I thought it was a very rational account and it leads me to want to look at the Hypex or other Class-D modules. Do you have some specific issues you want to point out in his reasoning? Otherwise I (and I think most other readers) will just disregard your post.
It IS correct. Now please stop shouting.
That's just an awful comparison. You're still comparing diy to a finished unit. Let's look at the completed hypex unit, the MidimonO Amplifier. It's $1200, less than 1/2 the price, but still isn't cheap.
If by, weighs a ton, you mean less than 30 lbs, you're right on. If by measly 25 watts, in pure class A, yeah. 50 watts in AB. More than enough for my 100dB speakers.
Actually the distortion during complex passages was entirely noticeable. Driving ESL 63s, a fairly demanding loudspeaker.
Easily. Parmetal chassis, antek transformer, components from digikey, and heatsinks from barredboss.
Not really. I think the F5 was a rather straightforward build. Our Audio group did a massive "F5 build" project, and people who had never soldered before didn't have a single problem. Weekend project.
180 Watts with 15% switching distortion. Youch.
Really? Double-blind?
I did not. I'd be interested in hearing some though. Anybody in the TC?
Sweet. Enjoyment is what's important.
Wait, you're not doing double-blind listening?
That's a fair statement, but like both the OP and myself have stated, I don't want to buy and build every amp under the sun.
Yes, they are. See above.
That does not sound like fun. I'd rather hang out, listen to gear, chat with my friends, and listen to more gear. The idea of "critical listening" is absolutely antithetical to enjoyment. To say nothing can be gained from these settings is just wrong. Unfortunately, I found that my F5 was not the best sounding amplifier that day...
Why Sir, for $50 more per side you'll get 200W at <0.1% total distortion.
(ok, i'm biased)
I've also wondered about this, how they would compare if efficiency is ignored.
Currently I'm wondering about an amp for my subwoofer, the sub is high efficiency and rated at a maximum of 45W RMS while actual load would probably be in the range of 1-5 W at most so the efficiency of Class D wouldn't be a requirement in my case. ( The box is 430 litres
)
The sub would cover from 20 hz and crossed with 48db at ~ 40 hz so it would be a sub, and only a sub.
Would Class A have advantages over Class D in this case, or the other way around? ( only sonic performance judged, efficiency is ignored. )
If Class D in this case would be superior or equal it would be nice with the superior efficiency but I wouldn't trade it for lower sonic performance since I don't need so many watts anyway.
P.S. In case anyone wonders about the sub, yeah... the box is 430 litres
Currently I'm wondering about an amp for my subwoofer, the sub is high efficiency and rated at a maximum of 45W RMS while actual load would probably be in the range of 1-5 W at most so the efficiency of Class D wouldn't be a requirement in my case. ( The box is 430 litres
)The sub would cover from 20 hz and crossed with 48db at ~ 40 hz so it would be a sub, and only a sub.
Would Class A have advantages over Class D in this case, or the other way around? ( only sonic performance judged, efficiency is ignored. )
If Class D in this case would be superior or equal it would be nice with the superior efficiency but I wouldn't trade it for lower sonic performance since I don't need so many watts anyway.
P.S. In case anyone wonders about the sub, yeah... the box is 430 litres
@paulb
I found the tone quite superior and developed a niggle that I was reading from someone who didn't know a whole lot on the topic (i'm not being rude, but its quite likely the truth) and had a massive opinion nontheless.
If you found that gigantic post intelligent and useful then great, but i simply don't know if 'other readers' did or not...
Cheers
I found the tone quite superior and developed a niggle that I was reading from someone who didn't know a whole lot on the topic (i'm not being rude, but its quite likely the truth) and had a massive opinion nontheless.
If you found that gigantic post intelligent and useful then great, but i simply don't know if 'other readers' did or not...
Cheers
I dont give class A a second thought.
My own design class AB and class D sound just as good.
Careful design ensures high quality.
Class A is inefficent generates a lot of unnecasary heat.,
Class D potential vs A/AB/B potential
Hi there guys,
I´m also very interested in the varying experiences concerning top of the class D designs and how they compare against other more `classic´ amp topologies.
I have little interest in which subjectively is considered the best. Instead any descriptive explanations on how the different designs are experienced could be very helpful from any who has some experience with different class D and/or other `classes´ of amp designs.
Currently i have an Acoustic Reality ear two which features a pair of ICEPOWER modules spec´ed at 500W/4ohm, supplied by a linear PS with a 400VA toroid and two times two 10000uF 100V caps with a small 2.2 uF cap right before the modules. I also have a two box NCC200 based amp with two 700VA toroids in one box and 4x22000uF Kendeils and the modules in the other box. The NCC200´s have decoupled VAS stage with P/O caps and I have bypassed the output coil with a 0.22R ala naim style. (to me the coil sounded very rough and roll´ed off and had no real treble comming though)
The two amps are quite different, the AR(ICEPOWER) being very clear and seems to feature very little distorion where the NCC200(modded) seems more extended though more distorted and heavy in its presentation. I actually like both, but would really like to get the best from both as one (AR) rythmically seems to sit abit on the music, though very clear, and the other (NCC200) presents with a likable directness though smeared and wolly by comparison.
As i have read alot about the UCD´s i´m quite curious about it and whether it could be made to combine the strengths of the two. Also i like the potential in driving its modulator directly from my NAC82 preamp, if its possible...
Are there other amp designs i should consider, or is the UCD one of if not the very best current designs?
Any comments would be very appreciated
cheers,
Hi there guys,
I´m also very interested in the varying experiences concerning top of the class D designs and how they compare against other more `classic´ amp topologies.
I have little interest in which subjectively is considered the best. Instead any descriptive explanations on how the different designs are experienced could be very helpful from any who has some experience with different class D and/or other `classes´ of amp designs.
Currently i have an Acoustic Reality ear two which features a pair of ICEPOWER modules spec´ed at 500W/4ohm, supplied by a linear PS with a 400VA toroid and two times two 10000uF 100V caps with a small 2.2 uF cap right before the modules. I also have a two box NCC200 based amp with two 700VA toroids in one box and 4x22000uF Kendeils and the modules in the other box. The NCC200´s have decoupled VAS stage with P/O caps and I have bypassed the output coil with a 0.22R ala naim style. (to me the coil sounded very rough and roll´ed off and had no real treble comming though)
The two amps are quite different, the AR(ICEPOWER) being very clear and seems to feature very little distorion where the NCC200(modded) seems more extended though more distorted and heavy in its presentation. I actually like both, but would really like to get the best from both as one (AR) rythmically seems to sit abit on the music, though very clear, and the other (NCC200) presents with a likable directness though smeared and wolly by comparison.
As i have read alot about the UCD´s i´m quite curious about it and whether it could be made to combine the strengths of the two. Also i like the potential in driving its modulator directly from my NAC82 preamp, if its possible...
Are there other amp designs i should consider, or is the UCD one of if not the very best current designs?
Any comments would be very appreciated
cheers,
Most people here don't have a global vision about what is going on with audio across the world.
Exotic high-end is a ridiculously tiny market supported by very few people, very enthusiastic and making a lot of noise but very few. Products are manufactured in tiny quantities and sold at huge prices. Most of that people is already quite old, while new generations don't show any interest in high-end fetichism (love is much better).
Tubes for audio are extinct except in guitar/bass amplifiers where they are still massively in use.
Class A for audio is extinct now. The amount of new products and potential customers is negligible.
High power class AB is going to be extinct soon.
21st century speakers will have built in class D amplifiers and DSP.
Exotic high-end is a ridiculously tiny market supported by very few people, very enthusiastic and making a lot of noise
but very few. Products are manufactured in tiny quantities and sold at huge prices. Most of that people is already quite old, while new generations don't show any interest in high-end fetichism (love is much better).Tubes for audio are extinct except in guitar/bass amplifiers where they are still massively in use.
Class A for audio is extinct now. The amount of new products and potential customers is negligible.
High power class AB is going to be extinct soon.
21st century speakers will have built in class D amplifiers and DSP.
Huh uh ...........
LOL...........
Most people here don't have a global vision about what is going on with audio across the world.
Exotic high-end is a ridiculously tiny market supported by very few people, very enthusiastic and making a lot of noise
Tubes for audio are extinct except in guitar/bass amplifiers where they are still massively in use.
Class A for audio is extinct now. The amount of new products and potential customers is negligible.
High power class AB is going to be extinct soon.
21st century speakers will have built in class D amplifiers and DSP.
And bad sound .............
Oh, yes...
If it's not very heavy it's bad...
If it does not cost several thousand $$$$ it's bad...
If it's not big in size, it's bad...
If it is different from your audio fetish it must be bad...
Listening to music with headphones is bad...
MP3 is bad...
Anything except what you do is bad...
Because you never feel that you have enough self stem. You're always fighting to conquer external confirmation of your trends...
MP3 is like MPEG video. Image quality is far from perfect but this does not make any difference in the way you feel acting. In a movie, you know when a kiss or a caress is real and when it is fake, don't you?
Or are you too busy looking for pixel artifacts?
I don't need you at all to feel when what I do is good and when it isn't.
If it's not very heavy it's bad...
If it does not cost several thousand $$$$ it's bad...
If it's not big in size, it's bad...
If it is different from your audio fetish it must be bad...
Listening to music with headphones is bad...
MP3 is bad...
Anything except what you do is bad...
Because you never feel that you have enough self stem. You're always fighting to conquer external confirmation of your trends...
MP3 is like MPEG video. Image quality is far from perfect but this does not make any difference in the way you feel acting. In a movie, you know when a kiss or a caress is real and when it is fake, don't you?
Or are you too busy looking for pixel artifacts?
I don't need you at all to feel when what I do is good and when it isn't.
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I heard this exact same argument in 1987, when I was young and in love. Now that I am old and fat, I like audio even more. And there will be generations after generation that follow the same path. Old men will forever be the same.
I heard this exact argument in 1977. And yet there are still tube amps galore. Even for cars. Have a look at ebay sometime.
Except in hi end hifi, as it has always been.
I hope so! It already smells bad.
They already do. Just look to the pros.
I'm a scientist. The camera I use in the TEM is limited to NTSC standard, at a bit depth of about 4 bits. It's very difficult to tell what's real or fake with such limited information.
Why would we be on an audio forum if we had no regard to sound quality. If that's the case, I fill my ipod with 128bps mp3 files, plug in my white IEMs and head out the door. Unfortunately, most mp3's give me agita.
Or are you too busy looking for pixel artifacts?
All day, most everyday. When SNR is too low, the information starts to become useless.
All this talk about feeling good and fetishes is making me hungry!
Because we're interested in electronics? Because we're interested in DIY? Because we like to play music?
Because we're suffering from obsessive-compulsive disorder?
You can get sound quality out of a chip. It's built-in. Sound quality is everywhere. There's so much sound quality available some of us have decided that we don't need it all. By obsessing about sound quality you're missing the fun. We sure as hell didn't need it to enjoy music back in 1977.
You sound quality guys. Most of the sound quality guys I ever met couldn't hold a tune. That's why they were sound quality guys, dicking around with the mix unless you rapped their knuckles.
w
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