Satisfaction
Greg,
You stated that the Mikasa is one of your favorites on one of the Chang threads recently. I was just wondering, now that you've had some time to live with them, what your opinion is Re: the sound quality with different types of music, and what your current state of "Tweak" is on these boxes ( Eg. I know you reduced the stuffing, and were going to add the triangular deflector, where did you end up?).
Your inspiring builds have been fun to lurk along with. Are you now satisfied with your speaker inventory?, or do you have new iterations of "Chang" in the works?
John
Greg,
You stated that the Mikasa is one of your favorites on one of the Chang threads recently. I was just wondering, now that you've had some time to live with them, what your opinion is Re: the sound quality with different types of music, and what your current state of "Tweak" is on these boxes ( Eg. I know you reduced the stuffing, and were going to add the triangular deflector, where did you end up?).
Your inspiring builds have been fun to lurk along with. Are you now satisfied with your speaker inventory?, or do you have new iterations of "Chang" in the works?
John
Re: Satisfaction
Sorry, I haven't browsed fullrange forum recently... but now the weather is warming up for the ideal speaker building...
My favorite remains Mikasa, for auditory qualities for minimal $$. I listen to jazz/popular at least weekly basis. It has tremendous visual appeal as you can see here on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crbljRFoO5w
I have the same set of speakers in BIB detailed here (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=134923) but for me Mikasa is better. Neither (BIB or Mikasa) is designed for these speakers, but I can assure u these cheap speakers in Mikasa sings with surprising bass extension (I don't use or miss subwoofer in either cabinets). I have been lazy and have not done any more mods, they sound great to me as they are.
Now my future project remains 2 more sets of Mikasa with same speakers setup. I will likely use the same stuffing technique but will add the triangle piece near the back of the cabinet. My relatives are begging after listening and seeing my pair, and I have agreed to oversee their build in my garage in few weeks. These young guys can be pushy.
gychang
mightym said:
Sorry, I haven't browsed fullrange forum recently... but now the weather is warming up for the ideal speaker building...
My favorite remains Mikasa, for auditory qualities for minimal $$. I listen to jazz/popular at least weekly basis. It has tremendous visual appeal as you can see here on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crbljRFoO5w
I have the same set of speakers in BIB detailed here (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=134923) but for me Mikasa is better. Neither (BIB or Mikasa) is designed for these speakers, but I can assure u these cheap speakers in Mikasa sings with surprising bass extension (I don't use or miss subwoofer in either cabinets). I have been lazy and have not done any more mods, they sound great to me as they are.
Now my future project remains 2 more sets of Mikasa with same speakers setup. I will likely use the same stuffing technique but will add the triangle piece near the back of the cabinet. My relatives are begging after listening and seeing my pair, and I have agreed to oversee their build in my garage in few weeks. These young guys can be pushy.
gychang
Short answer: they can't / don't. The MA drivers are not suitable nor recommended for Mikasa, which is essentially an obsolescent design (not obsolete as there are probably plenty of the old E range Fostex drive units still out there sitting on shelves). You'll be better off with a dedicated design.
short answer, redux:
Maeshowe was specifically designed for the Mark Audio drivers (CHR & EL70/ Alpair 7), but serendipitously enough works like a charm with FE126E
Here they're shown next to a pair of Saburos, and the tallish gentleman who built the latter. The Maeshowe is 60" tall, and a pair will consume 2 sheets of BB ply (in our case 15mm worked just fine)
The elliptical suprabaffles were built to accommodate quick change demonstration with the above mentioned 4 drivers - which others might work satisfactorily would be anyone's guess.
Woden Design | Maeshowe
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The only request I make: please don't ask 'can I use xyz driver' in Maeshowe. It was designed for the MA CHR70 & not really for driver rolling. Dave & Chris did so purely for testing purposes so we have some additional experience / knowledge as to behaviour under different load conditions. A variation is practical for the FE126En which I'm working on at the moment.
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Ok I won't.
The Mark Audio for me will be (when purchased) in that smallish box that Scott sent
the plan for. Well actually I'm recycling a box from many moons ago which I have yet to measure.
The Mikasa was just an idle question. My preference overall is for the MLTL configuration and my builds have been getting smaller rather than bigger-- sort of inverse to my acquisition of tools.
The Mark Audio for me will be (when purchased) in that smallish box that Scott sent
the plan for. Well actually I'm recycling a box from many moons ago which I have yet to measure.
The Mikasa was just an idle question. My preference overall is for the MLTL configuration and my builds have been getting smaller rather than bigger-- sort of inverse to my acquisition of tools.
Although it's pretty clear from the Woden site that Maeshowe was specifically targeted for the MA drivers, we just couldn't resist trying the FE126E - mea culpa.
But as Scott says - don't ask what specs can help predict which other drivers can be expected to work as well, and don't be surprised when non-specified units don't.
Is there a next?
Okay, I have being reading a lot on these forums, and now it is time to take action! Here's my story:
I sold my first OB speaker system to a local musician in May and have been researching for my next build. The OB was a Tri-amped 3-way with the FF225K at its core. Before that I had the FF225K in a rear horn design run full-range. I liked the unity of the sound from that design and the depthful bass, but could not stand the dryness and small sound stage, which could have been the cheap TV amp I was using, old CD player, lack of Enable, etc. (I was broke and nieve) So that system as a full-ranger never reached its full potential... And quite honestly, I never found what I was looking for in the 3-way OB either. It could play loud, crisp, clear and deep but not lively and big! The peices of the sound stage where there, but not a coherent whole - I am sure due to inferior cross-over design. My musican freinds could not wait for me to perfect that part and bought them from me as is. I am very happy to have it out there serving them, their recordings are so much better! Anyway, I degress (I should not do that on my first post!)
So... here is what I am looking for:
Huge sound stage, dynamics, space... basically a concert in my living room.
I listen to all kinds of music, classical, ambient, new age, trance, rock and roll, precussion, etc. I also especailly enjoy movies.
My room is 10' X 14' with 9' ceilings. I have a 4' X 5' nook in the middle of the right wall and a 5 1/2' wide archway on the left wall. I place my speakers on these side walls slightly into the archway and nook to avoid those early reflections. (It created a great surround effect with the OBs).
I bought a stardard chip-amp kit from Dan which has been waiting patiently for some TLC from me. I am open to mating this with a tube pre-amp if anyone knows of a good kit out there.
Astestically, I want something tall and slender.
I love wooking with wood, and enjoy a challenge.
...I originally wanted to build a floor to ceiling full-range array, the near feild listening expierence sounds like what I am looking for. But there is comb filtering, which may affect that wholeness of a full-range system, and I believe you still need to have good drivers for good results. This is a big $$$$ system with big amps and High End EQ to get done right. Not realistic with my current budget - $400 for drivers
...but when I saw the Mikasa, Harvey and Changs, I thought "frugile-fi's array system" and coherent to boot... So I am sad that Mikasa is being "chopped", as I like the design from an astetic point of veiw more so then the Sachiko version. Is Scott designing something better for the new Fostexs, Fe126En, 167En, etc? Becuase I am considering building the Mikasa with Dave's Enabled Fe126En^2. Now here are my questions:
My listening postion is 8' away from the speakers, will the sound come together at that point? (I know the bigger Changs require 11") If not, will any of the other double mouthed changs designs work. Will the Hiro work at that distance? How about the Harvey?
I really like the steps on the Mikasa, but does that cuase serious defractions?
Will the Mikasa with the Fe126En^2 be loud enough, or would I be better desgning something with a larger driver that will blend at 8', like Fe167 or FE208eZ with tweeter? I seems to me that the smaller drivers have the most lively soundstage.
Will these smaller drivers be able to keep up with the complexity of big orchestra music and blu-ray movies, with the help of the horns and subwoofer? I am thinking the horns will have more headroom then the BVR's
I will more then likely be adding an 18" subwoofer system to take care the the lows. The goal of the main system is to put out a big, open, dynamic, coherent soundstage.
I know this is a lot to ask, I am sure comprimises will be make, but it is time to get started...
I look forward to all of your thoughts
Thank You,
Allen
Okay, I have being reading a lot on these forums, and now it is time to take action! Here's my story:
I sold my first OB speaker system to a local musician in May and have been researching for my next build. The OB was a Tri-amped 3-way with the FF225K at its core. Before that I had the FF225K in a rear horn design run full-range. I liked the unity of the sound from that design and the depthful bass, but could not stand the dryness and small sound stage, which could have been the cheap TV amp I was using, old CD player, lack of Enable, etc. (I was broke and nieve) So that system as a full-ranger never reached its full potential... And quite honestly, I never found what I was looking for in the 3-way OB either. It could play loud, crisp, clear and deep but not lively and big! The peices of the sound stage where there, but not a coherent whole - I am sure due to inferior cross-over design. My musican freinds could not wait for me to perfect that part and bought them from me as is. I am very happy to have it out there serving them, their recordings are so much better! Anyway, I degress (I should not do that on my first post!)
So... here is what I am looking for:
Huge sound stage, dynamics, space... basically a concert in my living room.
I listen to all kinds of music, classical, ambient, new age, trance, rock and roll, precussion, etc. I also especailly enjoy movies.
My room is 10' X 14' with 9' ceilings. I have a 4' X 5' nook in the middle of the right wall and a 5 1/2' wide archway on the left wall. I place my speakers on these side walls slightly into the archway and nook to avoid those early reflections. (It created a great surround effect with the OBs).
I bought a stardard chip-amp kit from Dan which has been waiting patiently for some TLC from me. I am open to mating this with a tube pre-amp if anyone knows of a good kit out there.
Astestically, I want something tall and slender.
I love wooking with wood, and enjoy a challenge.
...I originally wanted to build a floor to ceiling full-range array, the near feild listening expierence sounds like what I am looking for. But there is comb filtering, which may affect that wholeness of a full-range system, and I believe you still need to have good drivers for good results. This is a big $$$$ system with big amps and High End EQ to get done right. Not realistic with my current budget - $400 for drivers
...but when I saw the Mikasa, Harvey and Changs, I thought "frugile-fi's array system" and coherent to boot... So I am sad that Mikasa is being "chopped", as I like the design from an astetic point of veiw more so then the Sachiko version. Is Scott designing something better for the new Fostexs, Fe126En, 167En, etc? Becuase I am considering building the Mikasa with Dave's Enabled Fe126En^2. Now here are my questions:
My listening postion is 8' away from the speakers, will the sound come together at that point? (I know the bigger Changs require 11") If not, will any of the other double mouthed changs designs work. Will the Hiro work at that distance? How about the Harvey?
I really like the steps on the Mikasa, but does that cuase serious defractions?
Will the Mikasa with the Fe126En^2 be loud enough, or would I be better desgning something with a larger driver that will blend at 8', like Fe167 or FE208eZ with tweeter? I seems to me that the smaller drivers have the most lively soundstage.
Will these smaller drivers be able to keep up with the complexity of big orchestra music and blu-ray movies, with the help of the horns and subwoofer? I am thinking the horns will have more headroom then the BVR's
I will more then likely be adding an 18" subwoofer system to take care the the lows. The goal of the main system is to put out a big, open, dynamic, coherent soundstage.
I know this is a lot to ask, I am sure comprimises will be make, but it is time to get started...
I look forward to all of your thoughts
Thank You,
Allen
I already have; they're over on my Woden site, although since there is a nominal charge for plans I won't discuss them here. Of the FH cabinets I did for the 126, Saburo always had the edge over Mikasa. Both sites need some revising; we're hoping to do that as soon as time permits.
Harvey is obsolete and will be culled from the FH site when time permits. Hiro has had a light round of updates along with Saburo and Sachiko for the new En drivers; the updated versions will emerge when we have chance to revise the site. Time is the problem. Hiro would just about functon (ditto its larger & smaller stablemates), although another couple of feet would be preferable.
Depends on your own taste TBH. Assuming they're assisted in the LF, then many people would be perfectly happy with them; if you have more demanding criteria (e.g. ~live orchestral SPLs at the listening position, which equates to 120dB+ dynamic peaks), then no wideband driver based system is ever likely to satisfy.
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