Could well be, i'm always quite careful to layout the context, but the fellow who ended up with them likes them just fine, so it is something i am sensitive too -- Chris thou had similar feelings.
The Fostex FF125 & FF165 have a hint of the same issue.
The JX92 is almost universally liked, i'd recommend trying to get a listen and make your own call. Every person has their own set of things they can live with or not.
dave
Well, I hate to say it, but I had a similar reaction to the last pair of JX92Ss I heard ~a year or so ago. So I can certainly understand Dave's comments if the pair he bought were in any way similar to those I heard.
And to stall any possibile complaints to the effect of 'Jordan-bashing' (which I might add smacks of sour grapes that a sacred cow has come in for some criticism), I am perfectly familiar with the JX92S, and I like it well enough, providing it's used as it's supposed to be. I've heard many pairs, on multiple occasions in the past, and that last pair wasn't right, period, despite a lengthy break-in. So the only conclusion I can reach is that either both Dave & I were unlucky and heard duff pairs at the time, or possibly both came from the same manufacturing batch, which itself wasn't up to scratch. YMMV; I'm not going to speculate further. As as semi OT aside, I'd also concur with Dave's assessment of the Fostex FF125K; if anything, he's understated it, although personally, I find the FF165K to be a pleasent enough listen.
And to stall any possibile complaints to the effect of 'Jordan-bashing' (which I might add smacks of sour grapes that a sacred cow has come in for some criticism), I am perfectly familiar with the JX92S, and I like it well enough, providing it's used as it's supposed to be. I've heard many pairs, on multiple occasions in the past, and that last pair wasn't right, period, despite a lengthy break-in. So the only conclusion I can reach is that either both Dave & I were unlucky and heard duff pairs at the time, or possibly both came from the same manufacturing batch, which itself wasn't up to scratch. YMMV; I'm not going to speculate further. As as semi OT aside, I'd also concur with Dave's assessment of the Fostex FF125K; if anything, he's understated it, although personally, I find the FF165K to be a pleasent enough listen.
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I'd be happy to do a direct comparison between Alpair and 92s if someone wants to send me one of each.
Praxis and Sound Easy are 2 packages that can be used for the measurements. Either one with calibrated mics.
Drivers are very similar so let's see how they differ. I can also do Fostex if one is interested. Nothing personal here, just technical as SY said.
Praxis and Sound Easy are 2 packages that can be used for the measurements. Either one with calibrated mics.
Drivers are very similar so let's see how they differ. I can also do Fostex if one is interested. Nothing personal here, just technical as SY said.
Thanks Sy. All seems a bit more friendly now. 
Hmm. If you were going to do the aforementioned, it'd have to be the Alpair 10 & the JX92S to be of relevance of course as they are the ones of comparable pistonic area. I haven't got the gear to confirm it, but my suspicion, knowing both drivers well, is that they're similar in non-linear distortion, while the A10 edges it in linear. The balance of the drivers is different though, so if you want to make a test, I'd probably hang fire until the Mk.2 Alpair 10 comes along shortly. Fostex don't have any comparable units, so while interesting as a 'control' perhaps, it wouldn't be likely to tell us much.
Hmm. If you were going to do the aforementioned, it'd have to be the Alpair 10 & the JX92S to be of relevance of course as they are the ones of comparable pistonic area. I haven't got the gear to confirm it, but my suspicion, knowing both drivers well, is that they're similar in non-linear distortion, while the A10 edges it in linear. The balance of the drivers is different though, so if you want to make a test, I'd probably hang fire until the Mk.2 Alpair 10 comes along shortly. Fostex don't have any comparable units, so while interesting as a 'control' perhaps, it wouldn't be likely to tell us much.
BTW, regarding the top end of the JX92S (and bearing in mine that my units are original Vifas) I have found them much more amplifier sensitive than the JXR6.
Both sounded good with a Naim amplifier but the JX92 made a couple of Tripath Class-D amps sound thin and over-sharp (this was the original T-amp and a Teac AL700 amp).
Both sounded good with a Naim amplifier but the JX92 made a couple of Tripath Class-D amps sound thin and over-sharp (this was the original T-amp and a Teac AL700 amp).
JxR6 split off to new thread
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/74508-jim-griffins-jx92s-designs-17.html
dave
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/74508-jim-griffins-jx92s-designs-17.html
dave
possible improvement in treble ( for those who don't mind taking risks )
If you take the faceplate off of the Aurum Cantus G2si and make a new faceplate with a suitable sized & shaped cutout so that the rectangular (ish ) body of the ribbon tweeter fits through it and mounts flush with the front, it sounds better - not only clearer but also cleaner - in fact very nice indeed !
There is a slight rise in output in some regions, so some may want to tweek the X-over . . . but to my ears it still sounds just fine with the original published x-over.
Of course this means that the ribbon is not now protected with a grille so each will have to decide if this mod is for them but if you don't mind taking the risk it is possible to reproduce quite sublime, smooth & natural sounding treble.
I'll post pics when I have made mine look a bit more presentable
mike
If you take the faceplate off of the Aurum Cantus G2si and make a new faceplate with a suitable sized & shaped cutout so that the rectangular (ish ) body of the ribbon tweeter fits through it and mounts flush with the front, it sounds better - not only clearer but also cleaner - in fact very nice indeed !
There is a slight rise in output in some regions, so some may want to tweek the X-over . . . but to my ears it still sounds just fine with the original published x-over.
Of course this means that the ribbon is not now protected with a grille so each will have to decide if this mod is for them but if you don't mind taking the risk it is possible to reproduce quite sublime, smooth & natural sounding treble.
I'll post pics when I have made mine look a bit more presentable
mike
Hi,
I intend to build the Griffin's minimonitor. I am not an expert (I can just copy) so forgive me for the basic question.
I have problems in finding some components for the crossover with the exact design value.
In particular I can find for L2 0.33 mH instead of 0.30;
4.7 or 5.6 microF instead of 5.1 for C2 and 3.3 ohm instead of 3 for R2.
Are they OK or should I find exactly the design values?
In addition I realized that there are very expensive capacitor, the Mundorf Mcap supreme for instance are 4 times more expensive than Mundorf mcap standard! Is it worth to go for the more expensive ones?
Thank you for your help
Renato
I intend to build the Griffin's minimonitor. I am not an expert (I can just copy) so forgive me for the basic question.
I have problems in finding some components for the crossover with the exact design value.
In particular I can find for L2 0.33 mH instead of 0.30;
4.7 or 5.6 microF instead of 5.1 for C2 and 3.3 ohm instead of 3 for R2.
Are they OK or should I find exactly the design values?
In addition I realized that there are very expensive capacitor, the Mundorf Mcap supreme for instance are 4 times more expensive than Mundorf mcap standard! Is it worth to go for the more expensive ones?
Thank you for your help
Renato
For my prototypes I purchased components that are in the middle of the price range for each items. Not too cheap yet not too expensive. The merit of expensive parts isn't worthwhile in my opinion.
For alternate part selection I suggest within 10% of the nominal values is OK. While parts within 5% tolerance would be better, your sources may not be able to satisfy this criteria without undue search.
Good luck on your build and I hope that you are pleased with your new speakers.
For alternate part selection I suggest within 10% of the nominal values is OK. While parts within 5% tolerance would be better, your sources may not be able to satisfy this criteria without undue search.
Good luck on your build and I hope that you are pleased with your new speakers.
Jim
I'm currently building your JX92/Ribbon IB design.
This will be pentagonal 3/4" ply cabinets lined with 7mm ceramic tiles for stiffness - a recipe which has worked quite nicely in the past.
Question please - did you use air or ferrite cored inductors in the bass section (it isn't obvious to me from your design pack)? Previously in listening tests I have preferred ferrite cored inductors in the bass section of two way designs but I'm not necessarily set on that this time.
When they are finished I shall compare them with my rebuilt/modified ESL63s so I'm curious to see how they fair!
Tim
I'm currently building your JX92/Ribbon IB design.
This will be pentagonal 3/4" ply cabinets lined with 7mm ceramic tiles for stiffness - a recipe which has worked quite nicely in the past.
Question please - did you use air or ferrite cored inductors in the bass section (it isn't obvious to me from your design pack)? Previously in listening tests I have preferred ferrite cored inductors in the bass section of two way designs but I'm not necessarily set on that this time.
When they are finished I shall compare them with my rebuilt/modified ESL63s so I'm curious to see how they fair!
Tim
Tim,
Great to hear that you are building the JX92s/ribbon speakers. I still use my speakers as daily listeners so I'm still pleased with the results.
I used air cored inductors in my prototype speakers so I really have no baseline for suggesting or using ferrite cored units.
Best of luck on your project and let us know how they sound.
Jim
Great to hear that you are building the JX92s/ribbon speakers. I still use my speakers as daily listeners so I'm still pleased with the results.
I used air cored inductors in my prototype speakers so I really have no baseline for suggesting or using ferrite cored units.
Best of luck on your project and let us know how they sound.
Jim
Jim
The mini monitors are now finished, with laminated steel inductors in the bass section, Ansar supersound polypropylenes everywhere, bypassed in the treble with small film/foil PIO and Teflons. Measured values are spot on. The 0.3mH inductor is air cored but with a slightly higher dcr than is indicated by your 20AWG figure so I have resized the resistor in series correspondingly as I assume it's the total resistance here that matters.
The boxes are sealed. Subwoofers are set for 85Hz.
Listening to them I'm pretty impressed with their speed and apparent precision. Your comments in the design pack with regard to retaining the coherency of the full range Jordan unit are much In evidence too. Ditto for 'lightning in a bottle'!
I lived with the full range Jordan Eikona/VTL for a year before returning to my much loved electrostatics for their effortlessness and openness in the treble, much as I admired the coherency of the Eikonas. These ribbon monitors come closer to the ESLs and sound more polished than the Eikonas.
I'd like to try film/foil capacitors in the treble section at some point but the Ansars will do for now. I have a pair of Fountek Neocd3.0 ribbons which might be interesting to compare. By my reckoning the ribbon and associated resistors present a 10R load to the crossover treble section, so resizing them to account for the change in sensitivity and retain the 10R load to the crossover seems a good place to start. Your thoughts on this would be much appreciated. In the meantime thank you for making this design available. There's definitely a synergy between Jordan/Aurum Cantus!
Tim
The mini monitors are now finished, with laminated steel inductors in the bass section, Ansar supersound polypropylenes everywhere, bypassed in the treble with small film/foil PIO and Teflons. Measured values are spot on. The 0.3mH inductor is air cored but with a slightly higher dcr than is indicated by your 20AWG figure so I have resized the resistor in series correspondingly as I assume it's the total resistance here that matters.
The boxes are sealed. Subwoofers are set for 85Hz.
Listening to them I'm pretty impressed with their speed and apparent precision. Your comments in the design pack with regard to retaining the coherency of the full range Jordan unit are much In evidence too. Ditto for 'lightning in a bottle'!
I lived with the full range Jordan Eikona/VTL for a year before returning to my much loved electrostatics for their effortlessness and openness in the treble, much as I admired the coherency of the Eikonas. These ribbon monitors come closer to the ESLs and sound more polished than the Eikonas.
I'd like to try film/foil capacitors in the treble section at some point but the Ansars will do for now. I have a pair of Fountek Neocd3.0 ribbons which might be interesting to compare. By my reckoning the ribbon and associated resistors present a 10R load to the crossover treble section, so resizing them to account for the change in sensitivity and retain the 10R load to the crossover seems a good place to start. Your thoughts on this would be much appreciated. In the meantime thank you for making this design available. There's definitely a synergy between Jordan/Aurum Cantus!
Tim
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Following up on my last post and after more listening...
Highly articulate and resolved, fine burnished detail, wide open and seamless.
The surprise for me is just how well they hold their own against my ESLs. On the listening I've done so far (in a medium sized but not large room)it would be a tough call to choose one over the other.
Tim
Highly articulate and resolved, fine burnished detail, wide open and seamless.
The surprise for me is just how well they hold their own against my ESLs. On the listening I've done so far (in a medium sized but not large room)it would be a tough call to choose one over the other.
Tim
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