I have miniDSPs in the signal chain to my L/R/C/Subs. They are very revealing. I prefer them to passive crossovers. I also agree that lots of power is better than not enough. I doubt I could tell the difference between different op-amps except for, perhaps, with my Sennheiser HD600s connected to my ASUS XONAR Essence STX. But I actually prefer the sound of my speakers now. When transistor amps were first marketed they sounded awful to me (and they were with their massive amounts of "crossover/switching distortion"). This changed over just a few years though. I think that those who like the distortion qualities of a certain amp are perfectly right in preferring it. Coloration is perfectly ok for anyone who likes it and I think that we all have our preferences. Take Nelson Pass for example. The coloration his amps introduce is loved by many.
Frankly I do not see how the type of xover slope would make any difference to the bass response up to say 300Hz when the actual xover point is a good two octaves above that.
I also fail to see how it matters if the inductor is ferrite cored or not when I listen at around 95dBSPL using a speaker capable of >120dBSPL. Pretty sure it didn't saturate at my listening levels if it actually is ferrite cored. Either way the xover is not particularly visible, I just bypassed it which was easy to do without touching it (ie remove internal from the posts and replace them with the bypass leads kindly supplied by Tannoy) so I can't really tell you.
I also fail to see how it matters if the inductor is ferrite cored or not when I listen at around 95dBSPL using a speaker capable of >120dBSPL. Pretty sure it didn't saturate at my listening levels if it actually is ferrite cored. Either way the xover is not particularly visible, I just bypassed it which was easy to do without touching it (ie remove internal from the posts and replace them with the bypass leads kindly supplied by Tannoy) so I can't really tell you.
I didn't set out to compare op amps but I did add a two separate woofers and supertweeters to my speakers so I needed an additional xovers (they operate two stereo or 3/4way mono) which I bought s/h.
I was very much struggling to balance left and right for a while. When I eventually did open both of them up I found one loaded with TL072 and the other with LF353. Since I replaced them all with 2134s I had no problem balancing them.
I love it. An apples orange comparison and the difference is in the bananas.
My money is on the bananas.
I would say that I couldn't believe what I was reading, but I've seen it all to often for that to be true.
2031P measure well but sound horrid, "colored" & discontinuous to me
Behringer 2031P
Behringer 2031P vs Audio Nirvana 10"
Behringer 2031P vs Yorkville C190 vs AN10
Behringer 2031P
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Behringer 2031P vs Audio Nirvana 10"
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Behringer 2031P vs Yorkville C190 vs AN10
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The whole premise/query of the thread was silly to begin with. I hope you fellas didn't expect it to turn around 180 degrees and go in a non-silly direction.
Heck, there's even DIYaudio moderators making silly statements. Cheers,
Dave.
Wow, all that distortion at -100db below reference. How could you bear to listen to it!
Time to break out those tried and true passive crossover designs.
Hello Guys,
After a couple of weeks of reading this thread and checking the closeout sales I have a RA500 amplifier in hand and a pair of B2031P’s being delivered this week. I am afraid that the RA500 is under powered (joke) as Behringer recommends 300 watts per side. We will see. I guess that this will be the reference set of bookshelfs at my house.
I guess the DIY part will be the measurement and critical comparison to old school JBL’s.
DT
All Just for fun!
After a couple of weeks of reading this thread and checking the closeout sales I have a RA500 amplifier in hand and a pair of B2031P’s being delivered this week. I am afraid that the RA500 is under powered (joke) as Behringer recommends 300 watts per side. We will see. I guess that this will be the reference set of bookshelfs at my house.
I guess the DIY part will be the measurement and critical comparison to old school JBL’s.
DT
All Just for fun!
Not to my ears it isn't. Not the worst sounding overall, but pretty grainy and not very transparent.
To the person who said that a good op amp always sounds better than an inductor, what about the support components the op amp needs to achieve an inductor's transfer function such as resistors and capacitors & how about supply and RF rejection, none of which the passive inductor has to worry about?
So the Audio Nirvana and Yorkville choices do not sound colored to you??
IMO, you might need to brush up on the audio definition of "Colored"
Hello,
A shiny new pair of B2031P’s arrived at my door. I took the headphones off my head and the sound stage spread out in front of me. I am not disappointed.
BTW the B2031P’s need a sub.
DT
All just for fun!
All speakers need a properly designed and placed subs actually. There isnt a full range speaker in the world that does bass as well as a properly designs and placed subwoofer system.
It all seems a "Tempest in a Teapot" to me.
Have you ever heard the Orion? Nice speaker, but not an imaging monster. Rather flat from my listening experience.
Oddly, only I seem to be the only one to have commented on what should be a very important point.
"The core group found that AS could not be judged without EQ-ing the speakers"
The Behringer and the Eickmeier had to be EQ'd to match the Orion. Even then:
"Matching was not perfect even after EQ"
Important?
The Behringer and the Eickmeier also had subwoofer support. That is going to change things. The test results are not surprising to me. It was only a test of "AS", nothing more. For that the Orion is not the best I've ever heard, not by a long shot. Something more mundane or more bizarre just might do better. Seems they did - a little.
I've heard the Behringers, and I own a controlled directivity loudspeaker. (Gedlee Summas.)
Here's my thoughts:
- It took me a few hours to adjust to the sound of a controlled directivity loudspeaker. When I first listened to the Summas they sounded like the treble was rolled off. Now that I listen to them daily, everything else sounds tizzy and bright. I think the brain has to "adjust" to the presentation.
- I like dipoles. But few can get as loud as the Summas can. And I like to listen loud. The only substantial improvement that I've ever been able to make to my system was by running the Summas as a bipole. (Back to back.) If you guys want to do something zany, someone needs to build a bipole with waveguides. Duke LeJeune is the only person I'm aware of who offers such a beast.
- My impression of the Behringer was that it looks nice, and it's affordable, but I could NEVER live with the treble. Way too hot, and it doesn't have the effortless presentation of the Summa. I'm guessing that the low distortion of the Summa's tweeter, and the foam plug, and the cabinet, creates this sense of effortlessness.
Patrick,
"Duke LeJeune is the only person I'm aware of who offers such a beast"
Which of Duke's are you referring to, I guess any of these three:
AudioKinesis - sound that moves you
http://www.audiokinesis.com/product_ak_jazz-module.html
http://www.audiokinesis.com/product_ak_rhythm-prism.html
"Duke LeJeune is the only person I'm aware of who offers such a beast"
Which of Duke's are you referring to, I guess any of these three:
AudioKinesis - sound that moves you
http://www.audiokinesis.com/product_ak_jazz-module.html
http://www.audiokinesis.com/product_ak_rhythm-prism.html
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Hi John
I've heard you say this before and I'll take your word for it, but I cannot see any reason that it should be so. Where is the listening position? Thats not clear to me. On-axis of one I would guess. I would guess a marked increase in spaciosness with a corresponding decrease in imaging.