I used an LM833 in a Bainter notch filter and it badly oscillated. I replaced it with another sample, same behaviour. A NE5532, a JRC 4560 or an MC1458 did not show this problem. The LM833's were used in subsequent Sallen & Key 12 dB/o filters and worked ok. As I want to rely on secure parts only, I prefer not to use LM833's if I have other devices at hand. I have not understood why this op-amp which has a very classic scheme and should have a large phase margin was unstable within the Bainter's circuit.
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What I ment was that LM833 is decent so why not use it if you already have it but you have also newer types you might consider.
My answer is based on "normal" demands. If you have golden ears LM833 really
nothing will be good enough. LM833 has similarities with the famous NE5534 which isn't as bad as some people claims.
My answer is based on "normal" demands. If you have golden ears LM833 really
nothing will be good enough. LM833 has similarities with the famous NE5534 which isn't as bad as some people claims.
LM833 is fine for you aplication.
Do as peranders said and make sure you bypass the chip correctly. I would use something like a 47uf low ESR lytic with a 100nf film cap on each rail.
On input I would use 100K from input to GND and 1-2.2uf MKP for the input cap. It is always most safe to use the input cap, but if you are sure you will only use sources with no DC offset at the output then omiting the input cap will give you the best result (lower distotion).
Have fun!
Russ
Do as peranders said and make sure you bypass the chip correctly. I would use something like a 47uf low ESR lytic with a 100nf film cap on each rail.
On input I would use 100K from input to GND and 1-2.2uf MKP for the input cap. It is always most safe to use the input cap, but if you are sure you will only use sources with no DC offset at the output then omiting the input cap will give you the best result (lower distotion).
Have fun!
Russ
Just 2 days ago it so happened I was servicing my first CD player (bought in 1987). A Denon DCD 1400. It sill plays ok, but I cleaned it and changed its pickup with a nos one I had bought years ago and kept as a spare. It had JRC 4580D opamps as I/V and buffer originals. I thought of playing around a bit. I fitted chip bases and listened to various substitutions. 5532, 2604, 2134. Oh, nothing sounded musical enough. Then I saw a couple of LM833 in my inventory. I recalled that they were favorites of mine among cheap ones but I did not use them in a preamp when I was testing out, back in 1990, because they exibited enough offset. But here the outputs are ac coupled! So I fitted them. Well, here it is again! The most musical outcome from using a cheap op amp! Nice encompassing sound with far more, but easy detail than the others. Tonality is superb without that midbass heavey B.B. sound. Second best was 5532 with good detail but thiner presence. The noise of LM833 proved as good as with 5532 also. The LM833s stayed in there and I grin each time I check a cd wearing my Grados. The old chick got a facelift and she's still kicking 
It's nice when you don't have to go the most expensive route to get what you want...
Last week I took my Pioneer 6x9 speakers out of my car and put them in boxes made from wood I got for free.
End result is speakers that sound 50x better than the 3w speakers I got from my dad.
I still need to sand and spray them though.
Thanks for the input...
Time to go home. I'm gonna try and work on the schem 2night.
Last week I took my Pioneer 6x9 speakers out of my car and put them in boxes made from wood I got for free.
End result is speakers that sound 50x better than the 3w speakers I got from my dad.
I still need to sand and spray them though.
Thanks for the input...
Time to go home. I'm gonna try and work on the schem 2night.
Wynand said:
The LM833 doesn't sound so good... others, when correcly used, will sound much better. Even an NE5532 sounds better than an LM833.
The problem is trying op-amps on a bad circuit, the good ones will not work.
Anyway, does it have to be an op-amp?
It can't get much simpler than this:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nuukspot/decdun/gainclonepre2.html
I use LM833 for almost all my audio stuff because it provides good performance at a low price, and my budget is always low. It may oscillate in poor layouts because it has quite high slew rate and unity-gain bandwidth. I have never had any hard to solve oscillation issue with that device, though.
I've also tried a LM833 against a NE5532 driving 180 meters of twisted pair shielded cable with an electronically balanced output configuration. Both performed nearly the same, while other low-cost devices like TL071, LM358, RC4558 were just not capable of putting any recognisable high frequency square wave through the cable.
P.S. Those of you who have enough budget and like exotic devices can just ignore my post and continue buying $20 op-amps.
I've also tried a LM833 against a NE5532 driving 180 meters of twisted pair shielded cable with an electronically balanced output configuration. Both performed nearly the same, while other low-cost devices like TL071, LM358, RC4558 were just not capable of putting any recognisable high frequency square wave through the cable.
P.S. Those of you who have enough budget and like exotic devices can just ignore my post and continue buying $20 op-amps.
Russ White said:Now it may not be good enough for Carlos, but thats just another good reason to try it.
What reason?
What do you mean?
Please clarify yourself.
I have tried the LM833 on a phono preamp (after correctly bypassing) and didn't like it.
On that circuit an NE5532 sounded better, and an OPA2132 even better.
On the output stage of a CDP, the same: after dealing with the PSU layout and decoupling, the original LM833 was easily bettered.
I suppose we are talking about audio, so driving hundreds of meters of cable doesn't say much.
My experience. Take it or leave it.
PS: 7V/us is not exactly high slew rate...
Hmmm, look what I have found in head-fi forum, it worked for my Denon too:
09-20-2003, 11:55 AM
Amp/CDP Builders + Modifiers: LM833 opamp results
Believe it or not, we've come across a jewel.
My brother has a Marantz CD-67SE, and up till now has had a Burr Brown opamp in place of the JRC(yuck). It has always had a "glarey" sound to it, very sharp. We received some free samples from AD and a few more from BB, tested each one. The AD chips sounded great, except they were still sharp. Vocals seemed a little too polished, but at the least the upper mids weren't boosted like with the BBs.
We looked around, and the only other opamp we had around was a National LM833. Checked out the schematic for it, very simple design. These are generic, cheap-o opamps. We plugged it in, and the results are pretty unbelievable. The sound took on a new level of detail, and no frequency range is in bias. Everything is balanced just right, the sound has taken on a full, fat, and lively sound. Amazing!
I highly recommend everyone try out this opamp, I'm curious to see how it reacts in different applications. Besides, they're dirt cheap!
09-20-2003, 11:55 AM
Amp/CDP Builders + Modifiers: LM833 opamp results
Believe it or not, we've come across a jewel.
My brother has a Marantz CD-67SE, and up till now has had a Burr Brown opamp in place of the JRC(yuck). It has always had a "glarey" sound to it, very sharp. We received some free samples from AD and a few more from BB, tested each one. The AD chips sounded great, except they were still sharp. Vocals seemed a little too polished, but at the least the upper mids weren't boosted like with the BBs.
We looked around, and the only other opamp we had around was a National LM833. Checked out the schematic for it, very simple design. These are generic, cheap-o opamps. We plugged it in, and the results are pretty unbelievable. The sound took on a new level of detail, and no frequency range is in bias. Everything is balanced just right, the sound has taken on a full, fat, and lively sound. Amazing!
I highly recommend everyone try out this opamp, I'm curious to see how it reacts in different applications. Besides, they're dirt cheap!
Carlos,
What I mean is it is very likely since so many have different opinions of the chip than you do, that he just may too. And I think he might like trying it out (it is fun), even if in the end he finds something he likes better. One should never read too much into others personal opinions, but consensus does help resolve ambiguities.
So go ahead Wynand,
If you are inclined then try the LM833, RC4560,OPA2227,AD8620, and whatever else you can find. Just use a DIP socket and try whatever you can find, it will be a lot of fun. You will learn more that way then being told what is "good" or "bad". Once you get your feet wet you will be able to make your own subjective judgements, which is great, you after all are the most qualified!
Cheers,
Russ!
What I mean is it is very likely since so many have different opinions of the chip than you do, that he just may too. And I think he might like trying it out (it is fun), even if in the end he finds something he likes better. One should never read too much into others personal opinions, but consensus does help resolve ambiguities.
So go ahead Wynand,
If you are inclined then try the LM833, RC4560,OPA2227,AD8620, and whatever else you can find. Just use a DIP socket and try whatever you can find, it will be a lot of fun.
You will learn more that way then being told what is "good" or "bad". Once you get your feet wet you will be able to make your own subjective judgements, which is great, you after all are the most qualified!Cheers,
Russ!
You guys like to put sockets and play with op-amps.
That's nice, but you can then have better results with the slower ones, if you don't solve the rest of the problems.
Your conclusions will be very wrong, if you are playing with op-amps thinking they are all dop-in replacements just because they have the same pinout (!) and you don't correct the serious mistakes and miserable layouts.
A good example: the Arcam CD7 SE cd player:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=781074&highlight=#post781074
Go on and just put a pair of sockets and play with op-amps.
You will prefer the very worst sounding op-amps.
The ones that just work.
That's nice, but you can then have better results with the slower ones, if you don't solve the rest of the problems.
Your conclusions will be very wrong, if you are playing with op-amps thinking they are all dop-in replacements just because they have the same pinout (!) and you don't correct the serious mistakes and miserable layouts.
A good example: the Arcam CD7 SE cd player:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=781074&highlight=#post781074
Go on and just put a pair of sockets and play with op-amps.
You will prefer the very worst sounding op-amps.
The ones that just work.
Its simple, op amps sound as they do in combination with everything else that plays a role in a machine. It just happens that LM833 can sound good too as some of us have experienced.
We better classify them op amps in broader families of alikes and have an inventory so to swap and see each time we tweak something. To me LM833 proved good in simple line gain tests and in my old Denon. To that guy (aphex944) from Head-Fi in his bro's 67se proved even awesome, to another maybe proved bad. For sure, LM833 has a simple circuit inside and that can't be too bad. Another thing is the maker. Mine are humble ST copies. What make are yours Carlos?
We better classify them op amps in broader families of alikes and have an inventory so to swap and see each time we tweak something. To me LM833 proved good in simple line gain tests and in my old Denon. To that guy (aphex944) from Head-Fi in his bro's 67se proved even awesome, to another maybe proved bad. For sure, LM833 has a simple circuit inside and that can't be too bad. Another thing is the maker. Mine are humble ST copies. What make are yours Carlos?
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