I have always though it must be entertaining* when you can almost guarantee that something somewhere will be plugged into a different phase of the mains.
*entertaining in an 'fzzt' sort of way.
I call them 'hoses' because they seem more appropriate to 'conduct' water.
Here is a thought, what if you made the loudspeaker draw the same current at all frequencies? The resistance in the cable wouldn't really matter much. In fact, even the output impedance wouldn't matter much as well. And does it make sense to make speaker cables have lower DC resistance than the output impedance of the amplifier?
And then I can't help it, what really is this stuff about damping factor and need for ultra-low whatever, does that number mean anything? What does it quantify? One number divided by another equals what? A myth? It has to correlate with a mechanism that can be explained how it works, and I have not seen that.
Just asking questions.
So every time I see these crazy speaker cables, my thought starts to wonder down that way. BTW, I have several friends who are in the speaker cable industry and we are still on very good terms. Go figure! You can disagree and still be friends.
Here is a thought, what if you made the loudspeaker draw the same current at all frequencies? The resistance in the cable wouldn't really matter much. In fact, even the output impedance wouldn't matter much as well. And does it make sense to make speaker cables have lower DC resistance than the output impedance of the amplifier?
And then I can't help it, what really is this stuff about damping factor and need for ultra-low whatever, does that number mean anything? What does it quantify? One number divided by another equals what? A myth? It has to correlate with a mechanism that can be explained how it works, and I have not seen that.
Just asking questions.
So every time I see these crazy speaker cables, my thought starts to wonder down that way. BTW, I have several friends who are in the speaker cable industry and we are still on very good terms. Go figure! You can disagree and still be friends.
Ahh - got it. I’ve read through the quotes you posted, and it’s a bit clearer for me now, but I’ve still got a ways to go unfortunately.
Regrettably, I am not up on this latest technology stuff , so I’ll just have to stick to Maxwell until I’ve climbed the ‘ULF reclocking’ and ‘beeswax fuse’ learning curve.
Has anybody noticed that I have never made any claims about wires? Can't get at me for that one...
You have a brilliant grasp on what folks here on DIY might have come to expect from you.
On a more serious note, I don't think anyone here is out to get someone in particular.
It is just that ill conceived ideas are not always applauded by all.
Take the Elsinore speaker, which deserves some serious flogging for its design flaws as well as for the cerebral incontinency that marks its marketing.
But what does it mean? You have divided one number by another, what is the quantitative value of the equation? I have not yet seen an explanation that makes any sense. And how does number mean damping? Everything I know about loudspeakers (and amps too), tells me this has no meaning.
So, over to you...?
Come on, it's a "factor". Regards it's meaning, big is good
apparently, but probably not
You asked "what does it quantify". Now you are asking a different question, but again I am surprised that you ask. DF is a crude measure of the electrical damping applied by the amp to the speakers in the region of the bass resonance. It is a poor measure, because the damping goes something like 1/(1 + 1/DF) = DF/(1+DF). It has meaning, a simple meaning, so I am surprised that you claim to have no understanding of this meaning. Maybe some of what you 'know' about speakers is incorrect or inadequate?Joe Rasmussen said:
Some real measurements
Finally, I got some useful result. Measuring 13+14kHz intermodulation, tweeter acoustical output, there is a notable improvement in H3 (almost 20dB) under the current drive, compared to voltage drive. 1V across the speaker. Again Beyma T2030.
I will need to revise my web page re current drive
Nice work.
This is most likely due to a/ voice coil inductance and b/ voice coil inductance
modulation versus excursion.
Beyma don't give a value for Le in the T2030 data sheet but looking at the impedance plot, rising at HF, it is not that low.
It would be interesting to compare two tweeters of high and low Le values, V
versus I drive.
T
Question is the same:
Explain how it adds damping. That is all I am asking for. Seems reasonable.
Poor measure? What does that mean? And how is it simple?
I see no explanation!
And where is the 'claim' etc - this is the usual accusation. I am learning a lot more quickly these days. Where is the 'claim' that I made?
Hi Terry
Hope you and L are doing well. Give me a call and I might have something to say about this without getting into trouble. You are touching on something interesting. If I try to add to it I will be accused of making some 'claim' and here we go again... know what I mean?
Cheers, Joe
This doesn't sound right.... but I'm sure you will explain it
Are you saying that if I have a wave source consisting of summation of say 1k, 3k and 9k then the mics electrical OP will be equiv of those 3 delayed 90 deg and summed?
This is gross distortion of the IP wave form.
T
For the point 1, provided first that musical signals are alternative, how can-you pretend any improvement, in a direction or an other, with supposed "directionalized" cables ... if such a thing exists.
Second, what is supposed to be the effect of such a "de-directionalization". Reduction of the impedance ? (it is supposed to be negligible in front of the ones of the circuits on each side of any wire apart speakers). Some magical "diode" effect that could be so far under any actual measurement's threshold that nobody can measure-it, but "YOU" could hear ?
For point 2, please, think twice. The only objects on which a break-in can have effect are objects that wear out. Does an audio liason cable wear under the effect of the signal ?
We can be open minded ... up to the point that an assertion goes against the laws of physics.
And, please, J.C., there are so many improvements that we can bring to any existing electronic device, why would one go so far as to discredit oneself with such nonsenses ?
The voice coil moves in a magnetic field. It has a voltage induced in it. This creates a current in the circuit comprising the speaker, the cables and the amp output. Ohm's Law tells you the current. The current opposes the motion, via Lenz's Law. Hence damping. See any speaker textbook for details.Joe Rasmussen said:
DF=20 and DF=100 give nearly the same damping. Dividing one relevant number by another relevant number is simple.
Your years of searching (presumably in the wrong place?) are over; see above for the explanation.
You said
That appears to me to be a claim of no understanding, or alternatively a claim that DF has no meaning. What would you call it?Joe Rasmussen said:
Are you trolling or seeking knowledge?
I thought mentioning 10 gauge cable on a 500' run did cause a loss of high frequencies and no one inquired why that happens.
It is due to skin effect. So a valid question would be with home grade 18 gauge loudspeaker wire what length would cause a 1 dB drop for an 8 ohm loudspeaker at 10,000 hertz? Then again for 10 gauge?
It is due to skin effect. So a valid question would be with home grade 18 gauge loudspeaker wire what length would cause a 1 dB drop for an 8 ohm loudspeaker at 10,000 hertz? Then again for 10 gauge?
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