I certainly have tried, with and without, so it really depends on the situation ... I used to be more adventurous,
, but at the moment I'm content with reaching a reasonable level, it's more "proof of concept" adventures at the moment. If the motivation is there to pull out all the stops I would go down that route - something for the future, perhaps ... 
Truer. But what really counts is the analog output. To the extent that PSR isn't infinite, the power supply counts, but how the circuitry responds to noise is part of the equation.
Thanks.
And I have added four more outside the filter’s case.
Or have the audio ground HF-decoupled from the chassis ground (P.E.) ?
Low voltage monitoring (but still not galvanically isolated)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/lounge/146693-john-curls-blowtorch-preamplifier-part-ii-3454.html#post3361980
Maybe such a filter works only when it is physically located as close to the main’s entry as possible (I am thinking of the line cord that is routed inside the enclosure radiating due the main’s HF trash)
Usually the claim is: “by inadvertently changing the impedance of the line”.
But again, LP filters have to change the impedance of the line at high frequencies.
Then the claim should be: “by changing the impedance of the line around the main’s frequency”.
That too. And if you mean the harmonics input filter built inside an SMPS,
I think you make a good point for investigation.
George
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Just to show how messed up all the information on dietary information is here is a new one. Completely counter to the argument about about carb/protein ratios. Nobody knows what they are talking about, it is all conjecture at this point.
Low-carb Paleo and ketogenic diets prevent Alzheimer's and starve cancer - National Celebrity Fitness and Health | Examiner.com
Low-carb Paleo and ketogenic diets prevent Alzheimer's and starve cancer - National Celebrity Fitness and Health | Examiner.com
One day a news outlet might publish an accurate article and another day they will publish something completely opposite. That doesn't mean both of the articles are false, or that accurate information isn't available.
You don't need to read news outlets to get this information. There are books by Steve Phinney and Jeff Volek on the subject. They provide plenty of science background that you can follow up on if you want to verify.
I wouldn't say it's all conjecture if you haven't read the books. Just consider how much of an investment in time and energy is worth being healthier than you currently are doing what works best for you so far.
A lack of consensus does not mean there is no accurate information. It just means you need to read more books, and be a better judge of the character of the authors when it comes to science where you need an author to explain it to you.
You don't need to read news outlets to get this information. There are books by Steve Phinney and Jeff Volek on the subject. They provide plenty of science background that you can follow up on if you want to verify.
I wouldn't say it's all conjecture if you haven't read the books. Just consider how much of an investment in time and energy is worth being healthier than you currently are doing what works best for you so far.
A lack of consensus does not mean there is no accurate information. It just means you need to read more books, and be a better judge of the character of the authors when it comes to science where you need an author to explain it to you.
Keantoken,
Even if you only limit yourself to the JAMA you will find this is happening all the time, Studies that either have opposing views or many times when something is given as a studied clinical trial that is later reversed. There are so many unknowns and so many unknown interactions that can take place it is just a confused mess. Yes we have basics that we should all keep our eyes on but there are just to many contraindications to make so many of these so called firm rules just hard to believe. The hard and fast rule of no more than 20% protein rule is just one of those such rules, Now we are hearing about sugar all the time, well all carbohydrates are converted to sugar so how can we believe that a high carb diet is the preferred diet? I think it is all a balance. I say the same to those who are vegan or vegetarian, that only works with artificial vitamin supplements if you believe that you need certain things that you just can't get from plants alone. I have no problem with someone doing that because they don't believe in killing animals to survive, but at the same time it is not a simple thing to do correctly, and I might add that most don't do it very well.
Even if you only limit yourself to the JAMA you will find this is happening all the time, Studies that either have opposing views or many times when something is given as a studied clinical trial that is later reversed. There are so many unknowns and so many unknown interactions that can take place it is just a confused mess. Yes we have basics that we should all keep our eyes on but there are just to many contraindications to make so many of these so called firm rules just hard to believe. The hard and fast rule of no more than 20% protein rule is just one of those such rules, Now we are hearing about sugar all the time, well all carbohydrates are converted to sugar so how can we believe that a high carb diet is the preferred diet? I think it is all a balance. I say the same to those who are vegan or vegetarian, that only works with artificial vitamin supplements if you believe that you need certain things that you just can't get from plants alone. I have no problem with someone doing that because they don't believe in killing animals to survive, but at the same time it is not a simple thing to do correctly, and I might add that most don't do it very well.
This is insanely optimistic. While some do have it, way more others have nothing but two capacitors, and possibly a smaller value cap just before the output stage.
While I have no doubt you do install a filter or two, do not assume many others do that as well. I would expect people like you, John, Demian, Pavel and a few others here to do your homework properly, but again, do NOT assume many others do.
On the practical side, there truly can be odd effects when any two power line filters are placed in series. I've heard some such oddities, and there's no telling how many more there are out there.
In my view, the most unpredictable of all power line filters ("conditioners") are those using tranformers because you REALLY have to know your transformer to know what it will do under these or those circumstances. In addition to the fact that transformers of say 2 kVA made of good materials are very expensive, may start tu hum, and God forbid, saturate.
And another purely practical view: using a single filter for everything may stop junk from the grid from getting in, but will not stop muck interchanged by whatever is attached to its output. This may or may not be problems, but it will happen. Therefore, the only full size solution is having parallel filters for every device at the output, this will stop any attempted interchange as well.
Exactly.
Although, in absolute terms, fooling around with wall sockets is dangerous by default
When you clean up the incoming voltage/current, your electrolytics are offloaded from doing that and free to act much more as energy storage.
Think of it this way. Your input stage CCS PSRR is say 80 dB. Fine, but what's your baseline? If you feed it off a pair of capacitors? What happens if you then add a full electronic voltage stabilizer, which by default acts as a filter, perhaps a not so strong one, but nevertheless? Is its PSRR factor, small as it may be, added to those 80 dB?
Nonsense.
It is NOT AT ALL the same what comes into your PSU because unless you are willing to lay out some heavy money for a whizz-bang stabilizer, your hash supression factor is what it is relative to what comes in. If you start dealing with problems before they even get to your power transformer, the rest will have to deal with much less trouble and hash.
Do you seriously think all that line borne hash does not influence the normal operation of your power transformers? And therefore everything else that follows it?
A good line filter is, of course, a cost/benefit compromise. It is not as good a solution as an ultra quality power regulator, but then it doesn't cost as much and doesn't take up as much space as an ultra regulator. You may even make one, such as say Walt Jung's models, and that's fine for preamps, CD players and tuners, all of which use 10-20 VA at worst, but what about your power amplifiers, which will need a lot more?
Agreed. 20 A/230 VAC at least. These are pretty hard to come by, but are not very expensive once you find a source.
They used to be easy to find, Buerklin sold them, but their original manufacturer, the French company Radiohm, no longer makes them. It seems they sold their technology to a Czech company, which now makes them, and which look and measure exactly the same, only their ABS plastic shielding is no longer blue, but is brick red.
Measure wherever you like, I guarantee that with a good line filter you will get better results even intially.
You may want to fiddle around a bit more and by reshuffling your internal PSU you may well get even better results.
That's like saying: "My car will run on 89 octane ptrol." It may well do, in fact it probably will do because their ECUs are flexible, but put in Euro Super +, which is 98 octanes of better (Shell's V Power Racing is 100 octanes) and you WILL discover that your car actually does go better and uses less fuel to boot because its ECU will, once again, adapt as much as it can, which is 95 octanes worst case.
SY, it ALWAYS matters what comes in, although overall the results may vary, some will do better to much better, others will not do as well.
This isn't gas, that's not a particularly good analogy. I use a simple Corcom line filter and my circuits are dead nuts quiet, enough so that visiting audiophiles often remark on that. The secrets are good power supply design, circuits with good PSR, and proper layout and grounding. No need for crutches.
Ah, but you do use a power line filter?
Why don't you tell us what your PSU measures without and with that filter? That would be good to know.
BTW, I never even suggested, let alone said, that a power line filter replaces or simplifies the PSU work - of course it doesn't, it simply makes a good PSU do even better by lowering the baseline.
And it isn't crutches. What will you feed an athlete, healthy diet food or energy stuffed meat?
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