I’ve seen a lot on the Internet from people who claim that with the right room setup of speakers and listening position there is a certain magic in sound that can happen.
Despite listening on decent equipment for a long time I had never heard it before myself, and wasn’t even sure it existed. That was until last Saturday when I was listening to the Met Opera live broadcast of Rigoletto on FM radio.
During the intermission between the first and second acts I moved my speakers quite a bit further apart. The second act started and initially there was a small difference, but nothing very dramatic. Then I changed my listening location to the apex of the triangle connecting to the two speakers.
And voilà. There it was. A sudden, unmistakable, and hugely dramatic change to the music. Now Roberto Frontali appeared to be 12 feet in front of me in my living room and sounding entirely different than before. His voice was full, rich, and melodic with great vibrato that hadn’t been there before. It was much more real and musical.
If I moved my head too much away from that new listening position he sounded entirely different. Just like before everything was changed
And although the imaging was definitely better, that wasn’t really the main thing that was so dramatic to me. It was the outstanding change in sound quality that I didn’t expect and really enjoyed. It was like nothing I had every heard from this system before. I think that I really did finally hear the ‘magic’ that people talk about.
Maybe plenty of others have had this experience and perhaps I’m just behind the times. But it was finally what I’ve been hearing about and now I really don’t want to be without it. Unfortunately, I can’t maintain this configuration in the living room. It doesn’t pass the WAF.
I’ve been planning to convert a bedroom anyhow to just my listening room and that is where the magic will have to take place. It’s a much smaller room and I’m not sure I can make it happen there, but I’m sure going to try. Now I’m spoiled.
My concern, however, is whether I can achieve this again with multi-way speakers that I am planning for the new room. Right now I'm using a pair of AN 10" Classic full range drivers and they have excellent coherence. In my new listening room I intend to replace them with a 2-way configuration and will probably loose some of that coherence. I'm not sure how much that might change the magic that I've just experienced and want to preserve.
Any comments would be welcome.
Despite listening on decent equipment for a long time I had never heard it before myself, and wasn’t even sure it existed. That was until last Saturday when I was listening to the Met Opera live broadcast of Rigoletto on FM radio.
During the intermission between the first and second acts I moved my speakers quite a bit further apart. The second act started and initially there was a small difference, but nothing very dramatic. Then I changed my listening location to the apex of the triangle connecting to the two speakers.
And voilà. There it was. A sudden, unmistakable, and hugely dramatic change to the music. Now Roberto Frontali appeared to be 12 feet in front of me in my living room and sounding entirely different than before. His voice was full, rich, and melodic with great vibrato that hadn’t been there before. It was much more real and musical.
If I moved my head too much away from that new listening position he sounded entirely different. Just like before everything was changed
And although the imaging was definitely better, that wasn’t really the main thing that was so dramatic to me. It was the outstanding change in sound quality that I didn’t expect and really enjoyed. It was like nothing I had every heard from this system before. I think that I really did finally hear the ‘magic’ that people talk about.
Maybe plenty of others have had this experience and perhaps I’m just behind the times. But it was finally what I’ve been hearing about and now I really don’t want to be without it. Unfortunately, I can’t maintain this configuration in the living room. It doesn’t pass the WAF.
I’ve been planning to convert a bedroom anyhow to just my listening room and that is where the magic will have to take place. It’s a much smaller room and I’m not sure I can make it happen there, but I’m sure going to try. Now I’m spoiled.
My concern, however, is whether I can achieve this again with multi-way speakers that I am planning for the new room. Right now I'm using a pair of AN 10" Classic full range drivers and they have excellent coherence. In my new listening room I intend to replace them with a 2-way configuration and will probably loose some of that coherence. I'm not sure how much that might change the magic that I've just experienced and want to preserve.
Any comments would be welcome.
Nice to hear you reach new levels of enjoyment, realism, and enthusiasm!
I think you've described what I believe is the 'dilemma of stereo'.
It really only works well on the speakers' equilateral triangle axis.
And ironically IME, the better the speakers are at imaging and creating a 3D soundstage, the more necessary it is to be on apex.
Whenever I hear folks talking about a wide stereo sweet spot, I tend to think they have very good frequency/power response that stays even off apex.
But when folks talk specifically about stereo imaging and soundstage, I think of good time domain response...which unfortunately can only be focused/occur at apex.
My 2 cents
I recently moved my listening room from a small bedroom to a much bigger room. In the small room the speakers and i either come to close to the walls or to close to the center of the room, and small movements had a huge impact on sound quality. With the bigger room the "zones" within the room that sounds neutral are larger. And there is also room for lot of stuff in the room, lot of stuff within the room is good for sound quality. Slap your hands and listen to the decay.
Just a thought for the new room. I have had luck in smaller rooms not putting the speakers along the same wall but rather placing the speakers centered around a corner so you are looking into the corner while listening. It elimates the otherwise close early reflections off the side walls in a small room, and also seems more forgiving of speakers being close to the wall. Spending a few hours finding proper positioning is without a doubt extremely important. It changes everything.
the diagonal speaker positioning is certainly worth trying in a small room but also the opposite side-wall placement (Beveridge):
- a useful spreadsheet from Linkwitz website
- reflections in Beveridge speaker placement according to the spreadsheet
Yes, there was about 15 degrees of toe in. These 10” drivers start beaming at about 1,300 Hz. So without the toe in I doubt that I would have achieved the magic.
I don’t have schematics for either room drawn.
The living room is about 15’ x 30’ with an 8’ ceiling and one side completely open to a large two story entry way. There is carpet in the 15” x 30’ part and lots of upholstered furniture. The entry way portion is all tile and glass. Overall it is odd shaped and a mix of absorbent and reflective surfaces. But not much point in pursuing it any further, since I can’t control speaker or listening positions properly here.
The bedroom that I plan to use instead is only 11’ x 12’ with an 8’ ceiling. It is carpeted and there will be a chair or small couch for listening against the 11’ back wall. I can bring the speakers out from the front and side walls as much as needed.
Sure there is magic. It is locked inside of the recording(s) and it is our job to get it out
The OP has prove of it now, let the hunt begin! Good story, but why not start with the same speakers in the new listening room? They did a good job, right?
True, they did a good job on the opera broadcast, but that was largely with the singers voices. I wasn't really paying that much attention to the orchestra at the time.
I'm not completely satisfied with them in general for listening to symphonic music, which is what I do most of the time. Being full range drivers I think they are somewhat lacking for complex large scale music. At least that's what people have written and I tend to believe it based on my experience with these speakers. So my plan is to replace them with a good two way alternative. Currently considering one of Bagby's designs - Kairos, Adelphos, or Mandolin.
Which brings me back to my question. How much of the 'magic' that I experienced was made possible by the excellent coherence of the full range drivers. And can I expect the same thing to happen with two way speakers if placed properly. Or will their lesser coherence compromise the magic.
So back to my main question again. How much of this experience was made possible by the excellent coherence of the full range drivers?But when folks talk specifically about stereo imaging and soundstage, I think of good time domain response...which unfortunately can only be focused/occur at apex.
My 2 cents
In others words, if I had used a pair of two way speakers with comparable frequency response, but lesser coherence, could I have realistically expected the same listening experience. And I'm not talking just about the imaging and soundstage. The most dramatic change to me was the richness, fullness, and depth of the music itself.
That's probably a tough question to answer with any great degree of certainty because it obviously depends on the specific two way speakers. But I'm interested in a general case sort of opinion. The reason is to decide whether to make an investment in a new set of speakers or just stick with what I have now.
Thanks.
Last edited:
If this is the first time, you have heard the magic welcome
Now you may realise what a lot of people on here, diyaudio are doing to further enhance your experience.
Congrats
Enjoy you may have just touched the iceberg
Try playing with horns and dsp and you may become an addict
Thanks. I actually have a miniDSP, but haven't put it into use yet. Need to settle down the room move and any speaker changes first. I haven't thought much about horns, but will look into it.
I'm really curious about how many of the people here have actually heard the magic. Maybe most have and I'm in the minority, but not many others actually talk about it much given it's potential impact on your listening enjoyment.
Last edited:
In the event that you can get the ' WAF Master ',
To enjoy the magic, new opportunities will arise ....
I have achieved that "magic" with all sorts of speakers. It's definitely not just for full rangers. But FYI, I have never experienced it with my listening chair near the back wall.
+1 about horns, another revelatory experience when you first hear great horns set up well.
De magic in de herb, mon
I posted about this humorously (?) in Lounge, but cannabis can alter perception including, as Wikipedia notes: " music (especially discerning its various components/instruments)"; [see "effects of cannabis"] I have noted this effect with my system. Listening stoned may not be the preferred solution, but I'm just throwing it out for discussion
I posted about this humorously (?) in Lounge, but cannabis can alter perception including, as Wikipedia notes: " music (especially discerning its various components/instruments)"; [see "effects of cannabis"] I have noted this effect with my system. Listening stoned may not be the preferred solution, but I'm just throwing it out for discussion
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.