Sprinkle, I am told, has some efficacious software he developed with remarkably good predictive power. I suspect it will be a long time before it is public domain.
It's a nice setup to have good chamber access and good software.
And I don't think he wears a lab coat or carries a clipboard.
It's a nice setup to have good chamber access and good software.
And I don't think he wears a lab coat or carries a clipboard.
Yes the horn is new. And they really did patent something worthwhile.
Bose beat them on molding round edged port flares to reduce chuffing noise. Of course Community Loudspeakers was one of if not the first to do that. They were among the first to mold horns from fiberglass and rounding the edges was normal. Not to mention the folks who made wood boxes with routed round tapers. Having read some Bose patents they are very well written.
I suspect the correct issue would have been rounding the part of the port inside the box.
But loosing that one for millions really ticked the Harman high and mighty off of patents.
Next week, I'm shipping the ESL speakers off to Bangkok. The M2 gets some acoustic tests and measurements as well... to gauge the in-room performance. And, see how well the wave-guides are dong their job to minimize reflections from nearby surfaces.
While waiting for the high SR, CFA, ultra-low distortion analog amps.... I picked up a pair of refurbished Digital amps that are normally mated to these speakers. The Crown iT5000HD. They include a very flexible and powerful DSP inside for all sorts of uses/purposes. Way more than what I need it to do.... I downloaded the M2 x-over/EQ files and ported it thru the amps USB. Bingo...music. I can learn something about high power digital amps and how clean they are in terms of EMI/RFI and power line noise while I am waiting for the analog power amps.
THx-RNMarsh
While waiting for the high SR, CFA, ultra-low distortion analog amps.... I picked up a pair of refurbished Digital amps that are normally mated to these speakers. The Crown iT5000HD. They include a very flexible and powerful DSP inside for all sorts of uses/purposes. Way more than what I need it to do.... I downloaded the M2 x-over/EQ files and ported it thru the amps USB. Bingo...music. I can learn something about high power digital amps and how clean they are in terms of EMI/RFI and power line noise while I am waiting for the analog power amps.
THx-RNMarsh
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BTW -- JC often talks about the individual harmonics created by an amplifier. There are a lot of interesting tests one can do just by obtaining Test CD's. An old Stereophile test CD #2 has some tests for listening to various levels of certain harmonics.
If you do not have time nor test equipment, this CD can be helpful.
Chesky (Vol 3) has more interesting tests to listen to for comparisons.... such as, Dirty vs Clean power -- using a violin recorded with Clean and with Dirty power.
Ask me what it was like playing Led Zep's "Whole Lotta Love" at alive level with the M2's.
Lisa just said "Damn !! "
THx-RNMarsh
If you do not have time nor test equipment, this CD can be helpful.
Chesky (Vol 3) has more interesting tests to listen to for comparisons.... such as, Dirty vs Clean power -- using a violin recorded with Clean and with Dirty power.
Ask me what it was like playing Led Zep's "Whole Lotta Love" at alive level with the M2's.
Lisa just said "Damn !! "
THx-RNMarsh
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When my horn-loving friends razz me for being prejudiced against the genre after me hearing dozens of examples of, "Oh, those other ones suck, THESE are the ones you'll love!" which reliably disappointed, they often like to point out that I haven't heard any horns under blind conditions and it could just be my biases making me fool myself, and... they're absolutely correct.
Some good DIY engineering here and given that they measure well, I suspect you might like them even unblinded:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...lti-way-point-source-horn-25.html#post4644522
I had read about the CD being a copy with enough mods to get around the patent, but IMO getting the modelling software to work so that you can get actually get the performance you need is worthy of a patent.
billshurv,
You really have two things that are going on here. One is the compression driver that I think is a copy of a BMS or someone like that's driver development, not that hard to make 10% changes to get around a patent claim and make your own claims. The other is the dispersion pattern from the horn which as I said I think I discussed with Earl Geddes and works with a chaotic diffraction effect in the throat section. The flare rate can still be a common exponential expansion with that shape change or whatever they chose. What I haven't seen is the actual non-corrected response curve of the combination, just driver and horn without a network attached.
You really have two things that are going on here. One is the compression driver that I think is a copy of a BMS or someone like that's driver development, not that hard to make 10% changes to get around a patent claim and make your own claims. The other is the dispersion pattern from the horn which as I said I think I discussed with Earl Geddes and works with a chaotic diffraction effect in the throat section. The flare rate can still be a common exponential expansion with that shape change or whatever they chose. What I haven't seen is the actual non-corrected response curve of the combination, just driver and horn without a network attached.
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I think we are in agreement on this. The theory is well known on the horn but needs very clever modelling software to get the profile required to get performance.
From a purely cerebral consideration I prefer Earl's solution to the problem, but sadly cannot afford any of them at the moment.
From a purely cerebral consideration I prefer Earl's solution to the problem, but sadly cannot afford any of them at the moment.
I'm beginning to think horns are used more often to circumvent excess noise on the electronics side... than they're necessary to fulfil imaging in a room without piles of treatment.
To me their true value is that you can have an extensively more linear driver, which inherently will have a linear response that's at an incline in respect to frequency. The horn normalizes the response issue. (multiple horns and drivers will probably be needed for the full spectrum of frequencies)
Using them for directivity, as said above, seems oriented more toward a bonus for the deficiencies of electronics. At least that's the opinion I've been forming.
To me their true value is that you can have an extensively more linear driver, which inherently will have a linear response that's at an incline in respect to frequency. The horn normalizes the response issue. (multiple horns and drivers will probably be needed for the full spectrum of frequencies)
Using them for directivity, as said above, seems oriented more toward a bonus for the deficiencies of electronics. At least that's the opinion I've been forming.
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Define "problem", Bill. If it just has to make noise, then horns aren't necessary either. The goal is for it to be good, at least, that's the common idea. I've found no end to noise reduction benefits, so long as they don't pinch current.
For example I'm using two 470uh inductors on my amplifiers AC power on the primary side of the transformer, right now. It was a noticeable improvement. It's a low power amp.
For example I'm using two 470uh inductors on my amplifiers AC power on the primary side of the transformer, right now. It was a noticeable improvement. It's a low power amp.
Really? In which sense? I thought that the fact that horns generally have (much) higher sensitivity than closed or vented boxes, they need much quieter electronics to prevent audible noise.
Jan
Quiet for artifacts, not for noise that deteriorates the music. One is heard with nothing playing (and a big problem for sensitive speakers) the other is reflected in how the music sounds. Sometimes they're the same, but not often. For my 470uh example, it didn't change the faint noise I can hear with my head to the speaker of a bit of pink/white type noise (artifact), but when the music is playing it's clearly different sounding.
So are you saying that non-horn speakers somehow cause electronic noise that horns do not?
I guess you are not talking about the masking effect of music which is independent of the speaker type, or are you?
I mean, with music playing, all noise is less audible than without anything playing of course.
Can you explain a bit more?
Jan
Attachment source:
JBL Master Reference Monitor - Page 74
Measurement originator:
Testbericht - JBL M2 - Master Reference Monitor - Monitor für große Studios und Abhörräume / SOUND & RECORDING Ausgabe 12/2014
George
Attachments
You mean like with this tweeter
H1499-06 27TBCD/GB-DXT
Which is good enough to be used by Bruno in his Kii. It is much like the kind of kinked horn as used in the large JBL, just round instead of square. This apparently aids with directivity control, but I unfortunately do not know the theory behind it. EV has also used kinked horns.
So, I don't understand the intricacies of this design. But, it appears to be very good in controlling directivity, at the cost of some FR compensation that is required (at least for the DXT-tweeter). That is clever engineering. Making electronic corrections has become cheap, so that creates an extra degree of freedom in loudspeaker design.
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