By the way, did he somewhere post a description what devices he uses and how everything is configured? Couldn't find that info.
It's apparent to me that we are not talking about the same thing. If you had ever heard what Frank and I are talking about, that would be clear. We are not talking about the same thing.
To give you a visual analogy:
What you enjoy is like the 360 deg Cpt. Nemo thing that used to run at Disney. Remember that? There are other 360 cinema installs around the world, for example at Normandy for the invasion history. It's very cool stuff, I enjoy it.
What Frank and I are talking about isn't 360 cinema, it's a big, bright screen with a fresh 70mm print, or a 4K, 60 fps image. It becomes palpable, like you can reach out and touch it. And it can be so immersive that you just forget it's all in front of you, nothing on the sides. You get lost in it.
That's what we are talking about. Both are fun, both a joy for the senses, but they aren't the same thing.
Good as in more realistic, more enjoyable, overall better.
Not as precise as with normal toe-in. More diffuse, but too diffuse for my taste. Center image not as well defined.
Similar or a little darker.
Yes
No, or a least I don't remember doing it.
Did you happen to notice the model of the headphones they were using?
They look like the HD219 on the video here:
Product News: DTS Delivers Surround-Sound Headphone Magic at CES 2013, by Arlen Schweiger - Electronic House
Correct. Extremely basic, full range units with a paralleled piezo tweeter, in a small, curved plastic box. Just like typical PC monitors ... but they are complemented by a proper, reasonably decent subwoofer. This is about as far away from what Pano uses as you can get, and still be on the same planet, 
. Which is the point, of course ...
They have been tweaked somewhat: all junk connections fixed, flimsy internals stabilised, walls given some damping, Blu-Tack used to seal gaskets and screw fittings; most importantly, strongly coupled to heavy structures which dissipate the cabinet vibrational energy.
Because they're cheap the drivers need heavy conditioning from cold to come on song; an hour's worth of driving R&B at high volume usually does the trick ...
. Which is the point, of course ...They have been tweaked somewhat: all junk connections fixed, flimsy internals stabilised, walls given some damping, Blu-Tack used to seal gaskets and screw fittings; most importantly, strongly coupled to heavy structures which dissipate the cabinet vibrational energy.
Because they're cheap the drivers need heavy conditioning from cold to come on song; an hour's worth of driving R&B at high volume usually does the trick ...
They should only play the headphones without showing any speakers. I believe the results would be very different. Smyth does the Realiser demo the same way, first the speakers and then the headphones. This will have a significant impact on what is heard as visual cues tend to override aural cues.
I do own a Smyth Realiser and the auditory scene without any visual cues can be extremely different. But that's why I bought it. It helps me to hear what is really there. It helps removing the "ventriloquism effect" and confirmation bias.
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Correct. Extremely basic, full range units with a paralleled piezo tweeter, in a small, curved plastic box. Just like typical PC monitors ... but they are complemented by a proper, reasonably decent subwoofer. This is about as far away from what Pano uses as you can get, and still be on the same planet,
They have been tweaked somewhat: all junk connections fixed, flimsy internals stabilised, walls given some damping, Blu-Tack used to seal gaskets and screw fittings; most importantly, strongly coupled to heavy structures which dissipate the cabinet vibrational energy.
Because they're cheap the drivers need heavy conditioning from cold to come on song; an hour's worth of driving R&B at high volume usually does the trick ...
You really do believe all of this? I hope you never have to participate in blind testing. It will probably be a soul shattering experience for you.
The soul shattering experience is when I listen to other people's expensive setups, and shudder at the quality of the sound I hear. A quarter of a million dollar setup using turntable and ARC Reference amps was sheer torture for the first hour, with treble scratching my ears out ... I've heard it all over the years, I can tell good sound from bad half a dozen rooms away, let alone blindfolded ...
That's not exactly what I meant. I agree that sound quality isn't correlated to the price of a device. But you seem to believe that you can mechanically tweak a cheap home theater bundle in a way that it sounds better than anything anybody here listens to (Pano would be the one exception).
Another claim of yours is that the sound stage doesn't collapse when you move to a speaker. Have you even been talking about two-speaker stereo in your posts?
Another claim of yours is that the sound stage doesn't collapse when you move to a speaker. Have you even been talking about two-speaker stereo in your posts?
It would not be better in certain areas, it can't do very deep bass for example. Nor would it reproduce very simple, very pure single instrument efforts, the audiophile fodder type of thing, as well as a speaker with top notch drivers.
But that is not what I'm interested in at the moment, I'm working on tracking down precisely what needs to be done to make an ordinary system work to the level where the other qualities I've mentioned come to the fore. Because the system in many people's eyes would be lacking makes it a more interesting challenge for me, I get a buzz from having something as basic as this work so well.
Yes, I have been talking, always, about conventional stereo, 2 speaker playback -- well, 3, the subwoofer counts there, it's placed central, slightly in front of the 2 mains.
The invisible speaker thing should work just as well with a single speaker only, though I've never tried it. The key to that happening is that those low level cues come through cleanly, which is not a problem even for a cheapish speaker -- it is a problem for the electronics though, which is where the real work is done, in my case ...
I wish you the best of luck but quite honestly I don't think that your approach will ever get you there. I believe what you claim is real for you but I also believe it's delusional.
Hmmm, ... Terry, where have I heard that before ... ?
Poor Pano, and all those other deluded vistors to the demos, there must have been a bad virus going around at the time ...
Obviously I have got there, or I wouldn't be talking about it. It may not be consistently achievable, but that's the nature of the beast.
Actually, at the moment I've killed the system stone dead,. The chip amps get a heavy workout, I run them to the rails a lot of the time, and as I mentioned some weeks ago the main one was starting to send out distress signals. It lasted a little while, but some days ago decided to call it a day, and internally shorted. Took out the transformer secondary's fuses, so I'll have to transfer the driving duties to one of the remaining chip amps and get it back to life again ...
?Poor Pano, and all those other deluded vistors to the demos, there must have been a bad virus going around at the time ...
Obviously I have got there, or I wouldn't be talking about it. It may not be consistently achievable, but that's the nature of the beast.
Actually, at the moment I've killed the system stone dead,
. The chip amps get a heavy workout, I run them to the rails a lot of the time, and as I mentioned some weeks ago the main one was starting to send out distress signals. It lasted a little while, but some days ago decided to call it a day, and internally shorted. Took out the transformer secondary's fuses, so I'll have to transfer the driving duties to one of the remaining chip amps and get it back to life again ...
haha, sorry frank, looks like google is a good resource if you know how to use it.
for the life of me, I would not have remembered the title if I tried.
I WILL confess to simply alerting markus to 'not take you too seriously', I did not however link him to that.
I am torn between constantly challenging you (I can't see why I have any intrinsic right to deny you your internet enjoyment) but equally when YOU do not provide full disclosure of where you are coming from...well that is my dilemna.
So yes, I confess to a gentle nudge as mentioned, I most certainly left it at that.
Markus it seems did a bit of work on his own.
for the life of me, I would not have remembered the title if I tried.
I WILL confess to simply alerting markus to 'not take you too seriously', I did not however link him to that.
I am torn between constantly challenging you (I can't see why I have any intrinsic right to deny you your internet enjoyment) but equally when YOU do not provide full disclosure of where you are coming from...well that is my dilemna.
So yes, I confess to a gentle nudge as mentioned, I most certainly left it at that.
Markus it seems did a bit of work on his own.
That looks like what they used, yes. It was very dark in there, so it's hard to say for sure.
It was so dark that I could see only L,C,R and only just a little. The others I didn't notice, but there was a screen with a diagram of placement. Mostly I closed my eyes, anyway. In real and in simulation the front high speaker positions sounded vague. I thought that was odd. The "Subwoofer" was amazing, because it was all through the headphones. I was sure they were cheating, but they weren't - all in the headphones. I mentioned that and they said they were very happy with what they were able to accomplish in simulated subwoofer sound and those headphones.
Seeing the title of this thread it would have been a more obvious choice to try to achieve audio nirvana with the Behringer speakers
.
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