These budget mid dome are not very good in my ears. Dynaudio ones sound clacky to me and Morels MDM55 also have this quality i understand the cross overs are extremly important also but to me there not smooth at all, There was a UK company called Ruark which is still running but is not the same thing now, they used the Dynaudio D52 and customers would say they sounded ruff and brittle over Studio type domes.
The ATC mid domes are very different and have a good linear excursion as they employ spider dampers attached to the former and do not just use the front surround as the only damper as is the case in the cheaper dome mid ranges.
I would rather stick to a cone mid over a cheap dome mid any day.
The ATC mid domes are very different and have a good linear excursion as they employ spider dampers attached to the former and do not just use the front surround as the only damper as is the case in the cheaper dome mid ranges.
I would rather stick to a cone mid over a cheap dome mid any day.
hi
to add to pink mouse - the atc s are also doped at the supensions to smooth out the peaky-ness
and it is more or less an improved design of an urei studio monitor of the late 70 s ( i guess )
yet with a dome i would suggest tri amping as the atc cross-over is a work of art
oh by the way the ruarks used to sound very flat to me even in the early 90 s -
suarnjan
to add to pink mouse - the atc s are also doped at the supensions to smooth out the peaky-ness
and it is more or less an improved design of an urei studio monitor of the late 70 s ( i guess )
yet with a dome i would suggest tri amping as the atc cross-over is a work of art
oh by the way the ruarks used to sound very flat to me even in the early 90 s -
suarnjan
High quality cone mid/woofer is best solution for powerful and smooth midrange. Only problem is to make a proper non reflective enclosure , and I am thinking of short tapered T-line. There is no compression of air behind membrane. Next good type of "enclosure" i open baffle.
If you use a dome midrange you don´t have option for bilding an enclosure becouse almost all dome mids have its own rear damping chamber.
If you use a dome midrange you don´t have option for bilding an enclosure becouse almost all dome mids have its own rear damping chamber.
Although i'm not very familiar with mid dome sound in general, some of their specs may be interresting. The moving mass in a dome mid is lower most of the time than a mid cone. So the ratio mm/bl is often much higher.
So if you want to cross your mid to a "fast" tweeter (like a ribbon), the mid dome may be a good idea.
The morel MDM 55 is interresting and has good reputation.
F
So if you want to cross your mid to a "fast" tweeter (like a ribbon), the mid dome may be a good idea.
The morel MDM 55 is interresting and has good reputation.
F
gary f said:
I agree with the first part but IMHO, there is a huge difference between low cost mid domes like MDM 55 by Morel that dont come close to ATCs level of space and detail, high quality mid domes like ATCs have a much higher linear travel over other domes, i dont have any paper work to agree with me but i believe this to be a major factor.
The vifa mid domes do not represent the best qualities of mid domes, if cost is a factor i would also say a good cone midrange can be excellent.
Allright, the ATC is sure a great dome mid, but at 1000$ a pair, it is insanely expensive. It may worth it, but I won't try it soon anyway.
There is many cone mids that are really interresting AND affordable. A good cone mid is surely more simple (and safe) to implement. But dome mids may have good qualities in certain specific situations.
F
There is many cone mids that are really interresting AND affordable. A good cone mid is surely more simple (and safe) to implement. But dome mids may have good qualities in certain specific situations.
F
On myth I'd like to bust - BL/Mms. It is nothing more than an efficiency rating, and tells you nothing of bandwidth or "risetime". A high BL/Mms rating just tells you the driver is efficient - nothing more (note that efficiency for a given driver is strictly governed by just BL and Mms).gary f said:
In fact, for a given SPL level and driver, the LOWER in frequency you play the higher the velocities of the driver! Do the math, and you'll see that as you drop down in frequency at a constant SPL, as you drop in frequency you increase proportionally in velocity, and excursion goes up by the square.
Bandwidth is more limited by inductance and breakup modes; the first setting a hard limit on usable extension (how fast you can slew current through the driver will limit how fast it can change direction, hence frequency). The latter dictates how high you can play nicely.
Typically domes excel in the latter, when compared to cones. In the former it's usually cones that win (typical midrange cones have smaller diameter voice coils). It's the fact the ATC has a 3" diameter voice coil that gives it such a high power handling. That of course comes with the penalty of higher inductance, and thus all the work that ATC has done (very well, I might add) to lower inductance in the form of shorting rings in the motor.
And of course excursion also becomes an issue. Domes nearly always have a single suspension point - the spider/surround. This makes them highly susceptible to rocking with any kind of excursion. Cones, with seperate surrounds and spiders, are much more stable under excursion and thus can provide higher absolute SPLs or deeper frequency extension.
Check this out
Vifa makes this. I've used this to good effect . It has an open back and the low end can be tailored by a rear enclosure/dampening wizardry.
D75MX-31-08
Nominal impedance [ohm] 8 SPECIAL FEATURES:
Voice coil resistance [ohm] 5.9
Nominal power [W] 80 Precoated fabric
Short term max power [W] - diaphragm
Long term max power [W] -
Operating power [W] 2.5 Low moving mass
Sensitivity [dB] 92
Frequency range [kHz] 0.5-6 Internal ferrite
Free air resonance [Hz] 300 magnet
Voice coil diameter [mm] 76
Voice coil height [mm] 3 Very linear impedance
Air gap height [mm] 2
Voice coil inductance [mH] - Internal Diaphragm
Eff. diaphragm Area [cm²] 55 protection grille
Moving mass [g] 3.3
Magnet weight [g]/[oz] 240/8.5
Force factor [Bl] 4.7
VAS [l] -
Qms -
Qes -
Qts -
Mark
Vifa makes this. I've used this to good effect . It has an open back and the low end can be tailored by a rear enclosure/dampening wizardry.
D75MX-31-08
Nominal impedance [ohm] 8 SPECIAL FEATURES:
Voice coil resistance [ohm] 5.9
Nominal power [W] 80 Precoated fabric
Short term max power [W] - diaphragm
Long term max power [W] -
Operating power [W] 2.5 Low moving mass
Sensitivity [dB] 92
Frequency range [kHz] 0.5-6 Internal ferrite
Free air resonance [Hz] 300 magnet
Voice coil diameter [mm] 76
Voice coil height [mm] 3 Very linear impedance
Air gap height [mm] 2
Voice coil inductance [mH] - Internal Diaphragm
Eff. diaphragm Area [cm²] 55 protection grille
Moving mass [g] 3.3
Magnet weight [g]/[oz] 240/8.5
Force factor [Bl] 4.7
VAS [l] -
Qms -
Qes -
Qts -
Mark
Attachments
Dan, thank you for the bl/mm precision.
But I'm wondering, if you have 2 identical drivers, but one has half the moving mass of the other, it should have faster risetime. Correct? Is there other parameters?
I can't stop to think that for a same motor strength (BL), the driver with the small moving mass will accelerate faster. (Newton law).
F
But I'm wondering, if you have 2 identical drivers, but one has half the moving mass of the other, it should have faster risetime. Correct? Is there other parameters?
I can't stop to think that for a same motor strength (BL), the driver with the small moving mass will accelerate faster. (Newton law).
F
tbla said:
the atc is in a different league to the others, but IMO the scan-speak 7" cone is right up there with it. I've not had the chance to compare them directly, but both give a BIG jump in midrange quality above everything else.
My ears tell me the best parameter to use when selecting quality midrange drivers is price!
tbla said:there is the atc dome - and then there is all the others........!
that's it, but the atc is also much more expensive.
ever heard a pair of atc100sl get a full blast from a krell fpb300 - i can garanti that any other middome would melt/burn in only a few seconds.....
The ATC 100 'only' has the standard version of the SM75.150, if you really want the next step up then audition the 'Super' version. Higher BL and Efficiency and better sounding.
I'm working on some speakers right now which feature this speaker alongside a Scan R2904 and Seas L22 bass.
I agree with the others, Morel, Visaton and Vifa domes are OK but are made to sound poor against something like the Excel M15CHT or Scan 8453 etc.
I had 3-way with Morel MDM-55 and liked it very much.
Morel MDM55 is excellent midrange driver for the price. At 90db/1m distorsions are still under 0.8% (H2) & 0.1% (H3) from 700Hz up and it has very linear f. response up to 7kHz. There are really few other midrange drivers at any price that can match that. With a nice crossover points it sounds very nice. It's true that lower crossover point is in the 700-1000Hz region, but then, some of the (to me) best sounding speakers have drivers crossed in that region.
Morel MDM55 is excellent midrange driver for the price. At 90db/1m distorsions are still under 0.8% (H2) & 0.1% (H3) from 700Hz up and it has very linear f. response up to 7kHz. There are really few other midrange drivers at any price that can match that. With a nice crossover points it sounds very nice. It's true that lower crossover point is in the 700-1000Hz region, but then, some of the (to me) best sounding speakers have drivers crossed in that region.
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