you are not reading the posts
I built XR19 look alike, with two woofers, three midranges, and six tweeters, all arranged horizontaly...it sounded fine, I have dismantled it since long ago, but I remember I liked when tweeters were curved...that was the point I tried to make
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As my high-tech Thermal Detection System has acquired a heat signature (my ears are burning), I can only assume that Cal or Chris have mentioned my name.
Seriously, when I first saw a picture of Don Keele's array, I thought he had finally flipped his wig. However, I received a private e-mail from someone I hold in very high regard, that he had been there and listened to them. He stated that they're the real deal, sounded very nice and that I should read Keele's paper.
Regarding focused arrays, I believe that it solves many of the intrinsic problems that plague vertical arrays. If properly designed, they can eliminate comb filtering, as well as the timing (or phase issues) attending the disparate distances from the drivers to the listening position that vertical arrays present without elaborate measures being taken.
Adason is correct in saying that the listening spot is narrow, at least vertically. But it does seem to provide the taunt intensity of a lucid, phase coherent presentation, with what I believe is a sense of unlimited scale that one often associates with highly efficient horns.
Speakers are so subject an individual's taste, that I wouldn't argue with what anyone doesn't like. It may depend on how they're designed, what drivers are used, crossover frequency and a whole host of issues that are found in any design.
Mine were crossed over at 450 Hz (1st order high-pass/2nd order low-pass series). I flatter myself (perhaps with insufficient cause) that the low crossover frequency, coupled with a series crossover and the very extended range of the drivers used in the array, combine in such a way as to offer sonic rewards. For critical listening sessions by one's self, or with a couple of people seated within the sweet spot, they seem to be quite nice. They are not, however, going to sound as good anywhere else in the room and I wouldn't recommend them as a "Social" or party speaker.
I would welcome any comments by those that have heard my arrays...good or bad.
Best Regards,
TerryO
Seriously, when I first saw a picture of Don Keele's array, I thought he had finally flipped his wig. However, I received a private e-mail from someone I hold in very high regard, that he had been there and listened to them. He stated that they're the real deal, sounded very nice and that I should read Keele's paper.
Regarding focused arrays, I believe that it solves many of the intrinsic problems that plague vertical arrays. If properly designed, they can eliminate comb filtering, as well as the timing (or phase issues) attending the disparate distances from the drivers to the listening position that vertical arrays present without elaborate measures being taken.
Adason is correct in saying that the listening spot is narrow, at least vertically. But it does seem to provide the taunt intensity of a lucid, phase coherent presentation, with what I believe is a sense of unlimited scale that one often associates with highly efficient horns.
Speakers are so subject an individual's taste, that I wouldn't argue with what anyone doesn't like. It may depend on how they're designed, what drivers are used, crossover frequency and a whole host of issues that are found in any design.
Mine were crossed over at 450 Hz (1st order high-pass/2nd order low-pass series). I flatter myself (perhaps with insufficient cause) that the low crossover frequency, coupled with a series crossover and the very extended range of the drivers used in the array, combine in such a way as to offer sonic rewards. For critical listening sessions by one's self, or with a couple of people seated within the sweet spot, they seem to be quite nice. They are not, however, going to sound as good anywhere else in the room and I wouldn't recommend them as a "Social" or party speaker.
I would welcome any comments by those that have heard my arrays...good or bad.
Best Regards,
TerryO
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It's kind of the reverse, most everyone has suggested he follows Keele's advice, and he is questioning whether or not the curve of the array is critical or not because he doesn't have the woodworking tools and skills required to get the proper arc.. (Something I can relate to as I lack the skills and some of the tools necessary to do this sort of stuff.)
Well I was there at Dayton with Don Keele and his array. I saw the array and some prototype panels.
For the type of array, it either has to be curved, or the drivers delayed - period.
From what I saw, the curve is not the hard part. The baffle face was done in thin MDF then bent to fit the curved sides. With all those holes, the baffle face was quite floppy. The baffle had been made by CNC for all the holes and the driver insets.
The curve gives the drivers their delay. A resistor network shades them for amplitude. They were shaded in groups of 4, IIRC, not each driver.
Again, I don't think the curve what be that hard. Make a big pivot for a router or Rotocut and off you go with the sides. The tedious part would be all the driver holes. Not so bad if you don't countersink them - just a hole saw. I say go for it! It's the best array I've ever heard.
..
For the type of array, it either has to be curved, or the drivers delayed - period.
From what I saw, the curve is not the hard part. The baffle face was done in thin MDF then bent to fit the curved sides. With all those holes, the baffle face was quite floppy. The baffle had been made by CNC for all the holes and the driver insets.
The curve gives the drivers their delay. A resistor network shades them for amplitude. They were shaded in groups of 4, IIRC, not each driver.
Again, I don't think the curve what be that hard. Make a big pivot for a router or Rotocut and off you go with the sides. The tedious part would be all the driver holes. Not so bad if you don't countersink them - just a hole saw. I say go for it! It's the best array I've ever heard.
..
Making the curve is actually fairly simple.
There are two "fairly simple" no- three ways to do it.
1. make a template that has the curve, transfer that curve to a "master" piece, like dense "masonite" (floor underlayment) or any similar material, even a good plywood. This is a template for a follower bit on a router. Now index the template across a piece of MDF or whatever ur going to use making curves that are ~1" wide (or whatever depth you want for the front panel). Cut a bunch... they will be glued side by side to make the face...
2. Make the same templates, get thin stuff, like "bendable" plywood or masonite, etc, cut to width, lay them up over the templates, flat to get a curve, you'll be putting wood glue between the multiple layers that you lay up... when the glue dries it will keep the curved shape, the two end template pieces can then be the sides.
3. Score solid wood or plywood (saw cuts not all the way through) this enables a flat sheet to bend, lay that up over the same template...
I think it is a worthy project... the curve can be approximated fairly closely from Keele's work, and if ur making an array the same size as he made it ought to be enough to "eyeball it", imo. And, you can always email him and ask advice.
Assuming ur in a room with an actual standard size ceiling, the ceiling will have an effect on the performance of the array no matter what the curve... unless of course you do one heck of a job on absorption up there...
I'd build it and worry about it later... get the best information you can and GO FOR IT!!
_-_-bear
There are two "fairly simple" no- three ways to do it.
1. make a template that has the curve, transfer that curve to a "master" piece, like dense "masonite" (floor underlayment) or any similar material, even a good plywood. This is a template for a follower bit on a router. Now index the template across a piece of MDF or whatever ur going to use making curves that are ~1" wide (or whatever depth you want for the front panel). Cut a bunch... they will be glued side by side to make the face...
2. Make the same templates, get thin stuff, like "bendable" plywood or masonite, etc, cut to width, lay them up over the templates, flat to get a curve, you'll be putting wood glue between the multiple layers that you lay up... when the glue dries it will keep the curved shape, the two end template pieces can then be the sides.
3. Score solid wood or plywood (saw cuts not all the way through) this enables a flat sheet to bend, lay that up over the same template...
I think it is a worthy project... the curve can be approximated fairly closely from Keele's work, and if ur making an array the same size as he made it ought to be enough to "eyeball it", imo. And, you can always email him and ask advice.
Assuming ur in a room with an actual standard size ceiling, the ceiling will have an effect on the performance of the array no matter what the curve... unless of course you do one heck of a job on absorption up there...
I'd build it and worry about it later... get the best information you can and GO FOR IT!!
_-_-bear
I'd build it and worry about it later... get the best information you can and GO FOR IT!!
_-_-bear
that's what I need to hear, thanks bear!
Attachments
yes, you are right, plus there is Keele's web page and his presentations and his papers, no shortage of information
I was about to built it, but I do not have any fancy tools, so was wondering how critical the shape is. Some folks here say its very critical and that my result will be worse than normal array.
By no fancy tools, what do you mean? A hand saw and a chisel??
Harbor Freight or Grizzly (if you want good stuff) is your friend...
Listen not to the non-believers and nay-sayers, they know not of what they speak! Hallelujah! It has been said, yay, indeed, go forth and buildeth! Have no fear in thine heart! For I am with thee!
Go for it, worst case you make another one that is better...
_-_-bear
Harbor Freight or Grizzly (if you want good stuff) is your friend...
Listen not to the non-believers and nay-sayers, they know not of what they speak! Hallelujah! It has been said, yay, indeed, go forth and buildeth! Have no fear in thine heart! For I am with thee!
Go for it, worst case you make another one that is better...
_-_-bear
hand saw and a drill...all I got...was enough last 20 years of speaker building
(my speakers are usually ugly, but good sounding)
hell yeah I am going to built something, I got 200 tweeters and 100 midranges! what else can I do
check online for Harbor Freight - their tools are good enough to make it through your project and then some, and CHEAP!!
_-_-bear
A router and some carbide bits - a follow bit will get you a long way, they make holes and cut curve, make a lot of noise and sawdust!
They also let you make recessed (flush) speaker mounting holes...
_-_-bear
A router and some carbide bits - a follow bit will get you a long way, they make holes and cut curve, make a lot of noise and sawdust!
They also let you make recessed (flush) speaker mounting holes...
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Madisound already sent me replacement for lost or damaged drivers, so I am all set. Thanks Madisound.
Thanks bear for the tip for tools. Actually, I found a co-worker who has all kinds of tools, he is going to help me with so many holes to drill.
Just want to let you guys know, that those 3" 16 ohm fullrange drivers are sounding really nice. I just slapped 4 of them on cartoon box, wired them all in parallel for 4 ohms and they are sounding mighty nice. They go pretty deep, and with little lift in the treble sound balanced. Nice. I am looking forward to the project now.
Thanks bear for the tip for tools. Actually, I found a co-worker who has all kinds of tools, he is going to help me with so many holes to drill.
Just want to let you guys know, that those 3" 16 ohm fullrange drivers are sounding really nice. I just slapped 4 of them on cartoon box, wired them all in parallel for 4 ohms and they are sounding mighty nice. They go pretty deep, and with little lift in the treble sound balanced. Nice. I am looking forward to the project now.
they are only $2 each
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=121&products_id=8987
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=121&products_id=8987
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