Class D amps
That's unfair. These amps produce 250watts into a 4 ohm lod. They require a 2volt input into a 10K load impedance. The price of these amps is 60.00 GBP each and the switching regulator that goes with it is 40.00 GBP each. The only thing you need is a 35-0-35 trans @7A. For what they do, they are cheap.
Ricky
soongsc said:
Now you know what the amps really cost. When you actually buy them they will tell you another story to justify the price.
That's unfair. These amps produce 250watts into a 4 ohm lod. They require a 2volt input into a 10K load impedance. The price of these amps is 60.00 GBP each and the switching regulator that goes with it is 40.00 GBP each. The only thing you need is a 35-0-35 trans @7A. For what they do, they are cheap.
Ricky
Re: Class D amps
Just pulling your leg. When you listen to engineers, they talk material cost, when you listen to sales, they talk list price. There is a significant difference.
I seldom hear about switching regulators that use transformers. Why is this one different? Maybe there is a writeup on it somewhere?
Ricky said:
Just pulling your leg.
When you listen to engineers, they talk material cost, when you listen to sales, they talk list price. There is a significant difference.I seldom hear about switching regulators that use transformers. Why is this one different? Maybe there is a writeup on it somewhere?
soongsc said:
I know that Panasonic do. There are digital amps from Harman Kardon, they probably also use them, I don`t know. Meanwhile there are similar chips made by Sony and chips from a newcomer, Wolfson Microelectronics (they have an EQ on board to solve the problem of the load-dependent frequency response, which all switching amps without feedback have).
Hi folks,
I just changed my 12AWG 15' monster speaker cables used as make shift interconnects for something new.
Remember how I was in agreement with Bruno's paper? What I agreed with was what I could comment on. That is, while the cable was hugely microphonic, at a scary level, instead of opting for foam cups and magic beads, I realized plugged into a source with low output impedance was all that was required, zero microphonic affect heard after that.
Now I can further agree with Bruno's article since I've changed the wires.
I got microphone cable as he recommended.
Not 600$ for 2' stuff, as far as I'm concerned the $1.10/foot I paid was hugely overpriced considering the junk it is.
In fact I owe radio scrap for a good laugh because the bulk cable is marked as being directional Now that I've terminated it, it is directional, but otherwise, nnnnnnnah. They just did that so they could print "high performance directional balanced cable" on the label, looks better with another big word, if you don't know any better. Nexxtech junk.
Anyway, cheapest stuff I could find that met my expectation, it's not even 100% cotton insulation but 50% nylon, likely with a cheap PVC jacket, and a cheap foil shield.
I'm driving the UCD balanced now with 25' of it per channel.
Whereas before the monster cable was hugely microphonic to the slightest touch while not plugged into the pre amp, and not at all when plugged in, this stuff, you pretty well have to grab a good coil of it and whip it at the wall just to get a faint sound from the speaker with it unplugged from the pre-amp. A very large improvement. Still, the main thing is to have a low output impedance on your source.
I think it safe to say one can file cable microphonics under snake oil sales myths and move on without the foam cups and suspended wires etc.
Cheers,
Chris
I just changed my 12AWG 15' monster speaker cables used as make shift interconnects for something new.
Remember how I was in agreement with Bruno's paper? What I agreed with was what I could comment on. That is, while the cable was hugely microphonic, at a scary level, instead of opting for foam cups and magic beads, I realized plugged into a source with low output impedance was all that was required, zero microphonic affect heard after that.
Now I can further agree with Bruno's article since I've changed the wires.
I got microphone cable as he recommended.
Not 600$ for 2' stuff, as far as I'm concerned the $1.10/foot I paid was hugely overpriced considering the junk it is.
In fact I owe radio scrap for a good laugh because the bulk cable is marked as being directional
Now that I've terminated it, it is directional, but otherwise, nnnnnnnah. They just did that so they could print "high performance directional balanced cable" on the label, looks better with another big word, if you don't know any better. Nexxtech junk.Anyway, cheapest stuff I could find that met my expectation, it's not even 100% cotton insulation but 50% nylon, likely with a cheap PVC jacket, and a cheap foil shield.
I'm driving the UCD balanced now with 25' of it per channel.
Whereas before the monster cable was hugely microphonic to the slightest touch while not plugged into the pre amp, and not at all when plugged in, this stuff, you pretty well have to grab a good coil of it and whip it at the wall just to get a faint sound from the speaker with it unplugged from the pre-amp. A very large improvement. Still, the main thing is to have a low output impedance on your source.
I think it safe to say one can file cable microphonics under snake oil sales myths and move on without the foam cups and suspended wires etc.
Cheers,
Chris
Long and unshielded (or with a weak shield) cables are a good antenna, they will capture interferences and noises very easily, even more so when unterminated.
You change this for a cable with a good shield, and connect it as semi-balanced.
Of course it picks much less noise.
Now I'm asking, as I asked some pages ago: what's this have to do with microphonics?
Nothing.
I don't get it.
You change this for a cable with a good shield, and connect it as semi-balanced.
Of course it picks much less noise.
Now I'm asking, as I asked some pages ago: what's this have to do with microphonics?
Nothing.
I don't get it.
I don't know if the original subject of this thread is still being debated--but I will note for the record that The Absolute Sound has given its 2005 Editor's Choice Award to the NuForce Class D amp.
And the Hypex UcD is better than the NuForce in every measurable parameter I have seen.....
Mark
And the Hypex UcD is better than the NuForce in every measurable parameter I have seen.....
Mark
I won't say anything about his, I've never heard nuforce amps before.
The only thing cool about those amps is the SMPS.
I'm totally happy with UcD400 running my main speakers now, and I don't mind the size of the transformer and PS.
However, with a "good sounding" SMPS I would consider changing all my channels to UcD, and in the future run extra "zones" in other rooms with them.
PS. For a commercial unit, the Nuforce is taped together inside... literally! It's ugly! Check the output coil (if it is a coil) and the flimsy cabling from module->coil->speaker posts.
Can't believe the reviewer is doing blah blah about sibilance that he improved with better interconnects, and at the same time ignores the layout of the amp! (while he shows it in the article!)
Check here
The only thing cool about those amps is the SMPS.
I'm totally happy with UcD400 running my main speakers now, and I don't mind the size of the transformer and PS.
However, with a "good sounding" SMPS I would consider changing all my channels to UcD, and in the future run extra "zones" in other rooms with them.
PS. For a commercial unit, the Nuforce is taped together inside... literally! It's ugly! Check the output coil (if it is a coil) and the flimsy cabling from module->coil->speaker posts.
Can't believe the reviewer is doing blah blah about sibilance that he improved with better interconnects, and at the same time ignores the layout of the amp! (while he shows it in the article!)
Check here
Nuuk said:
If that is the case Chris, then some pretty respectable reviewers are being taken in big-time by the VertexAQ products!
Do I understand that you use 25 foot interconnects, or was that just for the benfit of testing your theory?
If reduced microphonics is their only claim to shame, I'd have to say so.
I know you gave them a plug, and I dont' know enough to have formed an opinion on the sort of reviewer you happen to be, I'll just say present company accepted. However, some acclaimed "respectable" reviewer couldn't tell a certain amp was only working at half power... You're going to tell me they can talk about microphonics? I'll be the sceptic there.
I've also seen reviewers taken in by obvious gimmick products like those from Shakti. One must also ask, respected by who?? Those who dont' know, those for whom they sell?
Have you yet had the experience of someone who is technologically deficient quote you garbage that they took for gospel out of some stereo review magazine? Let me tell you it's hell because it makes them feel like they know something and they prefer to keep repeating it mindlessly than to think you may know differently. I guess it would be easiest to sell them a gimmick and rape them of their cash than to try to educate them which I must say is a numbing experience.
From where I sit cable makers have the snake oil market cornered, with no shortage of consumers. What do you suppose the profit margin is on some of these ~1000$ meter long wires? Even at that it's _still_ not good enough because in order to give the cable a chance to work it's "magic" you need to prop it up off the floor on 300 dollar a pop hockey pucks.
I've no doubt at all some wires will sound better than others, I dont' think microphonics are to thank for it, and I don't think a 1000% profit margin is justifiable, unless perhaps they're hand woven by virgins dancing under a full moon.
Fine line between audiophile and audiophool I think, and a large part of the market thrives on this, reviewers alike.
Should we not strive to dispel such foolishness at every oppertunity, or perhaps there's a higher interest in capitalizing upon it.
Actually, they're more like 28', I intend on trimming them up once the amp is completly finished, it wasnt' done to make a point. The bigger joke was in using 12awg monster cable in the first place, but one makes due.
Regards,
Chris
Yves Smolders said:
Great point you have there
I noticed another amp builder/cable maker that made the most basic mistakes in the build of their amp and display a proud picture of it on their homepage, will no problems making you such an amp and a 1000$ cable to plug it in with. If you want to know who email me and I'll tell you.- Status
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