If you are someone who believes DACs have a sound, and so you need the best one you can get, then if you use active DSP crossovers, you would need a good DAC for each analog output. That can get expensive in a hurry, particularly if tri-amping. Also, most DSP has a sound, at least judging by VST plugins. The very best real time EQs have almost no sound of their own, but they tend to be resource hogs. Here is some fairly informed discussion about whether or not up sampling is needed for DSP EQs: Topic: Upsampling... Again...? (1/1) - Forums--Digital Domain - Digital Domain: CD Mastering | Mastered for iTunes | Audio Mastering | Blu-Ray Mastering
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Quality DAC devices are not terribly expensive. DSP only has the sound you program into it. If you want output unaltered from the input data, that's what you get. Otherwise you hear the filters, or whatever, you have designed into the signal path. DSPs are cheap too, nowadays.
Quality and expense are relative things. If you want to tri-amp DSP crossovers using DAC-2s, it costs about $1k/output. So if you need 6 DAC outputs that would add up to about $6k. Cheap for some, expensive for others.
Also, if you want to do DSP crossovers, you can't avoid digital filters. Some sound different than others for various reasons, and not are all equally accurate, if accuracy if the goal.
Yes, that's the normal audiophile line of thinking. It's not without merit. But there are others ways to listen.
I'm on record here and elsewhere as saying that I DON'T believe that good DAC chips have a sound. It's the following circuitry that can add flavor. So I'm careful with that.
I just believe that the pursuit of fine detail, just because it's there (or you think it is) is just a "gear love" thing. Or it's a favoring of the trees over the forest. I've been there, been guilty of it plenty. But it's usually not natural to my ears.
There seems to be some evidence that both have some effect, but mostly it's the analog, as you say. Regarding DAC chips, Benchmark has some words about where they think the best DAC chip is less than optimal, and how they choose to address the issues: https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/inside-the-dac2-part-2-digital-processing
Regarding perception of detail, sometimes good sounding harmonic distortion (or good sounding clock jitter) can sound like it is more detailed than is actually contained in the original digital recording. Sometimes people think that extra apparent detail is really supposed to be there.
Almost totally true. Except with some pop/rock recordings where the top end is goosed too much. Those need high cut of some kind or another.
Fortunately, there are companies who competitively strive to make their DSP, etc better (and sometimes they end up with lower cost). At this point in time, with the computing power available, high accuracy, low cost, its a good time to jump into active x-over systems. besides the driver cross-over, EQ, time alignments et al can be done. Somethings a passive network isnt much help, realistically. But do plan your financial budget for about $10K USD by the time you are done. Then you will need really great drivers (very low distortion, high dynamic range, wide FR and flat power response, controlled directivity, etc). Maybe then your source/player needs upgrading. Practically no end to it. But it sure sounds great when all is at high calibre. Only thing left to do is try to find great recordings and enjoy the music. .
THx-RNMarsh
THx-RNMarsh
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A lot of those.... must be EQ'ed for listening in your car. Those I just never again listen to them. Dont miss them as there is a lot of recorded music that is at least listenable/passable. I just move on to the others'.
-RNM
Lets have more info... what have you measured with biwiring vs mono wiring? ?
THx-RNMarsh
The signal which is the difference is a zero integral signal. I suspect it is not viewable when the measurement tool is one that calculates signal power. I discussed this issue a bit with a rather good measurement physicist.
My intent was to put together a pair of IA's to subtract tweeter signals of a bi and mono set. Scott sent me chips I intended to use in my build/test, however the last two years have not been conducive to any hands on work.
John
My K3838's 15" do plenty of bass. Did. Now in the slow lane for changing the surrounds.
Robert, have you had a chance to listen to any of this overly-bright stuff on your new setup? Maybe it sounds smoother up there now? Might be an interesting test.
- Jim
You are responding to Richard's post but using my name. SO if you mean me..... I have. It gets worse and better all at once. The shock of my life recently was to put on my mother's copy of Cheap Thrills (it survived my parents psychedelic fueled parties, somehow, in pretty good shape) on a tube-hybrid design of the LCRMKIII phono preamp I am developing. The top-end was hyper bright, in your face. I put on other stuff and the top end was fine. Very resolving but just fine. Most of the top-end on the goosed recordings can be mitigated with heavy cartridge loading. That acts like a HF cut tone control.
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Having just bought a DAC that permits the loading of three distinct FIR filters, I can say that IF a FIR filter is used, they impart a clear and distinctive sound. Period. The DAC chip itself might have nil sound, no way to tell, since you will have some sort of "filter", even NOS (No Over Sampling) is in effect a sort of "filter".
Back in the day, the I/V section and the buffer certainly made significant difference.
I've just acquired a DAC board that does Discrete R-2R and needs no output buffer (it has one if you like), presumably the only thing that will be heard is one of many FIR filters that can be downloaded into the 4 available slots and selected. We'll see in the coming weeks what that one does to confirm or deny my conjecture/suspicions.
At present I'm beginning to suspect that the "digital filtering" is the thing that has the primary responsibility for the sound of digital.
And, I'm thinking that this is why digital does not sound like "analog", despite having the better SNR and similarly much better dynamic range.
Of course, my advice is that if you do not yourself hear anything like what I (and others - whomever they be) are hearing in this respect that you do go and (seriously) get your hearing checked and consider (again seriously) upgrading your system by appropriate means (especially DIY).
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