Believe it or not, bass is the most complex and subtle part of a music signal. Getting a floor tom right, in terms of reporduction is likely the most difficult part of all, when tuning a crossover on a 3 way speaker. THis is because it is a combination of a bass low freq fundamental, then the skin shimmer and ring- both skin, stick and the 'pop' off the drum body itslef. (low treble, about 5-20db down complex mix in spots) and then back down to the fundamental. Timing is everything, in that note. Thus, low clock jitter plays a VERY big part in getting bass 'right' in a CD player. Ported speakers are flawed in their phasing of fundmentals and that phasing has the nerve to shift all over the place, throughout the dynamic presentation of that given bass note. It becomes obvious that...all they present for bass..is garbage. total hash. I won't even listen to one.
I created a circuit for passive crossovers that dynamically shifts phasing under dynamic load to correct treble phase distortion under load and create greater agreeance with what the top of the mid-woofer is doing. I tune it by hand, by listening for the phase alignment. All tweeter crossovers were totally PO'ing me to no end -until I hit on that solution.
Apparently, there is a guy who used to design A-T microphones and the like, who has done something similar, and is now selling finished speakers. Apparently, they sound good. I know where there is a pair, I should go and take a listen. I'd love to pop the hood on the crossover, though. That would tell me everything I need to know.
I created a circuit for passive crossovers that dynamically shifts phasing under dynamic load to correct treble phase distortion under load and create greater agreeance with what the top of the mid-woofer is doing. I tune it by hand, by listening for the phase alignment. All tweeter crossovers were totally PO'ing me to no end -until I hit on that solution.
Apparently, there is a guy who used to design A-T microphones and the like, who has done something similar, and is now selling finished speakers. Apparently, they sound good. I know where there is a pair, I should go and take a listen. I'd love to pop the hood on the crossover, though. That would tell me everything I need to know.
Hello,
I've been using balanced power for 10+ years. Wouldn't run my system any other way. I agree with the sonic descriptions already presented.
My opinion is, if properly applied, balanced power creates a return path that is isolated from any of the system grounds to a very nice sonic effect. In my system this attribute is more important than the isolation between the primary and secondaries. Noise circulating on system grounds is a very interesting topic.
My transformer sports 1700 watts with bifilar wound secondaries, square cross-section wire and a faraday shield. I run the whole system from one transformer.
A 240 volt system (120/0/120) is similar if you use the 0V (gnd) as the return path for the noise filtering of the AC line. To my mind its high impedance as the frequency goes up and the noise riding on it because it's the return path for every appliance being power by the lines could compromise it's performance, although I used this approach previously.
Disclaimer: I experimented at length using my ears and system as a manual simulation program. (very low-tech)
My two cents. Mike.
I've been using balanced power for 10+ years. Wouldn't run my system any other way. I agree with the sonic descriptions already presented.
My opinion is, if properly applied, balanced power creates a return path that is isolated from any of the system grounds to a very nice sonic effect. In my system this attribute is more important than the isolation between the primary and secondaries. Noise circulating on system grounds is a very interesting topic.
My transformer sports 1700 watts with bifilar wound secondaries, square cross-section wire and a faraday shield. I run the whole system from one transformer.
A 240 volt system (120/0/120) is similar if you use the 0V (gnd) as the return path for the noise filtering of the AC line. To my mind its high impedance as the frequency goes up and the noise riding on it because it's the return path for every appliance being power by the lines could compromise it's performance, although I used this approach previously.
Disclaimer: I experimented at length using my ears and system as a manual simulation program. (very low-tech)
My two cents. Mike.
hhmmm. I've never floated my ground. My balanced 'ground' is connected to the shield in the transformer, and the primary ground. The benefit seems to be the same, in terms of clarity gained, with the extra stability of a true ground. something in me refuses to float the ground, even though I spoke directly with the gentleman who designs the transformer I have and he also supervises their manufacturing.
He told me that the halves are very closely matched and that the 30Kva rating is actually the same when run balanced, as he said they may have someone do exactly that, so the transformer is WAY over-speced. "What do you expect for a $8k line conditioner in the 600lb range, especially when it's used on 1/2-2-5 mil cat scanners, medical gear, etc?", He said. In the balanced mode, it's capable of being put between my panel, and the electrical line coming in. And this is a electrically heated house. 200 amp panel. Wow, I says. Might be enough current capacity to not blunt transients, then. Clean bass.
All I know, is I have my own transformer on the power company's pole outside, and this transformer far outweights it.
When I bought a topaz off ebay, wired it for balanced, and liked what I heard.... I was so excited I even ended up buying other 250lb transformers for friends. and wheeling them over to their houses..and making them take them!
He told me that the halves are very closely matched and that the 30Kva rating is actually the same when run balanced, as he said they may have someone do exactly that, so the transformer is WAY over-speced. "What do you expect for a $8k line conditioner in the 600lb range, especially when it's used on 1/2-2-5 mil cat scanners, medical gear, etc?", He said. In the balanced mode, it's capable of being put between my panel, and the electrical line coming in. And this is a electrically heated house. 200 amp panel. Wow, I says. Might be enough current capacity to not blunt transients, then. Clean bass.
All I know, is I have my own transformer on the power company's pole outside, and this transformer far outweights it.
When I bought a topaz off ebay, wired it for balanced, and liked what I heard.... I was so excited I even ended up buying other 250lb transformers for friends. and wheeling them over to their houses..and making them take them!
Hi Tom:
The transformer is 1kVA and it was made by a local transformer manufacturer, following my specifications. You're correct - the bifilar secondary does give the best degree of noise cancellation. However, the secondaries in my projects are not bifilar-wound because I didn't know how good the isolation of the magnet wire was, which is important because the voltage between the adjacent wires is 115V. Anyhow, the disbalance between the secondaries is under 1% all the way up to 1kHz. At higher frequencies, though, the disbalance rises due to parasitic capacitance.
Regards,
Milan
The transformer is 1kVA and it was made by a local transformer manufacturer, following my specifications. You're correct - the bifilar secondary does give the best degree of noise cancellation. However, the secondaries in my projects are not bifilar-wound because I didn't know how good the isolation of the magnet wire was, which is important because the voltage between the adjacent wires is 115V. Anyhow, the disbalance between the secondaries is under 1% all the way up to 1kHz. At higher frequencies, though, the disbalance rises due to parasitic capacitance.
Regards,
Milan
poobah said:
Hi poobah:
You're correct - they are. They are part of the high-current power filter I built for the power conditioner you saw at the website. The Epcos are known (at least in my part of the world) for their high-quality stuff for power filters (chokes, X2, Y caps, etc.). Here's a better look at them.
More info about the filter itself is
here .
Regards,
Milan
My big problem with filters, is that the "system" you are powering with the transformer and filter network, also needs to 'mirco' push that source power around too...so it may do it's job properly.
What I mean is the micro changes in system power draw are critical to proper presentation of a given music signal. If the audio system's power supply can 'see' the filter system, then it too will 'react' to it ---and the music can suffer. Does anyone understand what I mean, here? I have found that the exceedingly large majority of AC source PS filtering systems tend to damage the music, just about as much as they improve it. Trade offs. As you know, when that diode is conducting, noise comes straight through. Under that understanding, the transistor that is looking at that DC rail, and the signal that is looking back at that conducting transistor..the whole chain can see that AC filter as well.
What I mean is the micro changes in system power draw are critical to proper presentation of a given music signal. If the audio system's power supply can 'see' the filter system, then it too will 'react' to it ---and the music can suffer. Does anyone understand what I mean, here? I have found that the exceedingly large majority of AC source PS filtering systems tend to damage the music, just about as much as they improve it. Trade offs. As you know, when that diode is conducting, noise comes straight through. Under that understanding, the transistor that is looking at that DC rail, and the signal that is looking back at that conducting transistor..the whole chain can see that AC filter as well.
KBK said:
Any introduction of a filter/power conditioner into an audio system must be carefully thought out first. In my experience, it is only the output amplifier that may be affected to a certain extent by a higher network impedance caused by the filter. It is often ignored that the current which the amplifier draws from the network is not sine-shaped (in most cases; picture below) and that it has a complex harmonic structure that needs to be preserved (intact) after the introduction of the filter. Otherwise, the sound of the amplifier may be impacted. Also, the peak value of the current is several times larger than it may normally be expected based on "Ohm's law", which is another thing that should be kept in mind.
Regards,
Milan
KBK said:
The balanced power advantage will greatly depend on the local mains quality. I found it as a trade off as well, and while some aspects of the musical presentation were improved, the others (mostly immediacy) have been compromised. To me it was a trade off and I choose not to use a balanced power configuration in my location.
When AC power is good, then it's good. If it's not good, it's almost impossible to fix it.
Peter Daniel said:
Where do you get good AC power these days? Not in most locations I've lived and worked in. If it's not the noise it's the age of the distribution system that gets you.
I also have to disagee with you as to the immediacy being compromised. I don't care to get into a discussion on simantics, but from my experience, and I've experimented a lot with this, there is no impact to the basic life of the music. What is most noticable when a balanced transformer is inserted into a system is a very noticable drop in the hash (for lack of a better term) that is part of the background or air of a clean recording (and a good system). Improvements elsewhere in the spectrum are more dependant on the relative to the quality of the power feed to the system.
I suppose implementation differences must account for our different perceptions, but transformer quality has a lot to do with it.
This is definitely a listen for yourself type system addition. IMO.
Mike
I've always thought that you could use a 1 to 1.1 or sumpthin' transformer and then the right combination of L and C,and thus, make a tracking regulator system that lives off the slight change in phase from the L and C. I dunno. You'd have a very low power loss and low thermal issue regulated AC. Call me crazy. I never bothered to analyse it further than that. oh dang. Works until you draw nasty power. (audio equipment) ug.
MikeBettinger said:
Again, I'll have to agree. Although I happen to live in a new building with 230 Vac power supplied from a recently constructed power substation in the close vicinity of the building, I've also experienced this "drop in the hash" Mike is referring to. As a result, the music appears to sound slightly cleaner and punchier than before, which is a good thing in my book. I can't say I've noticed any detrimental effects so far.
Regards,
Milan
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