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The horn and compression driver mentioned above (K-402, BM-D750) in the 400 Hz-10 kHz band achieves -43 dB THD when driven at 100 dB, measured at 1 metre, most of which is 2nd and 3rd harmonics. Higher order harmonics (the audible ones, according to Geddes) are below -50 to -55 dB.
What was the relative harmonics that you were talking about?
Chris
The horn and compression driver mentioned above (K-402, BM-D750) in the 400 Hz-10 kHz band achieves -43 dB THD when driven at 100 dB, measured at 1 metre, most of which is 2nd and 3rd harmonics. Higher order harmonics (the audible ones, according to Geddes) are below -50 to -55 dB.
What was the relative harmonics that you were talking about?
Chris
I have many drivers here to compare - if you want the best midrange response and don't want to break the bank get some Community M200 (used discontinued) (up to 3K) or M200a . They really are superior within their range than anything I have heard including big dollar drivers. Add a good 1" driver for upper treble and you will be in heaven. The depth of image, fatique free sound and density of tone make the M200 clearly stand out.
The 200a is the same diaphragm as the 200 and is current production. You can buy a brand new 200a for 300 US.
The 200/200a is better than any cone I have heard in a horn above 600 Hz. I have come to the conclusion I like a horn loaded cone 100 to around 600-800, than a compression driver mid to around 3K than a 1" (or smaller) small format compression driver 3K or so up
thanks Pooh, as I always say : USA is the paradise of Audio enthusiasts (Japan also), me has just good beef food here ! Beef skin is not usefull for diaphragms !
Thanks for the tip, it's a very good one when you see the price of a 2" TAD for instance even if the last climbs higher, some prefer a dedicated tweeter or an AMT above the mid !
Second time in a week an experienced fellow advised me non metalic diagphragm
When I see the efficienty of this compression drivers like some JBLs, sometimes I ask myself if some are not able without any horn to swap the best cone medium from ATC for hifi in the mid range ! Hummm, my crazyness here I assume...
Thanks for the tip, it's a very good one when you see the price of a 2" TAD for instance even if the last climbs higher, some prefer a dedicated tweeter or an AMT above the mid !
Second time in a week an experienced fellow advised me non metalic diagphragm
When I see the efficienty of this compression drivers like some JBLs, sometimes I ask myself if some are not able without any horn to swap the best cone medium from ATC for hifi in the mid range ! Hummm, my crazyness here I assume...
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Another idea into the mix...
Since the topic is budget, too much efficiency can be a bad thing, because it needs a higher signal-to-noise ration. This combo:
Computer --> mini DSP --> budget amp --> compression driver
...is workable but has audible hissy / crunchy background noise, whereas a direct radiator does not.
"When I see the efficienty of this compression drivers like some JBLs, sometimes I ask myself if some are not able without any horn to swap the best cone medium from ATC for hifi in the mid range ! Hummm, my crazyness here I assume..."
I measured this yesterday, when I had a 2445J open. The response from the dome side of the opened-up driver is very ragged. Maybe it would be better with heavy modification (like ripping out the phase plug, and stuffing the resulting cavity with wool), but that would seem like a waste.
Since the topic is budget, too much efficiency can be a bad thing, because it needs a higher signal-to-noise ration. This combo:
Computer --> mini DSP --> budget amp --> compression driver
...is workable but has audible hissy / crunchy background noise, whereas a direct radiator does not.
"When I see the efficienty of this compression drivers like some JBLs, sometimes I ask myself if some are not able without any horn to swap the best cone medium from ATC for hifi in the mid range ! Hummm, my crazyness here I assume..."
I measured this yesterday, when I had a 2445J open. The response from the dome side of the opened-up driver is very ragged. Maybe it would be better with heavy modification (like ripping out the phase plug, and stuffing the resulting cavity with wool), but that would seem like a waste.
Probably true. I think there are just a few ways to slice the cake, and that surely is one of them. Recipe #1 that has worked for me is a full range in a large round tractrix type horn covering most of the vocal range, adding in mid bass and sub bass, or just a bass section, with a tweeter on the very top,
OR:
(your recipe):
Sub of your choice; mid bass= horn loaded 8-10 inch cone 100-750ish, mid range from a nice compression driver/horn 750-4kish, tweeter on top
Yep. There ya go: recipe # (looks like a combination)
Thanks all for the advice. As time is so scarce I would like to find an appropriate 2" horn rather than DIY. Hollowboy has some great options but ideally I would like something that can hold pattern down to around 500-600hz. Anything out there? They would also need to be reasonably light if I am to import them or ideally available locally at a reasonable price. Azurahorns are out of the price range at the moment.
Parts express has good rates for international shipping but I can't find anything there that meets my criteria
Parts express has good rates for international shipping but I can't find anything there that meets my criteria
OK, large format driver, pattern control to 500-600, light weight, local to Australia and how much do you want to spend? How high does it need to go? What kind of market is there in Australia for used PA stuff?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Horn-Fla...368883?hash=item51d4bae433:g:pMgAAOSwX~dWoXWL
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Yes, agreed. I certainly enjoy mine but they are a lot more expensive than the Selenium D250 is new, no?
Yes, different animals though.
I think OP should look at a new or used pair of P Audio 750 drivers - with these horns - probably good to 600-700 on the b0ttom and 7k + on top.
Horn Flare Large Format 2" Throat 4 Bolt Mount | eBay
OK, I haven't kept up with the thread, I just remember this.
Darn, I wish the audio lovers lived closer to me. I have this kind of stuff just waiting for a new home.
Any recommendations for midrange compression drivers on a budget? Of course they need to sound great but also be cheap
Darn, I wish the audio lovers lived closer to me. I have this kind of stuff just waiting for a new home.
I couldn't find the perfect horn either (for <$1000) - that's why I got the biggest horns I could (for <$200 delivered) and am now modifying them - extending throat and mouth, 'fixing' throat angle - somewhat delayed by messing about with diaphragm changes and trying to get things 'perfect'
The horn Pooh & I have linked to (the VFM horn for 2" driver) would keep pattern control lower if you simply extended the mouth.
I think a frame of stiff ply + curved sections (using bendy ply or 3mm MFD) to do that should be a reasonably quick build.
If you don't have many tools, you can order ply precut, so all you have to do is drill, glue and screw. You can cut bendy panels with a carpet knife or similar - 3mm material is only a small step up from foamcore.
If you're nearby - in Victoria - I could put it together for you, basically for the fun of building / hearing a new project, without having to pay for it
Caveats:
1) 'quick' for me might be ~a month
2) I'd leave it to you to use filler / sanding / paint / grill cloth to bring them up to whatever visual standard you wanted
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