whats gan on said:
My mate Russ Andrews says he's not used fuses in his hifi plugs for over 25 year
To me it's an obvious weak link in the chain when the mains leads cost over £100 each. But ill test it and see what it sounds like. If I like it i'll look into the sub woofer fuse too for hopefully better bass
Brent
rowemeister said:
My mate Russ Andrews says he's not used fuses in his hifi plugs for over 25 year
To me it's an obvious weak link in the chain when the mains leads cost over £100 each. But ill test it and see what it sounds like. If I like it i'll look into the sub woofer fuse too for hopefully better bass
Brent
1m of mains lead costing £100 may be an improvement over the standard captured lead.
Surely the weak link in the supply goes much,much further - the house wiring, switchbox, supplier fuse and beyond. There are some major things about which you have no control.
Soldered-in fusewire is better than the expensive looking item you have - a six inch nail is cheaper!
Saying that the UK is one of the few countries to use plug-fuses is no excuse - they were introduced for a reason by a change in the law.
Andy
PS It does invalidate your insurance.
EDIT ... If the moderators see this, it may be removed as it goes against UK codes of practice etc.... Dangerous.
Brent
what is the mains supply rated at?
240volt 10amp
Initial turn on surge is on thing
Cable quality can be helpful, but there has to be the ponit of diminishing results.
Voltage is all relevent to earth or between to points
Me? i prefer circuit breakers
allan
ps I am not questioning your technical knowledge.
what is the mains supply rated at?
240volt 10amp
Initial turn on surge is on thing
Cable quality can be helpful, but there has to be the ponit of diminishing results.
Voltage is all relevent to earth or between to points
Me? i prefer circuit breakers
allan
ps I am not questioning your technical knowledge.
AWp - the detail that many miss is that the usual domestic mains arrangement in the UK is a ring-main (a loop of wire starting at the dis board, supporting several sockets, then returning to the dis board), not one radial per socket. Each ring is rated at 32A (usually, with 2.5mmSq wiring). This provides a very low impedance feed to support typical load diversity with an elegant economy in copper.
It also has the effect that though the connector (socket and plug) are officially rated at 13A each, the plug must be fused-down to protect the equipment and its lead, since prospective fault current in the days of fuse protection for the ring was >64A before the 32A ring fuse is guaranteed to blow.
This does not change just becasue we use MCBs now - - a 32A Class B MCB will pass >50A for 30s or so before disconnect. Thats 13Kw, way more than enough to start a serious fire, melt things, or both.
So - IMO there's no excuse for not using appropriate fuses; if your kit is so sensitive to PSU impedance that omitting fuses is audible, it's faulty...
HTH.
It also has the effect that though the connector (socket and plug) are officially rated at 13A each, the plug must be fused-down to protect the equipment and its lead, since prospective fault current in the days of fuse protection for the ring was >64A before the 32A ring fuse is guaranteed to blow.
This does not change just becasue we use MCBs now - - a 32A Class B MCB will pass >50A for 30s or so before disconnect. Thats 13Kw, way more than enough to start a serious fire, melt things, or both.
So - IMO there's no excuse for not using appropriate fuses; if your kit is so sensitive to PSU impedance that omitting fuses is audible, it's faulty...
HTH.
poynton said:
An £100+ mains lead makes a huge diff to the sound
Yes there are weak links all the way back to the distribution board. A dedicated ring is the best solution with NO RDC as these add impedance.
That expensive looking item is 6mm copper bar. Each peice cost about 12p. A fuse is more than that LOL.
Brent
Ummmmm, fuses, this isnt the first time the removal of the fuse issue has been raised.
Personally, myself i wouldnt use anything other than a 13amp fuse.
There is a big risk of fire and/or electrocution under fault conditions. Most RCDs and MCBs are rated at 30 or 40ms before the unit will trip the supply. I am not totally versed on the individual manufacturers spec though. As mentioned it is possible to pass sufficient current to cause a heating effect of a cable or insulation. This heating effect may cause a fire hours after the initial fault has occured and been cleared. I have realtime examples of this that i have been involved in personaly. (work, not burning down my house lol)
The distribution fuse/device if rated at say 16 amps, on a 40ms trip device, would potentially pass a high fault current, i say potentially as this depends on so many factors including "luck" !
The higher the current available the greater the risk.
Most Consumer distribution panels are rated at 32amp and higher, the fuse offers an additional layer of protection to both equipment and user, the higher the current availability, and the less protection afforded must mean an increase in risk and potential harm ?
Brent, what do most other cable makers use ? I can see the limitations of the fuse, but wondering is there another alternative ? There are cartridge fuses available that may also offer a compromise ?
I am pretty certain that an electrical fire caused by a piece of equipment wich has had the fuse bypassed would invalidate insurance immediatly as mentioned. So there may be some liability risks there possibly that would need to be clarified or disclaimed against ?
Personally, myself i wouldnt use anything other than a 13amp fuse.
There is a big risk of fire and/or electrocution under fault conditions. Most RCDs and MCBs are rated at 30 or 40ms before the unit will trip the supply. I am not totally versed on the individual manufacturers spec though. As mentioned it is possible to pass sufficient current to cause a heating effect of a cable or insulation. This heating effect may cause a fire hours after the initial fault has occured and been cleared. I have realtime examples of this that i have been involved in personaly. (work, not burning down my house lol)
The distribution fuse/device if rated at say 16 amps, on a 40ms trip device, would potentially pass a high fault current, i say potentially as this depends on so many factors including "luck" !
The higher the current available the greater the risk.
Most Consumer distribution panels are rated at 32amp and higher, the fuse offers an additional layer of protection to both equipment and user, the higher the current availability, and the less protection afforded must mean an increase in risk and potential harm ?
Brent, what do most other cable makers use ? I can see the limitations of the fuse, but wondering is there another alternative ? There are cartridge fuses available that may also offer a compromise ?
I am pretty certain that an electrical fire caused by a piece of equipment wich has had the fuse bypassed would invalidate insurance immediatly as mentioned. So there may be some liability risks there possibly that would need to be clarified or disclaimed against ?
I built one of these for my cd player.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ttse.html
cant hear no difference. Ive changed, caps, resistors, speaker cables, op amps, dampening blah blah. They all brought about changes in sound some more subtle than others, but the mains cable made no difference. I have tried various times with friends too and nada.
Any one else had this experience?
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ttse.html
cant hear no difference. Ive changed, caps, resistors, speaker cables, op amps, dampening blah blah. They all brought about changes in sound some more subtle than others, but the mains cable made no difference. I have tried various times with friends too and nada.
Any one else had this experience?
avr300 said:
Because it lowers the impedance a lot. Same as cleaning the pins can have an effect on the sound. Brent has measured the loop resistance of various power leads and the difference the "last few feet" (with good plugs) makes is pretty significant, numerically. You can also keep more RFI out and if it's shielded prevent leakage of a field into interconnects etc.
Don't expect miracles, especially if you are a very casual listener, and don't know your own sound well.
I heard a marked change using a nice Ebay lead on my CD63, a small change using a Russ Andrews Classic on my power amp, and virtually no change using an Ebay lead on my preamp (maybe because it has a mains filter inside, who knows).
Simon
avr, you may be right, in a poor mains supply such as a standard ring main, the copper conductors pick up all manner of noises and transients. Combine that with a less than good earth, then it becomes difficult for a mains lead to recover anything from the supply. Hence, you hear nothing.
In a mains supply system, such as a single run from the consumer unit, minimal mains connections, good quality measured earth, polished mains connections for instance, then consider this............the mains feed is now low noise, and a little purer sinusoidaly than the ring main (maybe), then it is possible that a decent sheilded mains lead may just prevent that little bit of interference from the rest of the house wiring entering the cable and ending up at the source or amplifier?
I am pretty sceptical myself, however, i have something like 4 metres of sheilded (main earth end only) 3.5mm2 silver plated mains cable with large ferrites at the outlet end, a polished MK socket also. My mains leads i made also, cheaply, all polished connections on MK plugs. The fuse is a polished 13amp. cables fit into iec standard sockets again polished. But i also run a large mains filter just for good measure lol, but thats just incidental.
I can hear a slight difference, but i reckon its the decent mains feed thats doing it, thats your first job to be done, get the mains feed right first. Dont skimp on it, splash out.
There is lots to consider on mains supplies such as power factor, impedance, influencing interference, the quality of the feed to the home, earth impedence in the ground, then the mains sinewave itself.
In a mains supply system, such as a single run from the consumer unit, minimal mains connections, good quality measured earth, polished mains connections for instance, then consider this............the mains feed is now low noise, and a little purer sinusoidaly than the ring main (maybe), then it is possible that a decent sheilded mains lead may just prevent that little bit of interference from the rest of the house wiring entering the cable and ending up at the source or amplifier?
I am pretty sceptical myself, however, i have something like 4 metres of sheilded (main earth end only) 3.5mm2 silver plated mains cable with large ferrites at the outlet end, a polished MK socket also. My mains leads i made also, cheaply, all polished connections on MK plugs. The fuse is a polished 13amp. cables fit into iec standard sockets again polished. But i also run a large mains filter just for good measure lol, but thats just incidental.
I can hear a slight difference, but i reckon its the decent mains feed thats doing it, thats your first job to be done, get the mains feed right first. Dont skimp on it, splash out.
There is lots to consider on mains supplies such as power factor, impedance, influencing interference, the quality of the feed to the home, earth impedence in the ground, then the mains sinewave itself.
