Great news! Sounds like transformer saturation was indeed the cause of your distortion problems.
Are you using an electronic/active crossover for the 300Hz high pass? or using passive parts in front of the transformers.
Concerning the neon lamp blink rate:
Glad you got the neon lamp charge indicator working.
A blink rate of once every 25 seconds is a good indication that the panel hasn't developed lots of leakage. But, it also could indicate a coating or coating contact that is starting to go bad. To determine which it is, you need to look at the flash rate when bias supply is first turned on and the panel starts to charge.
When you first plug in the HV power supply after having it off for a while, does the lamp flash rapidly for a short while as the panel charges up and then settle down to the once over 25 seconds rate? Or does it start at the slow rate. A rapid initial flash rate indicates a good coating and contact.
If I remember correctly, the neon blinks slow all the while - one good blink at turn on, and then slow blink...i assume this is not exactly good news...I can recheck this later...sounds nice tho - loud too. Only thing is the high frequency is not quite like the ribbons on the tympanis.
I currently have them off the HF pass of the tympani external crossover (18db BW slope at 350hz). This is not the final arrangement, but was to be a simple check before going to biamp with the active DCX-2496...
I currently have them off the HF pass of the tympani external crossover (18db BW slope at 350hz). This is not the final arrangement, but was to be a simple check before going to biamp with the active DCX-2496...
I have a pr of Magnepan MG3a i pulled the ribbion out an use it with my Full rang ESL
But if you can get one of the ML tranfourmers that has a primary center tap you can get great highs....this lets you feed the center tap with the Tone setup i posted this makes a big diff in the highs....but you CLS do look goooooood...let me no if you run across a pr of old panels CLs or any ML...Work or not..thanks
But if you can get one of the ML tranfourmers that has a primary center tap you can get great highs....this lets you feed the center tap with the Tone setup i posted this makes a big diff in the highs....but you CLS do look goooooood...let me no if you run across a pr of old panels CLs or any ML...Work or not..thanks
I just stumbled across this thread. Wow, this is great stuff. I have always been intrigued by the combination of ML tweeter panels + Maggie bass panels and have done some playing around enough to think there is a lot of potential for clean, fast sound through the spectrum.
I have a pair of ML Quest Z and a pair of ML CLS IIz with a pair of panels for the Quest (not working so well) and the CLS IIz (supposed to have had low hours and working). I had sold my Maggie 2.5R in the interim so now I have to decide if I am keeping them or not.
@tyu, if you are interested in panels, please PM me. I am in the Chicago area.
@john65b, I am in the Chicago area and if you want to get more info about the stock CLS set up let me know. I might need to tap your experiences if I were to build something like your CLS set up. Have you considered raising it off the floor? I used to have a pair of CLS and now CLS IIz but on sound anchor stands. The sound stage is VERY different. Much better on the CLS IIz on stands.
I have a pair of ML Quest Z and a pair of ML CLS IIz with a pair of panels for the Quest (not working so well) and the CLS IIz (supposed to have had low hours and working). I had sold my Maggie 2.5R in the interim so now I have to decide if I am keeping them or not.
@tyu, if you are interested in panels, please PM me. I am in the Chicago area.
@john65b, I am in the Chicago area and if you want to get more info about the stock CLS set up let me know. I might need to tap your experiences if I were to build something like your CLS set up. Have you considered raising it off the floor? I used to have a pair of CLS and now CLS IIz but on sound anchor stands. The sound stage is VERY different. Much better on the CLS IIz on stands.
I got 24 or 25 guage copper and aluminum from somewhere - I guess it was Magnepan a few years ago when I was restoring some 2.5R...
I have another set of bad T1D in storage that I need to restore too...I will keep one set of Bass Panels for these ML's...combo is very nice.
I plan on lifting them about 18 inches to raise teh sweet spot. Currently need to sit in chair for it. Not much vertical projection on these...horizontal is OK, better that the maggies.
I posted the schematic for the power supply / bias / stepup transformer I built. It can be done cheaper / easier, but I used the safer more expensive DC to Emco HVDC converter...
I have another set of bad T1D in storage that I need to restore too...I will keep one set of Bass Panels for these ML's...combo is very nice.
I plan on lifting them about 18 inches to raise teh sweet spot. Currently need to sit in chair for it. Not much vertical projection on these...horizontal is OK, better that the maggies.
I posted the schematic for the power supply / bias / stepup transformer I built. It can be done cheaper / easier, but I used the safer more expensive DC to Emco HVDC converter...
I have a pair of ML Quest Z and a pair of ML CLS IIz with a pair of panels for the Quest (not working so well) and the CLS IIz (supposed to have had low hours and working). I had sold my Maggie 2.5R in the interim so now I have to decide if I am keeping them or not.
I have sent no. or i can call U....thanks
I have sent no. or i can call U....thanks
Tyu:
As shown on post 23, I have paralleled the amp side of the transformers and do not have the centertap for the ML tone shape circuit to get those highs back. Any other way of getting a tone shape circuit in there?
I currently have the panels on a amp with only 150hz fed to it from a DCX2496....and no tone shape circuit.
As shown on post 23, I have paralleled the amp side of the transformers and do not have the centertap for the ML tone shape circuit to get those highs back. Any other way of getting a tone shape circuit in there?
I currently have the panels on a amp with only 150hz fed to it from a DCX2496....and no tone shape circuit.
I Do not have the same tranfourmers you do... but what i have found is that the setpup tranfourmers sound better ran with the amp side NOt ran in parallel.
So you can set your tranfourmer up with a center tap!....you have nothing too lose you can all ways go back...This Centap input is all that put some ML up at the top.... the same panels with 1/2 input sale for less go fig...you would think other would just put the better uper grade crossover in the ML...but thay just upgrade the parts of the lower setup...all the tranfourms are the same till the summit clx thay have trod.tranfourmers
Thay trun off the center tap on the input run it to neg input... lot of room to get better sound all the way back to the SL3...it even has the same tranfourmer an centap on the amp input side as the ML Prodigy it just uses two tranfourmers.
I have put the same setup in the Ascent as the Prodigy
Nite an day... This is a what i call a 3D setup...funny others have not done this??
But if you have help with your info?? thanks
So you can set your tranfourmer up with a center tap!....you have nothing too lose you can all ways go back...This Centap input is all that put some ML up at the top.... the same panels with 1/2 input sale for less go fig...you would think other would just put the better uper grade crossover in the ML...but thay just upgrade the parts of the lower setup...all the tranfourms are the same till the summit clx thay have trod.tranfourmers
Thay trun off the center tap on the input run it to neg input... lot of room to get better sound all the way back to the SL3...it even has the same tranfourmer an centap on the amp input side as the ML Prodigy it just uses two tranfourmers.
I have put the same setup in the Ascent as the Prodigy
Nite an day... This is a what i call a 3D setup...funny others have not done this??
But if you have help with your info?? thanks
I dont have the tranfourmer you have for sure.. I just have Acoustat t1..t2.. low high an About 8 of the ML.
But you sounds right...so you wont no if you dont go...but if you like what you have hay....you are still above 300hz with the CLSs you may be abel to pull it off.. i have seen the tranfourmers that ML uses in the summit an it looks....like it no better than one of the ones you have... i know this is just looks ...i no it diff..Other can tell you more on the tranfourmer you have...but i would like you to try it an tell us all what you find...thanks
But you sounds right...so you wont no if you dont go...but if you like what you have hay....you are still above 300hz with the CLSs you may be abel to pull it off.. i have seen the tranfourmers that ML uses in the summit an it looks....like it no better than one of the ones you have... i know this is just looks ...i no it diff..Other can tell you more on the tranfourmer you have...but i would like you to try it an tell us all what you find...thanks
Why not use the EQ built into the DCX2496? (As you don't really want to do this passively anyway?)
Believe it or not I was playing with the DCX2496 EQ last night..I have never been a big fan of EQs, but it works quite nice...still have a little playing to do - I have to read up on manual for the difference between Dynamic EQ and regular EQ...
It also appears that the higher I set the XO frequency into the CLS, the higher the HF rolloff... I am playing with 300hz now...
The ML panels just dont stop rolling off with time....if you could get the panel open an just look at the dust on the mylar..you would not think any highs at all could get out..but it a long shot.. i have not done the CLS panels yet there just seting here.. but from all the other 16"x48" an 12"x48"
ML panels come alive, it a mind binder...An make me think that the ML would be the one of the best ESL money could buy if the panels did not lose output...but the CLs is a shot in the dark. As a big a fan of the ML ...i would not tell anyone to buy a pr over 10 years old with out knowing that you well have to do work on the panels to get the best sound.
I have had 10pr of ML here an only found one pr that were over 10years old an the panels were at about 85-90% sold those an it paid for 2more pr with week panels..if the EQ works that great but like you i not much on EQs or low price crossovers...i mean come on with a ESL ....but this is me...have fun
ML panels come alive, it a mind binder...An make me think that the ML would be the one of the best ESL money could buy if the panels did not lose output...but the CLs is a shot in the dark. As a big a fan of the ML ...i would not tell anyone to buy a pr over 10 years old with out knowing that you well have to do work on the panels to get the best sound.
I have had 10pr of ML here an only found one pr that were over 10years old an the panels were at about 85-90% sold those an it paid for 2more pr with week panels..if the EQ works that great but like you i not much on EQs or low price crossovers...i mean come on with a ESL ....but this is me...have fun
I have confirmed that I have rolloff around 5k, and sufficiently high that playing with the EQ on the DCX2496 helps only a little.
I am looking for some different step up transformers that I cane get a primary side centertap that I can put the Tone Shaping circuit on...
Anyone have some trannies to spare? I would rather build another Power supply than tamper with the one I built.
I was thinking of getting the lesser Antek transformers and not paralleling the 6v side, but leaving a centertap (for tone shaping) at the expense of getting 40:1 instead of 80:1 turns ratio on the transformers...
Also looking at this Edcor - has 4 / 8 / 16 ohm taps so I would have an amp-side CT for tone shaping if I use the 0 / 4 / 8 taps, correct?
http://www.edcorusa.com/p/902/cxpp30-ms-10k
I am looking for some different step up transformers that I cane get a primary side centertap that I can put the Tone Shaping circuit on...
Anyone have some trannies to spare? I would rather build another Power supply than tamper with the one I built.
I was thinking of getting the lesser Antek transformers and not paralleling the 6v side, but leaving a centertap (for tone shaping) at the expense of getting 40:1 instead of 80:1 turns ratio on the transformers...
Also looking at this Edcor - has 4 / 8 / 16 ohm taps so I would have an amp-side CT for tone shaping if I use the 0 / 4 / 8 taps, correct?
http://www.edcorusa.com/p/902/cxpp30-ms-10k
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I think you may wont to Stop....I hate to say this... I am all about DIY an ML... But MOST of the rolloff is the panel..The tone setup that ML uses is more for the mid.... yes it let them get more output out of the panels but....I think you well get little higher fr out of any setup even the ML tranfourmers them selfs...I have miny people who have heard my Re-done panels an think thay can go get even new ML like the summit i had here for 6weeks i got more output out of the re-done panels.....As i have said my CLs sound like there puting out 1/4 the SPL that a panels with the new bias feeds that can be added...But if i try to open the CLS up to do the re-do that my be the end of the panels...thay look great!...But Knowing my self ...I well open them..But most wont $1500 for new panels an then for me knowing that there is even more output like 2-3db more..with the right bias feeds ... That i cant get would not work for me.... ...Heres what i would do if you can go to the guy that has the CLS an hear his setup an see how much diff you hear... I think it may have a littel better highs but ....Well youll see
goodluck...An it only your money .
goodluck...An it only your money .
TYU,
I have another set of CLS IIa panels too. I will try these to see if the highs are there. If they are, I will either sell the Original CLS panels (with lowish HF output), or attempt to open them up, clean off the mylar, add new bias strip, and recoat them.
I will try this test tonight if I have the time......
I have another set of CLS IIa panels too. I will try these to see if the highs are there. If they are, I will either sell the Original CLS panels (with lowish HF output), or attempt to open them up, clean off the mylar, add new bias strip, and recoat them.
I will try this test tonight if I have the time......
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