From the title it looks like "cables". I did think that it was about interconnects, but now it looks like just cables.
Unfortunately the ears are all that matter in quality audio, no amount of measurements can tell you what a system will sound like, only after you are satisfied with the measurements the real measuring can begin.
This is a very flawed opinion.
For quality to matter you need to make sure your system has very low distortion and a very accurate response. Quality is not about a nice roll off on the response curve or something any one person likes to hear. Sound Quality is all about accuracy and low distortion.
Your ears can not pick up distortion levels below a certain dB but measurements can.
Your ears can not pick up that null at 150Hz because the speakers were too close to the wall but measurements can.
Your ears can not pick up that 3 dB peak at 2500Hz but measurements can.
You see anyone that believes their ears are the only tool they need to get in room sound quality is just a fooling themselves.
Yes, we need to enjoy our music and that is what our ears allow us to do BUT to get TRUE accuracy people need to learn how to setup an accurate system.
You ears are only as good as much as your brain lets them be if there are other overriding factors (the love for a specific brand) then your brain will care little about what the ears told it.
Must be a semantics thing, Cables to me have always been interconnections.
I never never hooked up my speakers to a cable (unless they are powered), I have always used speaker wire and called it just that....just wanted clarification.
Also the thread moves extremely fast...amazing considering the debates are circular and have lasted a long time. It just goes to show that the faith side will not move no matter what (just like religion) and the science side just scratches their heads wonder why.
The science side has no reason to want faith in audio. The faith side has no reason to want science in audio. Im with the science side myself and faith is never needed in audio but obviously science has made it possible for the faith side to have great sound...hmmmm. Kind of funny.
I see everybody ragging on Curly now because he disregards the idea of measurement leading to quality and prefers to rely on his ears to tell him what sounds right. 3dB peak at 2500Hz or nor, if he can't hear it doug20 then why does he need to engineer his system to fix it? Why can't he sit back in ignorant bliss and enjoy the music?
Destroyer, Peter Aczel is not one of my favorite authors, as I stated earlier. If you believe his view points, which thankfully very few do (as his circulation is extremely limited vs other audio based magazines). He extremely close minded, IMO, but he has his followers, no doubt.
If like what he preaches, I can not fault that. It is just not anything that jives with my personal experiences. Again no knock if you like his opinions, just not what i have found to be true for me in all cases.
I have that, pretty funny stuff.
The Golden Ear club would have Andre Visser and Curly Woods.
I wonder if they can tune their car by ear too?
More examples of what many of you term "Decorum" and friendly.
Doug those are your opinions and you are of course welcomed to them. All that your comments do is incite rebuttals and then the mudslinging starts. Why not just accept the fact that some do and some don't.
You are impressive with your stance.
I have two questions.
Do you believe that brand name, price influences your listening experience?
Will you ever do a DBT?
More examples of what many of you term "Decorum" and friendly.
Cmon, you can not find humor it it. You don't consider yourself the Golden Ear type?
I wouldn't go quite that far. But Sy can get a bit "dogged" at times. Logic and common sense seem to be his passion. A passion like any other. SY is the logical snapping turtle who won't let go until he gets a logical answer. He doesn't leave us much room for fantasy. But ridicule, I don't see.
Digital better than vinyl.... in this point i have no agreement with the writer
But in other points i agree.
It is interesting...watch, for instance, The Athens Audiophile Club video.... you may see that most of us can visit a Psychiatry hospital and be arrested there ,,,, remaining there for a couple of weeks to receive urgent medical aid.
Here you have a fascinating video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs
regards,
Carlos
But in other points i agree.
It is interesting...watch, for instance, The Athens Audiophile Club video.... you may see that most of us can visit a Psychiatry hospital and be arrested there ,,,, remaining there for a couple of weeks to receive urgent medical aid.
Here you have a fascinating video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs
regards,
Carlos
Last edited:
I thnink we should have more people like Sy in the future on all audio forums because opinion without fact to back it up should be questioned. Maybe they will create the 100% subjectivity forum for those who do not like being questioned
I ask "why not just do the controlled tests?" all the time in different forums and that question is side stepped by 99% of the subjective crowd.
I ask "Does brand name, price influence your experience?" and that question is somehow ignored or deflected by 99% of the subjective crowd.
sigh.....I just want to learn if some people truely can hear the difference in a properly controlled test and I want to also learn if some people can BLOCK price and brand name influences out of their listening experience. I know I can't, I do not know of one person that can honestly do it but hey maybe there is a few out there and they just happen to be posting on this thread
You are impressive with your stance.
I have two questions.
Do you believe that brand name, price influences your listening experience?
No not at all, but maybe someone that is new to high end systems might be I guess.
Will you ever do a DBT?
In my and others views, A/B tests do not allow enough time to determine changes, that are subtle upon first hearing them. My testing in my system is carried out over weeks and weeks. I will never attempt to say that a quick A/B test determines anything. I see no point in it either as I want to listen to what any changes made, with a set of known recordings, that I am familiar with. Any snap decisions are rarely if ever accurate. That to me makes the most sense, rather than put pressure on someone to make choices based upon pass/fail conditions.
I have two questions.
Do you believe that brand name, price influences your listening experience?
No not at all, but maybe someone that is new to high end systems might be I guess.
Will you ever do a DBT?
In my and others views, A/B tests do not allow enough time to determine changes, that are subtle upon first hearing them. My testing in my system is carried out over weeks and weeks. I will never attempt to say that a quick A/B test determines anything. I see no point in it either as I want to listen to what any changes made, with a set of known recordings, that I am familiar with. Any snap decisions are rarely if ever accurate. That to me makes the most sense, rather than put pressure on someone to make choices based upon pass/fail conditions.
Last edited:
Does it make a difference?
Why is it flawed, I've clearly said that "only after you are satisfied with the measurements the real measuring can begin", meaning that you get your flat responses first with measurements but after that is done, the ears must agree. A flat freq response is important in quality audio but after that there are aspects that can only be 'measured' by ear, like detail, focus, ambience etc. This is what make a system sound believable.
Why must my posts be vetted by a mod before they are allowed? This is keeping me from taking active part in conversations. If my posts are being rejected for soem reason I am not told why. Can someone explain the system to me? Will I be granted freedoms after a certain post count is reached or something?
If you want to believe that, I can not argue it. Intention is hard to determine through a computer and monitor.
Just watch the troops come pouring in though if a moderator puts in his thoughts and they can be construed as even remotely distasteful or back-handed in any manner.I do not know SY, I just see what he writes here. That is all that I have to go by.
If we could do that then the thread would be worthwhile. Otherwise it will become a pale imitation of the of the Blowtorch thread but with very few experts of vast experience battling it out! And of course some people do not realize that un-sound-reinforced in performance music is the only reasonable
music for test purposes. Do we really want to replay with true fidelity and minimum distortion music which starts life with 10% + distortion?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.