thinking of a master plan...
I have already started work on the project but I wanted to sketch out the larger plan in case I need to redo my plans. Hence your input is welcome.
Firstly, I will only be using the Manger OB. I wont be building the 'egg', nacelle pod, for it as you see in the commercial offers. Derek Wilson is a big fan of OB so I am heading down this path with the Manger, regardless of what happens with the bass.
I already have my active XO PCB so now I will add a power supply and put it in a box, with some RCA inputs and outputs. I have an opportunity to work with Joe Rasmussen to explore his renegade tweeter theory (as for the Elsinore) so there will be a passive crossover variant for the Manger. The bass will always be managed actively.
First baffle to complete is the OB with two ScanSpeak 25W/8565-01s. The Manger will be back from repairs in about 5 weeks. I want to listen and measure the FR curve. In parallel these Scanspeaks have the same sensitivity as the Manger which is good.
I also have the option to explore the scanspeaks in a design developed by Lynn Olson
http://www.nutshellhifi.com/ME2txt.html#goodbass As I say, I need to listen and measure (BTW anyone who has some measuring gear in Melbourne is welcome to contact me)
If this doesn't get me the sound I like, I will be putting together a bass box with the B&C 12NW76. Seems to spec out really well for the job
I have an active sub that can go to 20Hz, just in case
Derek has also recommended I go OB with a 15" woofer and 8" mid in two trapezoids sitting on each other, (Manger with the mid). So, this will be a possible final incarnation depending on time and funds.
Sonically I will be comparing with a 'traditional' 3-way, first order, sealed cabinets, time aligned, active bass. I will also compare with a tricky Alpair 10 BR design that I am also building (separate post soon!). I have the option to drive with SS, gainclone and tube but I don't want to have an unfortunate incident. The Manger costs nearly as much to fix as buy new.
I hope that's clear and practical. I welcome your comments along the way
I have already started work on the project but I wanted to sketch out the larger plan in case I need to redo my plans. Hence your input is welcome.
Firstly, I will only be using the Manger OB. I wont be building the 'egg', nacelle pod, for it as you see in the commercial offers. Derek Wilson is a big fan of OB so I am heading down this path with the Manger, regardless of what happens with the bass.
I already have my active XO PCB so now I will add a power supply and put it in a box, with some RCA inputs and outputs. I have an opportunity to work with Joe Rasmussen to explore his renegade tweeter theory (as for the Elsinore) so there will be a passive crossover variant for the Manger. The bass will always be managed actively.
First baffle to complete is the OB with two ScanSpeak 25W/8565-01s. The Manger will be back from repairs in about 5 weeks. I want to listen and measure the FR curve. In parallel these Scanspeaks have the same sensitivity as the Manger which is good.
I also have the option to explore the scanspeaks in a design developed by Lynn Olson
http://www.nutshellhifi.com/ME2txt.html#goodbass As I say, I need to listen and measure (BTW anyone who has some measuring gear in Melbourne is welcome to contact me)
If this doesn't get me the sound I like, I will be putting together a bass box with the B&C 12NW76. Seems to spec out really well for the job
I have an active sub that can go to 20Hz, just in case Derek has also recommended I go OB with a 15" woofer and 8" mid in two trapezoids sitting on each other, (Manger with the mid). So, this will be a possible final incarnation depending on time and funds.
Sonically I will be comparing with a 'traditional' 3-way, first order, sealed cabinets, time aligned, active bass. I will also compare with a tricky Alpair 10 BR design that I am also building (separate post soon!). I have the option to drive with SS, gainclone and tube but I don't want to have an unfortunate incident. The Manger costs nearly as much to fix as buy new.
I hope that's clear and practical. I welcome your comments along the way
hola all
I know it's maybe not the place because i'm more of a studio artist that want to upgrade dramatically from is dynaudio bm5a monitors.
I have to admit I reallly really like the dyns, they sound rich, flat, live etc..
After lots of research the manger msmc1 seem to be the best way to go but i just dont have the money to put on those.
I was wondering, derek or others, what would you recommend for studio use and down to like 38 hz. I don't have much place and i would like to build an easy but awesome setup
so my toughts was to build an on the wall box for the manger drivers similar to the're sidekick product coupled with one or 2 sub that i would build or buy. In this setup what crossover point do you recommend?? 110hz? 140? 110 if 1 sub, 140 if 2 sub each side?
I could also make a zerobox 109 clone but would take more space
So for a little change to your current full range projects what do you think would be the best manger studio diy setup and crossover point
for a small studio easy to make setup with a need for a flat eq response for mixing what setup would you crazy sound dudes recommend
I also thought of the berhinger digital crossover.
for the subs if i build i thought of scan-speak, belma, accusound are they what you recommend these day? what would be the best for techno music
thx for helping. I know i'm new to this, so I might need a big help from you guys.
also i might have access to demo manger driver, do you think it's safe to buy a demo?? Did they change the w05 driver model?? what is the last one?
so peace
ALex
peace
Alex
also, i would need to have
I know it's maybe not the place because i'm more of a studio artist that want to upgrade dramatically from is dynaudio bm5a monitors.
I have to admit I reallly really like the dyns, they sound rich, flat, live etc..
After lots of research the manger msmc1 seem to be the best way to go but i just dont have the money to put on those.
I was wondering, derek or others, what would you recommend for studio use and down to like 38 hz. I don't have much place and i would like to build an easy but awesome setup
so my toughts was to build an on the wall box for the manger drivers similar to the're sidekick product coupled with one or 2 sub that i would build or buy. In this setup what crossover point do you recommend?? 110hz? 140? 110 if 1 sub, 140 if 2 sub each side?
I could also make a zerobox 109 clone but would take more space
So for a little change to your current full range projects what do you think would be the best manger studio diy setup and crossover point
for a small studio easy to make setup with a need for a flat eq response for mixing what setup would you crazy sound dudes recommend
I also thought of the berhinger digital crossover.
for the subs if i build i thought of scan-speak, belma, accusound are they what you recommend these day? what would be the best for techno music
thx for helping. I know i'm new to this, so I might need a big help from you guys.
also i might have access to demo manger driver, do you think it's safe to buy a demo?? Did they change the w05 driver model?? what is the last one?
so peace
ALex
peace
Alex
also, i would need to have
Hi Alex
If you are going for studio monitor then I would take the idea from Manger as a good starting point: http://www.manger-msw.com/index.php?scope=portal&id=&pid=VeEZ8w5xxwifLMxpYlw3nzWbiXCV5SI1&language=en
MSMc1
Type
Active 2-Way System
Frequency range
30Hz - 40kHz
Crossover frequency
330Hz
Max. SPL
110dB short term
Driver
Manger sound transducer (MSW, W05, 8 Ohm) – patented broadband sound transducer with bending-flexible sandwich diaphragm, 70 mm double voice coil (0.4 g in weight) and 15 extremely powerful neodymium magnets for impulsive dynamics and concentric sound propagation (point sound source).
This is an active speaker but you could easily put together your own active speaker using a dcx and similar bass driver arrangement. In closing, the Manger definitely is the best near field speaker I have ever heard and I have been in many studios over the years.
If you are going for studio monitor then I would take the idea from Manger as a good starting point: http://www.manger-msw.com/index.php?scope=portal&id=&pid=VeEZ8w5xxwifLMxpYlw3nzWbiXCV5SI1&language=en
MSMc1
Type
Active 2-Way System
Frequency range
30Hz - 40kHz
Crossover frequency
330Hz
Max. SPL
110dB short term
Driver
Manger sound transducer (MSW, W05, 8 Ohm) – patented broadband sound transducer with bending-flexible sandwich diaphragm, 70 mm double voice coil (0.4 g in weight) and 15 extremely powerful neodymium magnets for impulsive dynamics and concentric sound propagation (point sound source).
This is an active speaker but you could easily put together your own active speaker using a dcx and similar bass driver arrangement. In closing, the Manger definitely is the best near field speaker I have ever heard and I have been in many studios over the years.
Small active Manger
In my experience the Manger must be crossed over at 300 Hz to 400Hz if you are going to get the best out of the driver.
The lowest possible crossover is 200Hz, and this must be with a very steep slope (48dB to 60dB slope) and you will still be SPL limited ie no 100dB continuous with 115dB peaks. The Manger can do these SPL 's with ultra low distortion in a properly designed system.
Basically any trace of 200Hz (or lower) frequencies forces the Manger to start "pumping " in and out like a conventional cone.
A 24dB per octave at 200Hz is useless ie there is still 150Hz at only 12dB below signal level, this is nowhere near good enough.
Passive crossovers are very bad news for many reasons (see some of my previous posts) so please allocate about 33% of your project budget to a good DSP crossover, rougly a third on drivers, a third on crossovers and a third on cabinets.
I recomend upgrading any and all mains power supplies (especially all SMPS) in your crossovers (and CD / vinyl sources) by using a Lithium Ion reachargable battery pack.
If you are looking for a compact wall mounted studio speaker I highly recomend using a sealed box bass system ie any good 10 or 12 inch high efficiency pro-driver with as big a voice coil as you can get!
Volt, Beyma, Precision Devices are some of the best in the world.
You can get killer tight bass down to 40Hz with this set up and around 45 litres internal volume for the bass ( Manger needs its own 10 litres sealed).
Good Luck!
PS After a days studio listening you can then come home and enjoy the real Manger beauty in an all open baffle set up....!!!!
In my experience the Manger must be crossed over at 300 Hz to 400Hz if you are going to get the best out of the driver.
The lowest possible crossover is 200Hz, and this must be with a very steep slope (48dB to 60dB slope) and you will still be SPL limited ie no 100dB continuous with 115dB peaks. The Manger can do these SPL 's with ultra low distortion in a properly designed system.
Basically any trace of 200Hz (or lower) frequencies forces the Manger to start "pumping " in and out like a conventional cone.
A 24dB per octave at 200Hz is useless ie there is still 150Hz at only 12dB below signal level, this is nowhere near good enough.
Passive crossovers are very bad news for many reasons (see some of my previous posts) so please allocate about 33% of your project budget to a good DSP crossover, rougly a third on drivers, a third on crossovers and a third on cabinets.
I recomend upgrading any and all mains power supplies (especially all SMPS) in your crossovers (and CD / vinyl sources) by using a Lithium Ion reachargable battery pack.
If you are looking for a compact wall mounted studio speaker I highly recomend using a sealed box bass system ie any good 10 or 12 inch high efficiency pro-driver with as big a voice coil as you can get!
Volt, Beyma, Precision Devices are some of the best in the world.
You can get killer tight bass down to 40Hz with this set up and around 45 litres internal volume for the bass ( Manger needs its own 10 litres sealed).
Good Luck!
PS After a days studio listening you can then come home and enjoy the real Manger beauty in an all open baffle set up....!!!!
Hi Derek,
Which Volt 10" did you suggest us (two drivers in OB, about 60-300hz range)? I'm thinking the BM2500, but please correct me.
--
The midrange is where we live. - Paul Klipsh
Last edited:
Sealed wall mounted bass
Hi Guy's,
The Volt BM2500.4 is a great choice, really lovely sound, low distortion, the same or slightly higher efficiency as the Manger, and built to last a lifetime of pro use.
Also right now you can pick up the 12 inch Beyma LX60 at reduced prices as Beyma are discontinuing it for some crazy reason ie its been around a few years so still cant be the best.
I Think the Beyma 12LX60 is one of the all time great drivers and I can testify to the fact that it sounds amazing in 40 litres (internal air volume, so allow for a strong 25mm MDF / Bamboo ply wood cabinet) sealed crossed over to the Manger with DEQX crossover using 48dB to 60dB linear phase filters.
Both the LX60 and the Volt 2500.4 have good 8mm to 9mm XMax so if you do need to EQ in some bass boost ( no more than 3dB or 4dB below 50 Hz ) you are still well within safe driver excursion.
One major benefit of wall / corner mounting is you get "free" low midrange upper bass lift and (with a bit of experimenting with speaker location) can enhance the low bass by working with the room nodes.
All the best
Derek.
Hi Guy's,
The Volt BM2500.4 is a great choice, really lovely sound, low distortion, the same or slightly higher efficiency as the Manger, and built to last a lifetime of pro use.
Also right now you can pick up the 12 inch Beyma LX60 at reduced prices as Beyma are discontinuing it for some crazy reason ie its been around a few years so still cant be the best.
I Think the Beyma 12LX60 is one of the all time great drivers and I can testify to the fact that it sounds amazing in 40 litres (internal air volume, so allow for a strong 25mm MDF / Bamboo ply wood cabinet) sealed crossed over to the Manger with DEQX crossover using 48dB to 60dB linear phase filters.
Both the LX60 and the Volt 2500.4 have good 8mm to 9mm XMax so if you do need to EQ in some bass boost ( no more than 3dB or 4dB below 50 Hz ) you are still well within safe driver excursion.
One major benefit of wall / corner mounting is you get "free" low midrange upper bass lift and (with a bit of experimenting with speaker location) can enhance the low bass by working with the room nodes.
All the best
Derek.
I searched for it 6 months ago and couldnt find anywhere a stock. If I did I would have taken it. So, now I'm going for a pair of Volt 10". They should be even faster
Oh very nice of you overkill and antripodean to reply.
Thx alot, i'm on the right course now
The beyma are at 299.95$us right now seem like a good deal.
How can i shield my speakers (gonna be near computer monitors)
Overkill lets say i take the beyma, could you make me a plan of the perfect box with measure and materials.
I have the zerobox plans (see jpg in attachment) would this be the best box layout?? Lets say i resize everything for a 12inch bass driver.Sound wise what would be the best way to build it. ( i know open baffle is better hehe but how to shield an open baffle hehe)
Is it a problem that my speaker on near the wall?
What DEQX do you recommend at low price. I saw a lot of people saying the behringer is nice for the price. I don't want to put too much on it at start.
What is the best amp/low cost deal for this setup would you recommend. Its for studio monitoring so it need to be very transparent. Yet the sound livelyness, richness is more important for me than a perfect flat system. Still need to be nearly perfect tho.
I have to admit i'm looking to build a studio monitoring system for a little room so the speakers can't be too far from the wall, they need to be shielded (near computer screen)
Thx alot, i'm on the right course now
The beyma are at 299.95$us right now seem like a good deal.
How can i shield my speakers (gonna be near computer monitors)
Overkill lets say i take the beyma, could you make me a plan of the perfect box with measure and materials.
I have the zerobox plans (see jpg in attachment) would this be the best box layout?? Lets say i resize everything for a 12inch bass driver.Sound wise what would be the best way to build it. ( i know open baffle is better hehe but how to shield an open baffle hehe)
Is it a problem that my speaker on near the wall?
What DEQX do you recommend at low price. I saw a lot of people saying the behringer is nice for the price. I don't want to put too much on it at start.
What is the best amp/low cost deal for this setup would you recommend. Its for studio monitoring so it need to be very transparent. Yet the sound livelyness, richness is more important for me than a perfect flat system. Still need to be nearly perfect tho.
I have to admit i'm looking to build a studio monitoring system for a little room so the speakers can't be too far from the wall, they need to be shielded (near computer screen)
Attachments
I saw that digital crossover under 1000$ sucks.
args..
Overkill would you like to play and build me the perfect shielded monitors on earth with passive crossover and all (you can measure first the perfect crossover point with your digital and all)?
You could even incorporate the perfect diy amp if you like.
EQ dip switches would be nice too hihi.
Let's say i would buy a prototype hihi
if you can build a pair of perfect shielded amped 12" driver monitors with the manger driver in the 2000-3000$ range you would just kill all the competitors on the planet and become richer than god.
(klein hummel, adam, Dynaudio, Focal, geithan)
I saw some w05 drivers demo on sales do you think it's safe to buy those. Is there multiple w05 models out there?? What model should i be sure to get?
sorry for all the questions i'm actually a electronic musician and computer programmer so I'll need a guide thru this. I'm sure it's totally worth it, if i can have the perfect monitors at the end at a reasonable price.
The Msmc1 cost so much hehe.
And overkill do you think the holoprofil is overkill hehe?
I guess if i used my speakers in parties it would be necessary but for the studio i stay in the sweet spot most of the time.
args..
Overkill would you like to play and build me the perfect shielded monitors on earth with passive crossover and all (you can measure first the perfect crossover point with your digital and all)?
You could even incorporate the perfect diy amp if you like.
EQ dip switches would be nice too hihi.
Let's say i would buy a prototype hihi
if you can build a pair of perfect shielded amped 12" driver monitors with the manger driver in the 2000-3000$ range you would just kill all the competitors on the planet and become richer than god.
(klein hummel, adam, Dynaudio, Focal, geithan)
I saw some w05 drivers demo on sales do you think it's safe to buy those. Is there multiple w05 models out there?? What model should i be sure to get?
sorry for all the questions i'm actually a electronic musician and computer programmer so I'll need a guide thru this. I'm sure it's totally worth it, if i can have the perfect monitors at the end at a reasonable price.
The Msmc1 cost so much hehe.
And overkill do you think the holoprofil is overkill hehe?
I guess if i used my speakers in parties it would be necessary but for the studio i stay in the sweet spot most of the time.
By the way hihi you can say no , I totally understand that your playing with your own toys right now
Let's say I go for a berhinger ultradrive crossover, I would need to change the power supply + what other component to make it good enough?
What about an awesome 8" driver with tower cabinet instead of big 12" will it do the same?? Do you think it would be harder to to flat out the eq of the sub basses???
for the cabinet what is your recommended damping
one guy said
Using an inner core of 3/4 MDF and 3/4 Ply on the outside makes for a very well damped box.
is this the way you recommend?
Let's say I go for a berhinger ultradrive crossover, I would need to change the power supply + what other component to make it good enough?
What about an awesome 8" driver with tower cabinet instead of big 12" will it do the same?? Do you think it would be harder to to flat out the eq of the sub basses???
for the cabinet what is your recommended damping
one guy said
Using an inner core of 3/4 MDF and 3/4 Ply on the outside makes for a very well damped box.
is this the way you recommend?
Hi Alex,
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you but I really have no DIY audio time at the moment, even my pet project " Rainforest Audio " is delayed until the spring 2010.
So I cant design your studio monitor this year but there are lots of very good studio guys on this site, Stig Erik is really one of the best, he has not been initiated into the MSS (Manger Secret Society...!) but he is expert with the next best thing ie the Beyma TPL driver plus Volt 2500.4 or AE TD 12M or 15M drivers.
The Manger plus Volt 2500.4 or the Beyma 12LX60 crossed over at 300Hz to 400Hz will be better than a TPL plus bass / mid crossed over at around 1.5KHz to 2KHz.
Nearfield monitors are great on or close to walls, you actually gain low mid and bass energy that you can EQ if required, also ask Stig Erik and others about wall treatment.
On the cabinets go for around 50 litres internal volume for the bass and around 10 litres for the Manger.
Bass cab must be very strong and non-resonant. Try 25mm MDF with one or two layers of 3mm hardboard internal lining (use water based PVA wood glue and allow at least 7 days in a warm, not hot, low humidity room to dry) and finish with a layer of 8mm under floor board ie the soft green fibre board used as underlay for hardwood flooring.
The Manger cabinet is a mini version of the above but add in some loft insulation (fibreglass in protective cloth) to give about 50% filling.
Generally try to avoid internal parallel walls ie a square is the worst shape, truncated pyramid (Trapezoid) is very good, teardrop / egg is best.
Even a low cost Behringer is better than any mega buck designer parts passive, see some of my other posts.
The SMPS can all be easily replaced by a rechargable Lithium Ion battery pack and there are lots of good low cost mods to replace the Op Amp output stages with some good discrete parts. Dont go crazy on the Behringer as they have a "glass celing" and will never be as good as a DEQX with external DAC's. The new 32 bit ESS DAC's are amazing and again can be tweaked with output mods.
The new Hypex DSP /active power amp packs are looking very good on paper, maybe worth buying and testing.
If you use LCD or plasma / OLED or LED (Sanyo) computer screens you dont need shielding.
Please remember computers and most studio gear are full of Switch Mode Power Supplies....they are a nightmare for audio use and will be sending massive pollution into your mains and therefore into your audio gear.
A great upgrade is to get all your source, mics, preamps power amps and crossovers converted to battery supply. This is huge and will make a bigger difference in most studios than a upgrade from $500 power amps to $5,000 power amps, really I have heard this for myself.
So there you go lots to keep you busy building and lots for the armchair / "slag everything build nothing" brigade to get thier teeth into....!!
All the best
Derek.
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you but I really have no DIY audio time at the moment, even my pet project " Rainforest Audio " is delayed until the spring 2010.
So I cant design your studio monitor this year but there are lots of very good studio guys on this site, Stig Erik is really one of the best, he has not been initiated into the MSS (Manger Secret Society...!) but he is expert with the next best thing ie the Beyma TPL driver plus Volt 2500.4 or AE TD 12M or 15M drivers.
The Manger plus Volt 2500.4 or the Beyma 12LX60 crossed over at 300Hz to 400Hz will be better than a TPL plus bass / mid crossed over at around 1.5KHz to 2KHz.
Nearfield monitors are great on or close to walls, you actually gain low mid and bass energy that you can EQ if required, also ask Stig Erik and others about wall treatment.
On the cabinets go for around 50 litres internal volume for the bass and around 10 litres for the Manger.
Bass cab must be very strong and non-resonant. Try 25mm MDF with one or two layers of 3mm hardboard internal lining (use water based PVA wood glue and allow at least 7 days in a warm, not hot, low humidity room to dry) and finish with a layer of 8mm under floor board ie the soft green fibre board used as underlay for hardwood flooring.
The Manger cabinet is a mini version of the above but add in some loft insulation (fibreglass in protective cloth) to give about 50% filling.
Generally try to avoid internal parallel walls ie a square is the worst shape, truncated pyramid (Trapezoid) is very good, teardrop / egg is best.
Even a low cost Behringer is better than any mega buck designer parts passive, see some of my other posts.
The SMPS can all be easily replaced by a rechargable Lithium Ion battery pack and there are lots of good low cost mods to replace the Op Amp output stages with some good discrete parts. Dont go crazy on the Behringer as they have a "glass celing" and will never be as good as a DEQX with external DAC's. The new 32 bit ESS DAC's are amazing and again can be tweaked with output mods.
The new Hypex DSP /active power amp packs are looking very good on paper, maybe worth buying and testing.
If you use LCD or plasma / OLED or LED (Sanyo) computer screens you dont need shielding.
Please remember computers and most studio gear are full of Switch Mode Power Supplies....they are a nightmare for audio use and will be sending massive pollution into your mains and therefore into your audio gear.
A great upgrade is to get all your source, mics, preamps power amps and crossovers converted to battery supply. This is huge and will make a bigger difference in most studios than a upgrade from $500 power amps to $5,000 power amps, really I have heard this for myself.
So there you go lots to keep you busy building and lots for the armchair / "slag everything build nothing" brigade to get thier teeth into....!!
All the best
Derek.
P.S. Seperate the bass cab and Manger cab with a 1mm thick sheet of "Sorbothane" - very important! Also this will allow you to time align the drivers.
Use some black piano felt to cover the front baffle and wrap around the sides.
If wall mounting ensure you pad the wall behind the speaker to avoid any rattles and vibration.
Avoid sharp edges on all cabinets, very large radius smoothing into the wall is best. Great low cost tip here- use hardboard and polystyrene blocks / coving to make a giant "picture frame" which has gentle slope or curve into meet the wall. They can be painted or felt covered for finishing, they sound and measure instant upgrade for $100 all in!!
Use some black piano felt to cover the front baffle and wrap around the sides.
If wall mounting ensure you pad the wall behind the speaker to avoid any rattles and vibration.
Avoid sharp edges on all cabinets, very large radius smoothing into the wall is best. Great low cost tip here- use hardboard and polystyrene blocks / coving to make a giant "picture frame" which has gentle slope or curve into meet the wall. They can be painted or felt covered for finishing, they sound and measure instant upgrade for $100 all in!!
I had a look at the data-sheet of the Beyma driver. That's one impressive driver for the money I must admit ! Unfortunately it isn't that easy to get nowadays since it isn't manufactured anymore.
One could easily achieve a tuning around 60Hz with a Q of 0.5 approx. Since it has quite good efficiency the response could be easily extended lower by EQing.
I use some very similar principle with a custom built 8" AT driver. The advantage of the AT driver is that the box is much more compact. But the Beyma is only half as expensive and moves at least twice the amount of air.
Regards
Charles
One could easily achieve a tuning around 60Hz with a Q of 0.5 approx. Since it has quite good efficiency the response could be easily extended lower by EQing.
I use some very similar principle with a custom built 8" AT driver. The advantage of the AT driver is that the box is much more compact. But the Beyma is only half as expensive and moves at least twice the amount of air.
Regards
Charles
Hi Charles,
Yes the Beyma 12 LX60 was sweet...RIP!
The 10 inch 2500.4 Volt and its more efficient Pro version the 2500.5 ( very confusing titles!) are very good but over 50% more expensive.
I am struggling with the dimensions of a front loaded horn for the Manger driver, I need it to cover 300hz up to the 25KHz limit. Martin King is too busy with other projects to be able to help right now, can you recomend someone who can help me?
Thanks
Derek.
Yes the Beyma 12 LX60 was sweet...RIP!
The 10 inch 2500.4 Volt and its more efficient Pro version the 2500.5 ( very confusing titles!) are very good but over 50% more expensive.
I am struggling with the dimensions of a front loaded horn for the Manger driver, I need it to cover 300hz up to the 25KHz limit. Martin King is too busy with other projects to be able to help right now, can you recomend someone who can help me?
Thanks
Derek.
There are people here who already tried this. Maybe one could even find them with the search function.
I don't know how a horn would cope with the fact that the Manger's radiating surface decreases with frequency. Maybe some conical waveguide that the driver doesn't "see" due to its beaming could work .
Regards
Charles
I don't know how a horn would cope with the fact that the Manger's radiating surface decreases with frequency. Maybe some conical waveguide that the driver doesn't "see" due to its beaming could work .
Regards
Charles
Hi Charles,
Interesting idea.
I believe that if the Manger can be mated to the right profile horn and the horn is made from the "right" material it could form the heart of a dream system.
Martin King gets 12dB horn gain with his simulations using an exponential horn on Lowther and Fostex 8 inch full range drivers.
If a Manger horn can boost the 91dB raw driver efficiency to around 97dB or 98dB it could be game over!
As the Manger is fundamentally different from all conventional drivers most simulations and TS based assumptions are going to be a waste of time.
I think this is one project where building many prototypes is the best way forward.
I have been looking at very high efficiency 12 inch and 15 inch drivers suitable to cover the 30Hz to 400Hz band to mate with the "dream team" Manger & horn.
There are some interesting drivers around but I think a small custom run of 20 pairs might be required. I would be happy to fund the drivers if the right horn for the Manger can be designed.
Anyone interested....?!
Already been PMailed by one guy who has done some great work on the Manger horn, the more people and ideas the better.
Cheers
Derek.
Interesting idea.
I believe that if the Manger can be mated to the right profile horn and the horn is made from the "right" material it could form the heart of a dream system.
Martin King gets 12dB horn gain with his simulations using an exponential horn on Lowther and Fostex 8 inch full range drivers.
If a Manger horn can boost the 91dB raw driver efficiency to around 97dB or 98dB it could be game over!
As the Manger is fundamentally different from all conventional drivers most simulations and TS based assumptions are going to be a waste of time.
I think this is one project where building many prototypes is the best way forward.
I have been looking at very high efficiency 12 inch and 15 inch drivers suitable to cover the 30Hz to 400Hz band to mate with the "dream team" Manger & horn.
There are some interesting drivers around but I think a small custom run of 20 pairs might be required. I would be happy to fund the drivers if the right horn for the Manger can be designed.
Anyone interested....?!
Already been PMailed by one guy who has done some great work on the Manger horn, the more people and ideas the better.
Cheers
Derek.
12LW1400 and 12NLW9300 by eighteensound look nice as well. They are not as linear as the Beyma 12LX60 but still reasonably flat. Keep in mind that eighteensound measures their drivers in a small box with a typical alignment. I.e. the measuremts include some baffle step already.
BTW I also like their 12" coaxial, although it's Qts is a little lowish for being used in a closed box with EQing.
Regards
Charles
BTW I also like their 12" coaxial, although it's Qts is a little lowish for being used in a closed box with EQing.
Regards
Charles
I am looking for this test review in German:
Exoten unter sich: Manger Zerobox 105 und E.J. Jordan Exponentialhorn
published in the magazine Klang & Ton from April 1994.
Attached images are to find in post #24 under
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pla...68-taking-manger-msw-apart-3.html#post6762626
This images show the TOC so as the cover of this edition.
Maybe one of the member can upload this - thank you very much.
Exoten unter sich: Manger Zerobox 105 und E.J. Jordan Exponentialhorn
published in the magazine Klang & Ton from April 1994.
Attached images are to find in post #24 under
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pla...68-taking-manger-msw-apart-3.html#post6762626
This images show the TOC so as the cover of this edition.
Maybe one of the member can upload this - thank you very much.