Hi Arthur,
I've used a pair of AN super 8s in the past, ran them in (painfully), and I can't recommend them.
It all depends on what sound you are looking for. They can't handle complex music (orchestral, rock e.t.c.) but are almost OK for small ensemble e.g. jazz, and voice.
Then again, it turns out that I have not found a speaker with a whizzer cone that I like.
Just another opinion (they're a dime a dozen!!).
David
I've used a pair of AN super 8s in the past, ran them in (painfully), and I can't recommend them.
It all depends on what sound you are looking for. They can't handle complex music (orchestral, rock e.t.c.) but are almost OK for small ensemble e.g. jazz, and voice.
Then again, it turns out that I have not found a speaker with a whizzer cone that I like.
Just another opinion (they're a dime a dozen!!).
David
Wow, that is a really loaded question.
Since the room is such an important part of any system, the (trick) answer may (or may not) be what you are looking for. Took a bit of thinking to come up with this answer...
the uFonken
to help eliminate room size, positioning, and listening location the speaker needs to have little bass, not be able to play that loud at the best of times, and have superior dispersion...
Now if we consider the intent of your question, and working on a mix of experience, theory, & gut, the best answer is probably the half-changs (lower case c), with the edge going to the smaller drivers (ie Suzy, Popeye*, Brynn, Freddie, Half-Chili, Half-Chang (bigC) in that order). smaller drivers/boxes will be less sensitive to listening position at the sacrifice of how loud & how low.
Of those my personal pick would be Popeye (aka half-Olivia) with FE127eN.
*(http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1617646#post1617646)
dave
Since the room is such an important part of any system, the (trick) answer may (or may not) be what you are looking for. Took a bit of thinking to come up with this answer...
the uFonken
to help eliminate room size, positioning, and listening location the speaker needs to have little bass, not be able to play that loud at the best of times, and have superior dispersion...
Now if we consider the intent of your question, and working on a mix of experience, theory, & gut, the best answer is probably the half-changs (lower case c), with the edge going to the smaller drivers (ie Suzy, Popeye*, Brynn, Freddie, Half-Chili, Half-Chang (bigC) in that order). smaller drivers/boxes will be less sensitive to listening position at the sacrifice of how loud & how low.
Of those my personal pick would be Popeye (aka half-Olivia) with FE127eN.
*(http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1617646#post1617646)
dave
arthur Thompson said:
Scottmoose said:
I agree. Cables should be one of the last things you worry about.
I did a SPICE analysis of simple cables vs "audiophile cables".
http://diyaudioprojects.com/Power/DIY-Braided-Speaker-Cables/
12Ga zip would be very similar to the DIY cables. Change in FR is negligible, with about 1 degree or 2 in the phase. Zip cord is fine for speakers, just use the right length. The worse thing you can do is use a long cable and coil it up.
For power cables, looks at all the IEC cables you have. If you are lucky, a few of them will be shielded, this is more common in the older cables. This won't really help sound, but they are useful if line level interconnects are near by.
Cheers
arthur
All speakers suggested so far may either satisfy you or drive you mad. How to tell? The only way to know is to have the speakers in your room and listen. Don't worry about electronics or cables, do worry about where the speakers can go and where you are going to sit. Carpets, furniture, wall hangings etc all affect the sound bigtime. Basically there will be some speakers that will suit your room and your tastes, others won't.
Reading mags and advice from other folk is always dicey as no one knows your room or your tastes. A sad fact is the chances of getting it right with home made speakers are very very slim unless you want to spend a lot music time trying to get (what could be a bad fit for your room) to sound OK. This is the brutal truth. The joy of building your own speakers can be rewarding but requires an investment of time, money and you need knowledge. If you just want to listen to a good sound then audition some speakers in your room and buy the best you hear. If you later want a change you will be able to sell them, not easy with homemade gear. Don't be put off but be realistic.
All speakers suggested so far may either satisfy you or drive you mad. How to tell? The only way to know is to have the speakers in your room and listen. Don't worry about electronics or cables, do worry about where the speakers can go and where you are going to sit. Carpets, furniture, wall hangings etc all affect the sound bigtime. Basically there will be some speakers that will suit your room and your tastes, others won't.
Reading mags and advice from other folk is always dicey as no one knows your room or your tastes. A sad fact is the chances of getting it right with home made speakers are very very slim unless you want to spend a lot music time trying to get (what could be a bad fit for your room) to sound OK. This is the brutal truth. The joy of building your own speakers can be rewarding but requires an investment of time, money and you need knowledge. If you just want to listen to a good sound then audition some speakers in your room and buy the best you hear. If you later want a change you will be able to sell them, not easy with homemade gear. Don't be put off but be realistic.
fredex said:
You are so pessemisstic... he can stand on all the work done by others. It might take him a few tries to dial into what suits him, but it is doable... and what diy speaker builder ever stopped at one set?
It is a system... a speaker can't be considered separately from what drives it.
dave
gmilitano said:
I beg to disagree with your statement:
" The worse thing you can do is use a long cable and coil it up."
It's far worse to use a short cable that won't reach!
This has been documented so many times that it is viewed as as a Law of Physics and is often referred to as "Olson's Iron Law of Disconnected Wiring"
Seriously, I've heard some of the old timers coiling their wire as a method of reducing RF interference, I've never had a problem with RF so I can only mention it in passing.
Best Regards,
TerryO
I believe most of what fredex said, and thanks for saying it, I sort of knew that room, positioning and musical tastes were huge factors but never gave them the thought they deserved.
My posts so far have been made on the assumption that what you said has been taken into account up to a point and that with enough expert advice and consideration I could still manage to get a system I was happy with within my budget.
I haven't listened to much hi-fi so I have no particular taste but it seems everyone who has built single driver fostex speaker boxes has agreed they sound good for the money.
The only try-out able speakers in my budget are things like: wharfedale diamond 9.1s, klipsch synergy bookshelfs, energy c-100s etc.
But I have to say, I was planning on only building one pair of speakers, and if I go to that much effort It would be sad if they didn't work with the room or my listening position, or if I couldn't hear them okay when I occasionally listen while at the computer.
My posts so far have been made on the assumption that what you said has been taken into account up to a point and that with enough expert advice and consideration I could still manage to get a system I was happy with within my budget.
I haven't listened to much hi-fi so I have no particular taste but it seems everyone who has built single driver fostex speaker boxes has agreed they sound good for the money.
The only try-out able speakers in my budget are things like: wharfedale diamond 9.1s, klipsch synergy bookshelfs, energy c-100s etc.
But I have to say, I was planning on only building one pair of speakers, and if I go to that much effort It would be sad if they didn't work with the room or my listening position, or if I couldn't hear them okay when I occasionally listen while at the computer.
Well, last I checked, manufacturers don't know your room either. The only advantage is that you could try out a couple in advance (if you were lucky). OTOH, a diy setup will allow you to either design something, or pick something which is designed for roughly similar circumstances to your own.
The blunt fact is that the room completely dominates below about 200Hz. As such, most of us do in fact keep an eye on the room etc., when making any suggestions. 16ft x 12ft x 10ft is a reasonably sized space & similar to a lot of UK lounges, like my own downstairs (albeit a little wider), so providing no awkward shapes & decor is not similar to either an ultra-minimalist bunker or an anechoic chamber, there's a lot of flexibility there for possible speaker designs. If it bothers you, ideal is something very directional, which will reduce the influence of the room somewhat.
The blunt fact is that the room completely dominates below about 200Hz. As such, most of us do in fact keep an eye on the room etc., when making any suggestions. 16ft x 12ft x 10ft is a reasonably sized space & similar to a lot of UK lounges, like my own downstairs (albeit a little wider), so providing no awkward shapes & decor is not similar to either an ultra-minimalist bunker or an anechoic chamber, there's a lot of flexibility there for possible speaker designs. If it bothers you, ideal is something very directional, which will reduce the influence of the room somewhat.
Has anyone got an opinion on the Hemp Acoustics FR8
2001 Space Odyssey Monolith?
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-hemp.asp
I hope it's not just a gimmick
2001 Space Odyssey Monolith?
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-hemp.asp
I hope it's not just a gimmick
"...it seems everyone who has built single driver fostex speaker boxes has agreed they sound good for the money."
In addition to the ANs, I've tried the Fostex FE206e's, and I found them worse- totally unlistenable. (But then they're whizzered!!)
Once again just one opinion amongst umpteen.
David
In addition to the ANs, I've tried the Fostex FE206e's, and I found them worse- totally unlistenable. (But then they're whizzered!!)
Once again just one opinion amongst umpteen.
David
, so unless your speakers are overly bright.........
arthur Thompson said:
Well, I don't see where 'decent volumes' was ever defined and it varies enough among folks that it doesn't tell me much of anything, but considering the low power amp being considered it can't be any louder than the ~60 dB/listening position average that folks typically watch prime time TV at and still maybe have enough dynamic headroom left for your uncompressed music if the listening distance is relatively close. Obviously, the more efficient the drivers and/or the more compressed the music, the louder the average SPL can be.
You can mount any driver on an OB, but there's no 'replacement for displacement' down low, so if you want any bass you're going to need multiple drivers, so probably beyond your budget.
OBs sound so different from box speakers that you just have to compare them yourself to see if the generally more open/natural sounding OB is worth the price you pay in size/$$$/LF dynamics. A ~best of both worlds is an OB 'FR' + super tweeter and some type of LF box speaker, but probably beyond your budget to do it right, though this could be configured to fit your computer desktop with the right drivers.
Getting surround sound from a pair of point source speakers while you walk around the room is problematic at best and an exercise in futility at worst without careful room treatment unless you give up the bass line to keep from unduly exciting room modes as Dave suggested, but that's a high price to pay IMO. Might as well buy some B0$3 cubes and spread them around the room.
Having a room a bit bigger than yours, I know what it takes to have truly room filling sound and nothing I've seen proposed so far will do it, much less on ~15 low distortion watts and ATM can't think of anything that will with your budget.
My solution has been and will continue to be large corner loaded horns since they meet all your criteria including loud, but again, not with your budget AFAIK.
Then again, there use to be a forum member that became disenchanted with his FE108ES? BLHs and in his quest to ~replicate my system's dynamics yet retain the sound of his little 'FR' drivers, he built a corner loaded compression horn by simply building a sealed cab designed to fire into the wall/floor apex, then put the Fostex in a little sealed cab and let the side walls control horizontal directivity. IIRC he used a high $$ prosound JBL driver for the mid-bass horn driver, but there's less expensive drivers that will work, though don't know what you can get within your budget locally. Anyway, just a thought.
GM
What blh that would work is closest to my budget?
For simplicities sake would a BIB design be an ok compromise?
If you scrap my criteria is there anything that would really amaze in it's own regard?
I'm not really set on anything I just want an interesting project that I can use.
Thanks for the help
For simplicities sake would a BIB design be an ok compromise?
If you scrap my criteria is there anything that would really amaze in it's own regard?
I'm not really set on anything I just want an interesting project that I can use.
Thanks for the help
arthur Thompson said:
Arthur,
The BIB designs are well regarded by those that have built them, both for sound and for ease of construction. It's a pretty simple design and will give abundant output if used in corners or even up against the wall. It can be as inexpensive as you want, or you can choose from more expensive drivers still within your budget.
Frankly, one of the best speakers that I've heard recently was Jon Ver Halen's Lowther/Tone Tubby open baffle speaker at the last VSAC.
It's not cheap and would still need a Subwoofer, but it's about as good as it gets, IMHO.
Best Regards,
TerryO
Not knowing what drivers you have available, I've no way to venture a guess.
I hate to keep being the bearer of (potentially) bad news, but your 10 ft ceiling means no max loading for a BIB with the driver at ~seated ear height, but then when you're walking around the room I imagine they're going to be too low, so possibly a compromise would be a low Fs driver/low tuned one which will put the driver a bit high, then angle it down a bit as a compromise between the two extremes. That, or make them unfolded to get the mouth within a foot or so.
Really, the best choice if no horns are used to project the sound-stage out into the room is to suspend speakers from the ceiling. Now you can have huge width OBs if you want without compromising your pacing room if you're not a giant.
GM
I hate to keep being the bearer of (potentially) bad news, but your 10 ft ceiling means no max loading for a BIB with the driver at ~seated ear height, but then when you're walking around the room I imagine they're going to be too low, so possibly a compromise would be a low Fs driver/low tuned one which will put the driver a bit high, then angle it down a bit as a compromise between the two extremes. That, or make them unfolded to get the mouth within a foot or so.
Really, the best choice if no horns are used to project the sound-stage out into the room is to suspend speakers from the ceiling. Now you can have huge width OBs if you want without compromising your pacing room if you're not a giant.
GM
I'm not quite sure i know what you mean about 'low tuned' or 'unfolded', could I make the hemp fr8 monolith bib and sit it up on something with it angled down, that way if I move to lower ceilings some time it would still work?
Would I be better off building the spawn family box for the fr8?
cheers
Would I be better off building the spawn family box for the fr8?
cheers
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