D
Deleted member 24284
Yes, sure, maybe that's the best use of a transmission line.
But there is a better solution: get a used B&W Nautilus, throw out the drivers, and put the Mangers in place of the bass driver so that it'll get the biggest enclosure volume.
Or, back to my original proposal:
Instead of a half sphere open baffle, I think a plain cylinder will do too. The back wave will bounce several times against the cylinder walls before making it out into open air in my back yard, but that's fine, as long as it doesn't bounce towards the driver thus affecting the acoustic impedance. A sight improvement is a cone instead of a cylinder, to minimize the rear wave reflections before it hits open air.
The window I showed is on the second floor, and the neighbor in that direction is a single storey house, so the sound should just hit the roof of that house.
I think the bass is more problematic.
But there is a better solution: get a used B&W Nautilus, throw out the drivers, and put the Mangers in place of the bass driver so that it'll get the biggest enclosure volume.
Or, back to my original proposal:
Instead of a half sphere open baffle, I think a plain cylinder will do too. The back wave will bounce several times against the cylinder walls before making it out into open air in my back yard, but that's fine, as long as it doesn't bounce towards the driver thus affecting the acoustic impedance. A sight improvement is a cone instead of a cylinder, to minimize the rear wave reflections before it hits open air.
The window I showed is on the second floor, and the neighbor in that direction is a single storey house, so the sound should just hit the roof of that house.
I think the bass is more problematic.
Manger in a pipe...
No worries....There will be no bass to worry anyone...You or the neighbours.
Run a Manger full range in an open ended pipe ( of any length) and will have almost no output below 100Hz...
Turn up the power and you will see wild cone flapping, hear a lot of distortion then silence when one of the (twin) voice coils gives up!
I tried experimenting with a pair of traffic cones I acquired (!) Its actually a good cheap solution if you ensure everything is air tight ( gaskets and silicone sealer) and use a good amount of internal Twaron or " Angel Hair" and add some dampening to the internal walls.
This is tricky as they make traffic cones from tough poly prop and its difficult to glue things too esp on a curved surface.
Simply build a 10mm ply or MDF box around the cone and paint / veneer to taste.
A traffic cone is an ultra low cost ( er free!) non resonant, asymmetrical sealed box solution....An open ended pipe is a waste of time and effort.
Cheers
D.
PS Different sizes of traffic cones are "available".
No worries....There will be no bass to worry anyone...You or the neighbours.
Run a Manger full range in an open ended pipe ( of any length) and will have almost no output below 100Hz...
Turn up the power and you will see wild cone flapping, hear a lot of distortion then silence when one of the (twin) voice coils gives up!
I tried experimenting with a pair of traffic cones I acquired (!) Its actually a good cheap solution if you ensure everything is air tight ( gaskets and silicone sealer) and use a good amount of internal Twaron or " Angel Hair" and add some dampening to the internal walls.
This is tricky as they make traffic cones from tough poly prop and its difficult to glue things too esp on a curved surface.
Simply build a 10mm ply or MDF box around the cone and paint / veneer to taste.
A traffic cone is an ultra low cost ( er free!) non resonant, asymmetrical sealed box solution....An open ended pipe is a waste of time and effort.
Cheers
D.
PS Different sizes of traffic cones are "available".
Traffic cone to Tear Drops....
Hiya,
The traffic cone prototypes sounded so good it provided the info and motivation to commit to building the "Prey".
The cones were to thin ( approx. 3mm Poly Prop) to be completely non-resonant, also to light weight, and a simple tapering cone is not the best internal shape. Check out B&W's white paper on internal reflections.
The Prey incorporated almost every feature and material I could have on my wish list :
Asymmetric internals - The internal walls had varying wall thickness, with internal rippled with random ridges and valleys (plus minus 6 mm) with a minimum wall thickness of 20mm.
The walls themselves were handmade (in custom mould) made up of multiple layers of Resin soaked GRP with over lapping bitumen layers and automotive sound deadening material.
Finally a neoprene inner lining and Twaron stuffing.
I replaced the copper Litz wiring that Manger use with 0.6mm Solid core silver wiring ( 4 strands as there are twin voice coils) crimped to the Cardas speaker terminal mounted on the rear.
Each head unit weighed 20.5 Kg and was mounted on a custom Sorbothane pad ( variable wall thickness 12mm to 25mm thick) and sat on top of whatever bass / midrange cabinet I was using.
If I was still using floor standing loudspeakers the "Prey" would be on top!
Hope this helps...!
D.
Hiya,
The traffic cone prototypes sounded so good it provided the info and motivation to commit to building the "Prey".
The cones were to thin ( approx. 3mm Poly Prop) to be completely non-resonant, also to light weight, and a simple tapering cone is not the best internal shape. Check out B&W's white paper on internal reflections.
The Prey incorporated almost every feature and material I could have on my wish list :
Asymmetric internals - The internal walls had varying wall thickness, with internal rippled with random ridges and valleys (plus minus 6 mm) with a minimum wall thickness of 20mm.
The walls themselves were handmade (in custom mould) made up of multiple layers of Resin soaked GRP with over lapping bitumen layers and automotive sound deadening material.
Finally a neoprene inner lining and Twaron stuffing.
I replaced the copper Litz wiring that Manger use with 0.6mm Solid core silver wiring ( 4 strands as there are twin voice coils) crimped to the Cardas speaker terminal mounted on the rear.
Each head unit weighed 20.5 Kg and was mounted on a custom Sorbothane pad ( variable wall thickness 12mm to 25mm thick) and sat on top of whatever bass / midrange cabinet I was using.
If I was still using floor standing loudspeakers the "Prey" would be on top!
Hope this helps...!
D.
Attachments
Final solution...
Hiya,
For me its now all about line arrays (on wall or in wall) for two channel and home cinema.
The Manger really spoiled me, it was and is stunning, but not perfect ( nothing is) and it requires massive ££££ to be spent on the bass and low midrange, (three way is optimum) and only state of the art DSP based crossovers will do it justice.
Now I have developed a version of the little 4.5 inch Neo magnet BMR which is specifically designed for multiple driver line arrays and or panel layout.
It breaks all the rules and leaves people gobsmacked...
It does not require any crossover at all!
Plus when used in line arrays of 9 or more has true full range bass performance as well as gorgeous mid and top.
It can also be used in singles, I replaced a Dynaudio tweeter with one of my BMR's, crossed it over at 200Hz using an old AV amp...It was a huge upgrade over the passive crossovers and silk domes....I will post a pic in a mo.
£50 per driver Vs £500 plus for the Manger also helps make it attractive!
Cheers
D.
Hiya,
For me its now all about line arrays (on wall or in wall) for two channel and home cinema.
The Manger really spoiled me, it was and is stunning, but not perfect ( nothing is) and it requires massive ££££ to be spent on the bass and low midrange, (three way is optimum) and only state of the art DSP based crossovers will do it justice.
Now I have developed a version of the little 4.5 inch Neo magnet BMR which is specifically designed for multiple driver line arrays and or panel layout.
It breaks all the rules and leaves people gobsmacked...
It does not require any crossover at all!
Plus when used in line arrays of 9 or more has true full range bass performance as well as gorgeous mid and top.
It can also be used in singles, I replaced a Dynaudio tweeter with one of my BMR's, crossed it over at 200Hz using an old AV amp...It was a huge upgrade over the passive crossovers and silk domes....I will post a pic in a mo.
£50 per driver Vs £500 plus for the Manger also helps make it attractive!
Cheers
D.
Attachments
BMR replacing Dynaudio silk dome tweeter
This was very interesting...
Really big upgrade converting passive two way Dynaudio's to active " wide bander plus sub"...
The guy who bought them is a key board player and top class session musician, he is over the moon.
I must admit even I am pretty stunned by just how great these little speakers sound.
Active crossover is via the old Yamaha AV amp, Johns Musical fidelity amp powers the BMR and an old Audiolab power amp drivers the Dynaudio 6.5 inch bass drivers.
I also replaced the useless pillow stuffing and packing foam use in their speakers with proper felt dampening and Twaron stuffing.
Cheers
D.
This was very interesting...
Really big upgrade converting passive two way Dynaudio's to active " wide bander plus sub"...
The guy who bought them is a key board player and top class session musician, he is over the moon.
I must admit even I am pretty stunned by just how great these little speakers sound.
Active crossover is via the old Yamaha AV amp, Johns Musical fidelity amp powers the BMR and an old Audiolab power amp drivers the Dynaudio 6.5 inch bass drivers.
I also replaced the useless pillow stuffing and packing foam use in their speakers with proper felt dampening and Twaron stuffing.
Cheers
D.
Attachments
Here's another speaker that uses the bending wave principle. Göbel.
With a low crossover and complete coverage of the vocal with the bending wave driver, the sound is encredible coherent. Just too bad the effiency isn't higher. I missed the transient response and dynamics of horn.
Welcome to GÖBEL - Revolutionary Bending Wave Technology
With a low crossover and complete coverage of the vocal with the bending wave driver, the sound is encredible coherent. Just too bad the effiency isn't higher. I missed the transient response and dynamics of horn.
Welcome to GÖBEL - Revolutionary Bending Wave Technology
Attachments
More Bending wave drivers...Yea!
Thanks Omholt...These look cool!
Would love to hear them some time.
I know what you mean about horn dynamics....When I used the Manger in the big front loaded horns ( see a few posts back) they sounded even better than in a sealed box....Just so big and ugly!
Also not safe with young kids running around, very heavy, turned from a giant solid block of MDF.
Cheers
D.
Thanks Omholt...These look cool!
Would love to hear them some time.
I know what you mean about horn dynamics....When I used the Manger in the big front loaded horns ( see a few posts back) they sounded even better than in a sealed box....Just so big and ugly!
Also not safe with young kids running around, very heavy, turned from a giant solid block of MDF.
Cheers
D.
D
Deleted member 24284
Not my lathe...!
LOL!!
They would have been pretty rough if I had turned them..I sub contract all the difficult / dangerous work!
I think Ian ( the guy with the skills and work shop) cut circles / rings of MDF which were approx. the right size, then glued them all together to form a giant " stepped circular pyramid" then machined that stack.
They still ended up very heavy...They are in storage so cant weigh them to remember!
Cheers
D.
LOL!!
They would have been pretty rough if I had turned them..I sub contract all the difficult / dangerous work!
I think Ian ( the guy with the skills and work shop) cut circles / rings of MDF which were approx. the right size, then glued them all together to form a giant " stepped circular pyramid" then machined that stack.
They still ended up very heavy...They are in storage so cant weigh them to remember!
Cheers
D.
I immediately thought you were talking about this:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Deon
Ovation & Encore
PS
I think these guys might actually have combined the looks of my earlier design, the "Ovation" and the "Encore"...
But they didn't manage to copy the multi layer plywood construction...
135Kg per bass cabinet not including Manger head unit and Sistrum stand...
Or the cladding with curved ply sides and then real wood veneer and piano black with 16 coats of Polyester lacquer...Overkill by name Overkill by design!
Ah how I miss the glory days...Not...Shipping and Installing them was a logistical nightmare!
Anyway, onwards and upwards.
Cheers
Derek.
PS
I think these guys might actually have combined the looks of my earlier design, the "Ovation" and the "Encore"...
But they didn't manage to copy the multi layer plywood construction...
135Kg per bass cabinet not including Manger head unit and Sistrum stand...
Or the cladding with curved ply sides and then real wood veneer and piano black with 16 coats of Polyester lacquer...Overkill by name Overkill by design!
Ah how I miss the glory days...Not...Shipping and Installing them was a logistical nightmare!
Anyway, onwards and upwards.
Cheers
Derek.
Attachments
D
Deleted member 24284
Ah, good imagination!
That was in honor of the numerous Snowy Owl characters in Guardians of Ga'Hoole.
Those owls, in real life, don't tweet though.
D
Deleted member 24284
In keeping with my desire to let the rear wave exit the room via those two window openings, I just realized I can do the same for the bass rear wave, as long as I build a duct (transmission line) of the right dimensions with the right 90 degree corners to bring the rear wave up above the window sill and out into the yard.
An acoustically superior solution is to knock out a section of the inside and outside wall right where the inside floor meets the wall, to let out the rear wave directly. I'll have to add a sturdy stainless steel mesh to keep out the wildlife, and add a sliding door to close off that opening to protect the back of the woofers when they're not used.
This design will then be an infinite baffle speaker. The only part I haven't accomplished is coincident acoustic source for woofer and tweeter.
An acoustically superior solution is to knock out a section of the inside and outside wall right where the inside floor meets the wall, to let out the rear wave directly. I'll have to add a sturdy stainless steel mesh to keep out the wildlife, and add a sliding door to close off that opening to protect the back of the woofers when they're not used.
This design will then be an infinite baffle speaker. The only part I haven't accomplished is coincident acoustic source for woofer and tweeter.
That's top notch work and finish Overkill, I wish I could do some like that. (not with manger). All I have is drill and jigsaw. Anyway, I am working on copy of Marantz LS-85, trying to make it as nice as possible, but it will be far from perfect. But for me the sound is always first, looks second.
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