There are not made much equipment that have low enough jitter / noise og good enough linearity to enable the full potential of the higher bit rates or bit depths.
Normally jitter / noise and linearity get worse as bit rate and bit depth increases..
Let me help You get it right.
I'm not intrested in the quality war between integrated audio codecs and addon cards and usb external codecs.
The test would be intresting as:
if the integrated codec is used as DAC, then only the OS would be different.
linux audio, says the topic title. I -for no reason as i personaly never did test- think it would be identical quality.
The test would aim to make sure identical hardware is used --actualy the verry same hardware as it is, with the same playback software except compiled for windows/ linux whatever OS is on test--.
Using an external /usb /whatever DAC would show if the digital output of the computer would show any difference just because of using a different OS.
So as You can see the quaetion of external DAC vs integrated codec vs add-on card quality actualy does not mather.
I personaly see no reason for a computer to provide better sound quality when using linux vs windows.
claims without the tests i mentioned are just claims.
see the tipical "special spekaer wire" vs "coathanger" or.. cap A vs cap B type of argument. Mesurements, they can proove.
If the difference is less than what a human could ever notice, then the argument of linux vs linux audio is pointless.
Hehe good news : we are moving from opinions to tests (;-). We are missing events to compete on digital audio.
One more thing if I may : analyse the Linux / windows only though easiness of use is not very relevant on this forum : people who ask for easy things listen to mp3 on iPxxxs with iTunes and probably wont come here. I am not a geek myself and honestly spent more time seting files and printer shares on my XP server with no help from microsoft or trying to understand windows 8.0 or trying to use Foobar than seting up mpdpup with the kind support of it's developper and forum users (;-) . IMHO Apps are not good mostly because of the OS but because of the skills of the developper.
One more thing if I may : analyse the Linux / windows only though easiness of use is not very relevant on this forum : people who ask for easy things listen to mp3 on iPxxxs with iTunes and probably wont come here. I am not a geek myself and honestly spent more time seting files and printer shares on my XP server with no help from microsoft or trying to understand windows 8.0 or trying to use Foobar than seting up mpdpup with the kind support of it's developper and forum users (;-) . IMHO Apps are not good mostly because of the OS but because of the skills of the developper.
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Hi Arty,
Thank you for your comments.
The essence of my measurements were to indicate, that contemporary PC audio has undergone so much improvement, that it's pointless to argue Windows vs. Linux quality.
I agree with your statement, and this whole argument is "bizzare" - and this is a compliment. More so, when people contributing to this thread only express opinions - without supporting measurements.
Best Regards,
Bohdan
Some good discussion here. I was going to weigh in on the SPDIF comments, and i thought to myself its like Neil Youngs stage setup where he has a tiny fender amp deliberately overloading and distorting, but the overall sound is pretty clear. much is the same with SPDIF . Sadly because of SPDIF's acceptance its being quoted as a near distortion free format- when this is far from the truth if sound is important, Its really not a good digital transfer mechanism, it was born to make the same level of convenience as using a washing machine. see my article originally printed in Electronics World.
The Deficiencies of SPDIF as a Digital Transmission Method
Where development should head is in companding to achieve better dynamic range. DBX were with their type 1 processors on the right path. Type 1 by the way is very applicable to CD reproduction and i have discussed at length on other posts the use of hard disk recorders that in the case of the yamaha CDR1500 use wav- but it would be good to hear a flac yamaha.
A good foundation aside from the GUI abilities of Linux vs Windows thats easy to get lost in rather than discussing sound, is to ratify if consensus could be reached whether ogg a codec developed by the Xiph foundation and working closely with the Linux community sounds better than MP3 developed on the dark side. One thing linux will always be better at is allowing everyone to contribute to development where the source code is shared and made available..
One could go on with wav vs flac, and I have to say wav is pretty good. But for most people ogg is I consider pretty faithful and very worthy of consideration to store large collections of music.
Cheers / Chris
The Deficiencies of SPDIF as a Digital Transmission Method
Where development should head is in companding to achieve better dynamic range. DBX were with their type 1 processors on the right path. Type 1 by the way is very applicable to CD reproduction and i have discussed at length on other posts the use of hard disk recorders that in the case of the yamaha CDR1500 use wav- but it would be good to hear a flac yamaha.
A good foundation aside from the GUI abilities of Linux vs Windows thats easy to get lost in rather than discussing sound, is to ratify if consensus could be reached whether ogg a codec developed by the Xiph foundation and working closely with the Linux community sounds better than MP3 developed on the dark side. One thing linux will always be better at is allowing everyone to contribute to development where the source code is shared and made available..
One could go on with wav vs flac, and I have to say wav is pretty good. But for most people ogg is I consider pretty faithful and very worthy of consideration to store large collections of music.
Cheers / Chris
With the advent of super large, relatively inexpensive HDs over the past few years,(> 2 TBs), the need for any kind of compression seems a moot point. Except for portable players. I much prefer playing back the original .wav file from my NAS box, but well ripped mp3s sound very good too.
this will be absolute off topic...
well, bohdan1232000 ,
the thing is i'm sceptic by defaul when it comes to linux.
I did try it, centos and fedora where quite usable.
but it allways feeels like if it was early beta only.
sure, its well made and its soo mutch better in every aspect,
except that despite its free for home users, it holds only a small %
of home computer OS market. and there are pretty good reasons for that.
I see claims of linux machine being faster better whatever...
in my own experience equiped with similar functionality that you get out of the box
with windows, its pretty mutch the same performance.
I actualy for one did not see a reason for the exsistance of linux.
sortha like a left handed hammer vs right handed hammer.
I'm actually not a windows fanboy at all.
but actualy i don't have a problem with it.
i see people complain about windows as unstable and stuff.
well, had not reinstalled windows for over a half decade.
did only re-install whn i moved to win7.
so mutch for that.
drivers are no issue at all, while even up to last year no linux distro
managed to support RLT8139D lan chip i have in my dedicated linux testing computer.
I don't have a real problem with linux eighter, just fail to see why would it be etter for the home user. I understand its a better suited server than what m$ can offer.
for big corporations, that it. but for the home user?
nah.. no need.
so what do i support if i'm not a linux or windows fanboy?
OSX!
nope, that was just a joke. it is still just *nix.
I support reactos.
Check it out.
ReactOS Project
that i do actively support.
eh.. sorrry for the offtopic. its nearly midnight, end of the week, and i dunno.
just wanted to write this somewhere.
well, bohdan1232000 ,
the thing is i'm sceptic by defaul when it comes to linux.
I did try it, centos and fedora where quite usable.
but it allways feeels like if it was early beta only.
sure, its well made and its soo mutch better in every aspect,
except that despite its free for home users, it holds only a small %
of home computer OS market. and there are pretty good reasons for that.
I see claims of linux machine being faster better whatever...
in my own experience equiped with similar functionality that you get out of the box
with windows, its pretty mutch the same performance.
I actualy for one did not see a reason for the exsistance of linux.
sortha like a left handed hammer vs right handed hammer.
I'm actually not a windows fanboy at all.
but actualy i don't have a problem with it.
i see people complain about windows as unstable and stuff.
well, had not reinstalled windows for over a half decade.
did only re-install whn i moved to win7.
so mutch for that.
drivers are no issue at all, while even up to last year no linux distro
managed to support RLT8139D lan chip i have in my dedicated linux testing computer.
I don't have a real problem with linux eighter, just fail to see why would it be etter for the home user. I understand its a better suited server than what m$ can offer.
for big corporations, that it. but for the home user?
nah.. no need.
so what do i support if i'm not a linux or windows fanboy?
OSX!
nope, that was just a joke. it is still just *nix.
I support reactos.
Check it out.
ReactOS Project
that i do actively support.
eh.. sorrry for the offtopic. its nearly midnight, end of the week, and i dunno.
just wanted to write this somewhere.
Hello everybody
My real name is Philipp and i am the guy behind the Server 2012 "Trend". Server 2012 offers the possibilty to remove the GUI. You will end up with about 15 processses, on of it beeing the kernel itself
I have tried all existing windows versions and some linux systems as well, but i never had such an analog and lifelike sounding experience than with server 2012 in core mode. Because of that i started to develop a software to further optimize and tweak the OS, CPU parameters, memory management, ressource scheduling, filesystem and much more to change the primary focus on pure music reproduction. The results are simply amazing, but please read for yourself -> Highend-AudioPC.com | Reviews
If you want to know a bit more in detail what my software does, i've put some information together here: Highend-AudioPC.com | Optimizer
Feel free to mail or PM me if you have any questions
Regards,
AudioPhil
I'm lazy and haven't read your refs. So does your optimizer do for Windows server what jplay claims to do for Windows? How many people do you expect to stop using Windows and start using Windows server to make use of your work?
15 processes is quit low, does that include any remote console access or remote file mounting? On the other hand, a net install of Debian 7 (wheezy) with just the base and an ssh server has a very small footprint. Install logitech media server and that's about 23 processess in total running in about 130MB of memory. Seems like a pretty good starting point to me.
15 processes is quit low, does that include any remote console access or remote file mounting? On the other hand, a net install of Debian 7 (wheezy) with just the base and an ssh server has a very small footprint. Install logitech media server and that's about 23 processess in total running in about 130MB of memory. Seems like a pretty good starting point to me.
Hello everybody
Having only few processes or taska is only part of the secret. This does not make the good sound, it's more for having a stable plattform without any spikes. What really makes a difference in sound quality are other settings. Most impact have settings how the OS priorizes the ressources, or what kind of energy schemes are used, a lot of settings of the CPU.
I did not make any estimations so far how many people will change to server OS. But i know how many did since i am offering my software. I think a 3-digit value isn't that bad for a period of about 6 weeks or so
you will have to hear for yourself to understand what all the hype about server 2012 and my optimizer is about.
Having only few processes or taska is only part of the secret. This does not make the good sound, it's more for having a stable plattform without any spikes. What really makes a difference in sound quality are other settings. Most impact have settings how the OS priorizes the ressources, or what kind of energy schemes are used, a lot of settings of the CPU.
I did not make any estimations so far how many people will change to server OS. But i know how many did since i am offering my software. I think a 3-digit value isn't that bad for a period of about 6 weeks or so
you will have to hear for yourself to understand what all the hype about server 2012 and my optimizer is about.
Gk7, You are right, it's a man made machine with no spikes. But the same is unfortunately not true for an operating system. Operating systems where not built with audio reproduction in mind, and this is exactly where my optimizer does it's work. An unoptimized operating system does hundrets if not thousands of things in the background you did not order nor you know about. Then you have all kind of energy saving features which are absolutely ruining the sound, especially those regarding the CPU and memory management, foreground/background boost, and many many more.
I read the rules and if i am not misstaken, it is OK the discuss about existing topics. I did not start a new "marketing" thread nor do i force anybody to do anything. I just wanted to sign that i am here and ready to answer questions if there are some.
Phofman, right you are as well. I am an IT-Specialist with about 20 years on the job experience, and i can tell you that my software has about 3000 lines of code ate the moment. So yes, there are a lot of "secrets" which change how a computer audio system sounds. Some more, some less...
Most audiophiles are into music, and not into computers. But computer audio is the future, that is for sure. And that's why it's handy to have a fanatic audiphile like me who has the needed knowledge to change how an operating system works.
I read the rules and if i am not misstaken, it is OK the discuss about existing topics. I did not start a new "marketing" thread nor do i force anybody to do anything. I just wanted to sign that i am here and ready to answer questions if there are some.
Phofman, right you are as well. I am an IT-Specialist with about 20 years on the job experience, and i can tell you that my software has about 3000 lines of code ate the moment. So yes, there are a lot of "secrets" which change how a computer audio system sounds. Some more, some less...
Most audiophiles are into music, and not into computers. But computer audio is the future, that is for sure. And that's why it's handy to have a fanatic audiphile like me who has the needed knowledge to change how an operating system works.
It works among people succeptible to hype in general, not just in the windows world.
Luckily I don't need an "IT-Specialist with about 20 years" to optimise my OS, as my unoptimized Debian 7 install doesn't do thousands or even hundreds of things in the background. And of course I have the choice of installing a desktop environment or not without having to jump through hoops to get rid of an wanted GUI. Linux seems to manage memory pretty well without intervention. Of course, the paranoid have the choice of running a Linux version that allows booting to RAM if you really think some kind of special memory management is necessary to improve the SQ of audio playback.
As to the power management ruining SQ, I'm happy to have my system automatically lower CPU frequency and operating voltage. The processing needs of audio playback are pretty low and it's pointless to run the CPU at max when not needed. In any case, there are BIOS settings that influence power management and I don't imagine your software has any affect here.
As to the power management ruining SQ, I'm happy to have my system automatically lower CPU frequency and operating voltage. The processing needs of audio playback are pretty low and it's pointless to run the CPU at max when not needed. In any case, there are BIOS settings that influence power management and I don't imagine your software has any affect here.
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