appetizer menu not the desert cart …. Jeez.
The whole ‘ bandpass idea ‘ has been abandoned? Why? Why when it’s not science? Or it’s convenient because a wife’s shoe closet is too? Figure all that out elsewhere and then look at solutions . This reality not messy guesses with I real restrictions. Find real and then work backward to reasonable (wifey/shoe closet) . Your guessing at infinity when that doesn’t have to be … rectangle as 2:1 in everything sphere is 0.5236:1 the volume of a sphere and phase math follows the same 4/3(pi) r^3 math as rocket science does with gravity(velocity/escape/fall) or stay in orbit . So if Earl Geddes has it near perfect abd down pretty darn tight. Then he’s damn near at the equator with T minus 11,9,7,5,3,….1/4…. Boom �� max spinning on the bigger surface to center ratio on earth gets you outta here easier … It’s not changing much not now at least. it’s a little different at 45 latitude or the poles but that’ll change too (not in 72 - 73.5 years as one degreee but in 25920(+5.236/360 Ratio) spins on spins or 6480 parts if it as in qw… same number again . .5236. Higher order modes to perfect
The whole ‘ bandpass idea ‘ has been abandoned? Why? Why when it’s not science? Or it’s convenient because a wife’s shoe closet is too? Figure all that out elsewhere and then look at solutions . This reality not messy guesses with I real restrictions. Find real and then work backward to reasonable (wifey/shoe closet) . Your guessing at infinity when that doesn’t have to be … rectangle as 2:1 in everything sphere is 0.5236:1 the volume of a sphere and phase math follows the same 4/3(pi) r^3 math as rocket science does with gravity(velocity/escape/fall) or stay in orbit . So if Earl Geddes has it near perfect abd down pretty darn tight. Then he’s damn near at the equator with T minus 11,9,7,5,3,….1/4…. Boom �� max spinning on the bigger surface to center ratio on earth gets you outta here easier … It’s not changing much not now at least. it’s a little different at 45 latitude or the poles but that’ll change too (not in 72 - 73.5 years as one degreee but in 25920(+5.236/360 Ratio) spins on spins or 6480 parts if it as in qw… same number again . .5236. Higher order modes to perfect
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Btw thought experiments are perfectly doable.
Just do everything first in one direction only.
In 3 directions the same rules of physics apply, just getting (very!) complicated because of interference in multiple directions.
But the rules how things interact with one another stays exactly the same.
Just do everything first in one direction only.
In 3 directions the same rules of physics apply, just getting (very!) complicated because of interference in multiple directions.
But the rules how things interact with one another stays exactly the same.
A fish (shape) is 3/4 harmonic . A hypotenuse is the 1/4. And so on. That’s pressure phase for the 2:1, but it’s broken into 0.75,1.5,225,300. Just like the speed of light on its hypothetical way to and return from zero. Which is not the 1/4 fundamental. That’s at only 75.. or 150(earth) 225 of 300 in 360degrees ? . We are 150(earth). Put your subs at merc, Venus , mars , Jupiter and Saturn and see what happens . 0.38, 0.72 
1 1.52, 5.22, and 9.54. (Precisely at a ratio of 0.5236:1 still as that’s the parallex angle in a perfect rectangle but also in the gigantic space of ‘space’ ) weird? But Now sit in the meteor belt and find something bizarre? That’s radioactive active isotopes ending at 2.35-2.4 Nodes ? How about the 92 of 235 uranium? Where’s that ? Earth. I dunno but anti nodes might be a better word? 1496000 million kms Is 149 mm or cm or meters. All are 1.0 AU or AMU and the ‘room’ is ? What freq? Or it’s harmonics ? It might surprise us alll if it’s the same . Especially if the subwoofer design is to ?
Might be time to look at the PH1 section of horn response. It’s a new day. And it’s not just a neutron or two as h2 or 4 as helium? . It’s the whole sun or the Saturn orbit. ? I dunno but this works it really does. It might work in ‘the room’ too? My room is unique . It’s a bad example of ‘perfect’ , not a legitamite place of reference. otherwise it would be hard wood oak floors and lots of glass. At many angles or drop down /hallways from … a mess . I dont even try in there. It impossible??
1 1.52, 5.22, and 9.54. (Precisely at a ratio of 0.5236:1 still as that’s the parallex angle in a perfect rectangle but also in the gigantic space of ‘space’ ) weird? But Now sit in the meteor belt and find something bizarre? That’s radioactive active isotopes ending at 2.35-2.4 Nodes ? How about the 92 of 235 uranium? Where’s that ? Earth. I dunno but anti nodes might be a better word? 1496000 million kms Is 149 mm or cm or meters. All are 1.0 AU or AMU and the ‘room’ is ? What freq? Or it’s harmonics ? It might surprise us alll if it’s the same . Especially if the subwoofer design is to ?Might be time to look at the PH1 section of horn response. It’s a new day. And it’s not just a neutron or two as h2 or 4 as helium? . It’s the whole sun or the Saturn orbit. ? I dunno but this works it really does. It might work in ‘the room’ too? My room is unique . It’s a bad example of ‘perfect’ , not a legitamite place of reference. otherwise it would be hard wood oak floors and lots of glass. At many angles or drop down /hallways from … a mess . I dont even try in there. It impossible??
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Sorry... but are your writings like an open brainstorm - or am I simply too thick to grasp the point you're trying to make?A fish (shape) is 3/4 harmonic . A hypotenuse is the 1/4. And so on. That’s pressure phase for the 2:1, but it’s broken into 0.75,1.5,225,300. Just like the speed of light on its hypothetical way to and return from zero. Which is not the 1/4 fundamental. That’s at only 75.. or 150(earth) 225 of 300 in 360degrees ? . We are 150(earth). Put your subs at merc, Venus , mars , Jupiter and Saturn and see what happens . 0.38, 0.72
Might be time to look at the PH1 section of horn response. It’s a new day. And it’s not just a neutron or two as h2 or 4 as helium? . It’s the whole sun or the Saturn orbit. ? I dunno but this works it really does. It might work in ‘the room’ too? My room is unique . It’s a bad example of ‘perfect’ , not a legitamite place of reference. otherwise it would be hard wood oak floors and lots of glass. At many angles or drop down /hallways from … a mess . I dont even try in there. It impossible??
No idea, but it’s not your fault, digital Thor, that’s for sure. No worries.
Typing explanations of things isn’t easy.. I’m
not taking out my ***, but it does sound strange I’m sorry, it’s because I have no formal education in acoustics . I’m jumping the fence from other areas where I found the same numbers and oddly the same functions at the higher levels give the same numbers? Over and over and the farther you dive into the rabbit hole the more it converges? It’s really odd. So odd is how it shoulda no doubt. It’s really amazing though. I can’t seem to find the ‘end’ . 8 th order or ? It’s still just narrowing down the maths tighter to an accurate portrait of bigger things: the dimensions of the sun, the first 4 or all8 planets., Ver badim. It’s all there to see.(hear??) one or 1440 billion . Kms or astronomical units or atomic mass Units. They’re freqs and they’re represented as all of those it seems.
Typing explanations of things isn’t easy.. I’m
not taking out my ***, but it does sound strange
I’m sorry, it’s because I have no formal education in acoustics . I’m jumping the fence from other areas where I found the same numbers and oddly the same functions at the higher levels give the same numbers? Over and over and the farther you dive into the rabbit hole the more it converges? It’s really odd. So odd is how it shoulda no doubt. It’s really amazing though. I can’t seem to find the ‘end’ . 8 th order or ? It’s still just narrowing down the maths tighter to an accurate portrait of bigger things: the dimensions of the sun, the first 4 or all8 planets., Ver badim. It’s all there to see.(hear??) one or 1440 billion . Kms or astronomical units or atomic mass Units. They’re freqs and they’re represented as all of those it seems.
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No idea, but it’s not your fault, digital Thor, that’s for sure. No worries.
Typing explanations of things isn’t easy.. I’m
not taking out my ***, but it does sound strange
Actually I kinda get you, because I remember when I started to slow down my writing and only let my brain run free
I'm not mocking you... it's wonderful to have lots of different people in this world - as long as we can communicate as freely, respectful and peacefully as we do right now 
There might be lots of patterns in this world, who has very deep relations - and some might just look that way. But my philosophy with sound, is to find that balance where the practical and theoretical can meet - and then give it a little dash of fun, to give a grin on the face when I turn on the music
And how do I find that balance.... well this might be a bit of an endless chase.... a hobby I guess What are we really chasing here? Perfection? Cause that can very easily become crazy expensive and really not satisfy us more... but just make it complicated, which turns it less fun, which again kinda ruins the whole point of doing it in the first place
But It’s not endless, really, this is trueoy amazing �������� . Perfect is just phase that’s all available to see in free soft ware. It Doesn t cost a penny to find this. Apparently few use it or loook? I’m not sure . But regardless the 0.5236 is 30 degrees in 360. It’s many things once it’s qw lengths and it’s much more than that in 3d ,4d and beyond as a number . It’s amazing what it does in just a soeaker duct
Tom Danley visited the pyramid of geeza. It’s not a bad idea . Seems there’s a lot to use I thee abd it has definitely not gained to show me sim me amazing things
Tom Danley visited the pyramid of geeza. It’s not a bad idea . Seems there’s a lot to use I thee abd it has definitely not gained to show me sim me amazing things
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It’s hard for people who sim and then build to describe that. And if not sinking and creating things in higher orders then there’s nothing to convey that would be understood. This is far beyond ‘bose wave cannons or tapped pipes or ??? Those are very messy! But I dunno I don’t bother with thise or even TL as a straight pipe anymore . It’s 270cm on 90 n parallel and with a driver entry at 30 in each of these which combine to exit another 30. That’s given a specific CSa asignmentvas pipe segments and you find something special .
One has to first define "perfection".
Which in most cases is just an extremely vague thing when it comes done to music reproduction.
For many years, my approach has been; being less bad.
To give just one example of this, EQ'ing a standing wave is maybe not ideal (read: "perfect".
But it is a lot better than a non-EQ'ed standing wave.
Going on a little philosophical side note here on perfection,
But most with most recordings of music, there is a weird amount of detail anyway.
In reality one would never be able to hear such detail from a live playing band, group of musician. There are only a few exception out there.
So it is kind of artificial to begin with.
Sorry to quote something from 8 years ago. What is your take on dipoles and cardoids (I realize it gets blurry between cardoid and closed box with a controlled leak)?
About copper heating, that can be taken care of by using a current amplifier. If Qms is high, something else needs to be done about that, though.
Considering only the modal region for now, these kinds of systems don't have any advantage as far as room interaction - all sources types excite the modes, just in different ways. The lack of LF output for them is a real problem however.
Above the modal region I am not sure that they have much advantage, but they might. Controlling the directivity in the low mids does not seem to me to be all that critical. If they were easy and effective to make I would do that, but when I played around with them they were complex and more expensive requiring an additional driver, etc. I'm not convinced that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Time will tell.
Above the modal region I am not sure that they have much advantage, but they might. Controlling the directivity in the low mids does not seem to me to be all that critical. If they were easy and effective to make I would do that, but when I played around with them they were complex and more expensive requiring an additional driver, etc. I'm not convinced that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Time will tell.
Thanks. True, LF output is a challenge, but if anything, they will excite modes differently compared to an omni source.
I discovered this thread just this week and read the interview. I had the previlege to study physics when still had an acoustics program. M.R. Schröder (yes, the Schröder frequency is named after him) was still dean at the time, and he would have loved your ideas about modal statistics.
I am going to try dipole subs shortly after having lived with multi subs (though not quite according to your recipe) for years. The thing that bothers me about multi-subs (and DBAs) is that the time alignment between the mains and the subs will depend on the listening position. Of course, multi-subs haven an edge over DBAs in that they require fewer drivers and work better in rooms that are not perfectly cuboid.
I discovered this thread just this week and read the interview. I had the previlege to study physics when still had an acoustics program. M.R. Schröder (yes, the Schröder frequency is named after him) was still dean at the time, and he would have loved your ideas about modal statistics.
I am going to try dipole subs shortly after having lived with multi subs (though not quite according to your recipe) for years. The thing that bothers me about multi-subs (and DBAs) is that the time alignment between the mains and the subs will depend on the listening position. Of course, multi-subs haven an edge over DBAs in that they require fewer drivers and work better in rooms that are not perfectly cuboid.
Manfred R. Schroeder
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Manfred Robert Schroeder (12 July 1926 – 28 December 2009) born in Ahlen, he studied at the University of Göttingen (1947–52), earning a vordiplom in mathematics (1951) and Dr. rer. nat. (1954) in physics. His thesis showed how small regular cavities in concert halls cause unfortunate resonances.
He joined the technical staff at Bell Labs in New Jersey (1954–) researching speech and graphics, securing forty-five patents. Still affiliated with Bell, he rejoined University of Göttingen as Universitätsprofessor Physik (1969) becoming professor emeritus (1991). He was a visiting professor at University of Tokyo (1979).
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Manfred Robert Schroeder (12 July 1926 – 28 December 2009) born in Ahlen, he studied at the University of Göttingen (1947–52), earning a vordiplom in mathematics (1951) and Dr. rer. nat. (1954) in physics. His thesis showed how small regular cavities in concert halls cause unfortunate resonances.
He joined the technical staff at Bell Labs in New Jersey (1954–) researching speech and graphics, securing forty-five patents. Still affiliated with Bell, he rejoined University of Göttingen as Universitätsprofessor Physik (1969) becoming professor emeritus (1991). He was a visiting professor at University of Tokyo (1979).
University of Göttingen. He went back to the III. Physikalisches Institut in 1969 as a tenured professor first, later becoming the dean (Direktor) when Prof. Meyer retired.
Manfred R. Schroeder - Wikipedia
This is also quite good reading:
Oral-History:Manfred Schroeder - Engineering and Technology History Wiki
Just like I remember him from lectures, he talks a lot about his achievements.
Manfred R. Schroeder - Wikipedia
This is also quite good reading:
Oral-History:Manfred Schroeder - Engineering and Technology History Wiki
Just like I remember him from lectures, he talks a lot about his achievements.
Here’s the idea of ‘perfect’, to be fair I hope that It doesn’t Falsely represent anything as it’s not ‘perfect ‘ it’s phase aligned perfect’ and even more technically but that’s inconsequential in reality.. and this list I made fro the sim as freqs that are pressure voids/Antinodes of odd numbered multiples and doubles and the pink are every 6th which is -990dB amongst the 96 and 192 hz spacing that form as a secondary and tertiary set ? Ie: it’s the pipes and parts of it acoustically relevant..
Currectly my brothers family and preciously mine, Used the sealed approach with multiple dayton audio drivers in the rom and hidden traps in cabinets and overheads that open and are exposed when in use and it’s obvious that’s the way to go to just get it done and done well. It’s Nice.
The ONLY argument I have isn’t an argument , it an excuse to use qw vented enclosures purely because it’s a DIY thing and time down and comfy woodworking and in the shop with ‘slightly more complex vented design is a therapeutic hobby thing and even a father son/son thing that is extended by choosing not to use the ‘sealed’? Otherwise its merely that extra ‘personal part’ that most people can agree is legit and probably the only thing that might merit the compromise or assumption it’s not gonna pan out as well as of what the sealed likely will no matter what.?
Currectly my brothers family and preciously mine, Used the sealed approach with multiple dayton audio drivers in the rom and hidden traps in cabinets and overheads that open and are exposed when in use and it’s obvious that’s the way to go to just get it done and done well. It’s Nice.
The ONLY argument I have isn’t an argument , it an excuse to use qw vented enclosures purely because it’s a DIY thing and time down and comfy woodworking and in the shop with ‘slightly more complex vented design is a therapeutic hobby thing and even a father son/son thing that is extended by choosing not to use the ‘sealed’? Otherwise its merely that extra ‘personal part’ that most people can agree is legit and probably the only thing that might merit the compromise or assumption it’s not gonna pan out as well as of what the sealed likely will no matter what.?
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Sims out sims great numbers that represent things . Should be familierr but aren’t, we don’t get taught this in school as children but it might have been fun and made Math more interesting for lots of kids who were daydreaming of subwoofers instead ����
I dont know if this helps or not but it’s all 30 (x12)cm parts in a compound pipe at 270-90 and it likes a 30cm driver entry at both ends and a 30cm overall combined *after the parallel pipes* , exit length. If you built mtm or midbasss qw’ tops at a 10 cm interval to this 30cm it Kinda shares the same harmonics .? All nickel and dime ideas along with dual opposed drivers to chip away at all potential problems in many areas
I dont know if this helps or not but it’s all 30 (x12)cm parts in a compound pipe at 270-90 and it likes a 30cm driver entry at both ends and a 30cm overall combined *after the parallel pipes* , exit length. If you built mtm or midbasss qw’ tops at a 10 cm interval to this 30cm it Kinda shares the same harmonics .? All nickel and dime ideas along with dual opposed drivers to chip away at all potential problems in many areas
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Thanks for that.
Gary Elko, a colleague of mine from Penn Sate, worked with him at Bell Labs, and that had to be after 1982. Did he have a dual appointment? I guess I could read the bio, I'm just lazy.