"
It seems to me all bass in a car has the same frequency, or tone, so it's not very transparent. Don't they often also try to optimise the bass at the car's natural resonant frequency to boost spl a bit more? I think SPL is their main concern, quality not being an issue at all."
ClassD4sure what you are describing here is not a high end car audio install at all. You are describing a SPL compition vehicle. This is a HUGE misconception people make about car audio due to their lack of knowledge in this area. A high end car audio system has much different goals. I think a lot of you would be intrested in the designs behind SQ car audio systems.
Thylantyr
1. I didn't say noone was doing, I said I was surprised to not see more doing it.
2.Cheap power doesn't mean good sound
As for why class A. There are companies that make class A car audio amps. They are just very expensive and or hard to find. The class A amp by tru audio goes for over $3000 (I belive this and all their amps are hand made). I was curious to see if anyone else here has been designing amps like it here on the board.
I wish more of you guys took some time to educate yourselves in all the aspects of audio. There are a lot of great ideas that could be crossed over between audio fields. One that I live in cars that I would like to see at home are fully active systems with individual time delay and eq for each driver.
It seems to me all bass in a car has the same frequency, or tone, so it's not very transparent. Don't they often also try to optimise the bass at the car's natural resonant frequency to boost spl a bit more? I think SPL is their main concern, quality not being an issue at all."
ClassD4sure what you are describing here is not a high end car audio install at all. You are describing a SPL compition vehicle. This is a HUGE misconception people make about car audio due to their lack of knowledge in this area. A high end car audio system has much different goals. I think a lot of you would be intrested in the designs behind SQ car audio systems.
Thylantyr
1. I didn't say noone was doing, I said I was surprised to not see more doing it.
2.Cheap power doesn't mean good sound
As for why class A. There are companies that make class A car audio amps. They are just very expensive and or hard to find. The class A amp by tru audio goes for over $3000 (I belive this and all their amps are hand made). I was curious to see if anyone else here has been designing amps like it here on the board.
I wish more of you guys took some time to educate yourselves in all the aspects of audio. There are a lot of great ideas that could be crossed over between audio fields. One that I live in cars that I would like to see at home are fully active systems with individual time delay and eq for each driver.
Can someone please 'splain what "SQ" refers to in the above posts? To me that refers to a now obsolete matrix quadraphonic format.
People on these forums have grown far too lazy and lean on acronyms, sometimes not so obvious, instead of using the real words. The meaning of many posts is compromised to many as a result.
PSUOFAATT
People on these forums have grown far too lazy and lean on acronyms, sometimes not so obvious, instead of using the real words. The meaning of many posts is compromised to many as a result.
PSUOFAATT
It seems to me with the money needed to build a high quality car system you could build a really high quality home HI-FI system.
Do you think that everyone else around where you drive wants to listen to your music?
Admittingly I used to have a good car stereo system in my former youth. The digital 11 band Alpine (old models) EQ/w adjustable crossover for base; low power input & outputs---2 input ---4 output + 2 sub outs -- was really nice.
It was all stolen.
Do you think that everyone else around where you drive wants to listen to your music?
Admittingly I used to have a good car stereo system in my former youth. The digital 11 band Alpine (old models) EQ/w adjustable crossover for base; low power input & outputs---2 input ---4 output + 2 sub outs -- was really nice.
It was all stolen.
DJNUBZ said:
Thanx for the explanation on SQ. SPL, unlike SQ has actually been a standardized term in all of acoustical science for as long as I can remember. SQ also means square, as in square inches, etc. Unlike SPL, the term SQ is more open to confusion amongst those not from that particular 'hood'.
from www.acronymfinder.com - pretty up to date, even with military acronyms
Acronym Definition
SQ Square
SQ Safety Quotient
SQ San Quentin Prison (San Quentin, CA)
SQ Scalar Quantization
SQ Service Quality (TL 9000)
SQ Shortest Queue
SQ Signal Quality
SQ Significant Quantity (nuclear weapons, fission: IAEA term for the amount of fissile material necessary)
SQ Singapore Airlines
SQ Social Quotient (Van Sloan)
SQ Soldier Qualification (Canadian Forces)
SQ Sound Quality
SQ Space Quest
SQ Squadron
SQ Squeezed (Files)
SQ Stock Quote
SQ Subcutaneous
SQ Subject to Quotation
SQ Superquick
SQ Sureté du Québec (Provincial Police)
Acronym Definition
SQ Square
SQ Safety Quotient
SQ San Quentin Prison (San Quentin, CA)
SQ Scalar Quantization
SQ Service Quality (TL 9000)
SQ Shortest Queue
SQ Signal Quality
SQ Significant Quantity (nuclear weapons, fission: IAEA term for the amount of fissile material necessary)
SQ Singapore Airlines
SQ Social Quotient (Van Sloan)
SQ Soldier Qualification (Canadian Forces)
SQ Sound Quality
SQ Space Quest
SQ Squadron
SQ Squeezed (Files)
SQ Stock Quote
SQ Subcutaneous
SQ Subject to Quotation
SQ Superquick
SQ Sureté du Québec (Provincial Police)
.... well there are plenty of fully active systems out there. ....You dont need individual time delay when the drivers are already in a time correct arrangement. .... you dont need eq for each driver when they are already flat. I would suggest you do some research out on the net. One fairly well known fully active system is the Orion. I also seem to think that the old Quad Electrostat used time delay.
I am not aware of orion home gear but I have heard their car audio products.
I have seen very few time aligned enclosures and the ones I have seen had astronomical prices. I also have yet to see any driver that is truly flat within +/- .5db let alone 3db. There are a few that are close but you deffinately pay a premium.
I have seen very few time aligned enclosures and the ones I have seen had astronomical prices. I also have yet to see any driver that is truly flat within +/- .5db let alone 3db. There are a few that are close but you deffinately pay a premium.
no, this orion This is a diy board, and most of us can easily make a time aligned system with little more effort than a simple flat baffle. I'm just curious, what high end home systems have you heard? top of the line Pioneer??
geewhizbang said:
Good points geewhizbang! I'd like to add, referring to the title of this thread. Perhaps the "why we aren't" is because there are too many of these despicable things on the planet already, so we as DIY'ers know this and are doing something about this problem, i.e. not contributing to it!
I have amused myself on occasion thinking of designing an EMP device that could be in my vehicle and used discretely to shut down a car stereo next to me that was annoying everyone at a traffic light.
Nelson I have to say that seems to be the trend lately but I have found more and more people are finding that they like better quality sound after they have already acheived loud. I remember when I was about 16 and I liked loud bass because it was new to me. Now I like accurate bass that can be loud when the need arises.
I'd just rather have a decent stereo in my house where I can listen to it fully absorbed in the GLORIOUS sound.
I don't listen to music much in my car, as it affects my driving. My Ford Focus stock stereo is rather acceptable, and I added a tube subwoofer to it a while back only to never get around to spending 15 minutes reconnecting it when a wire broke a few months ago. I just don't care that much to have the sub working in the car when my home system does so much better.
I don't listen to music much in my car, as it affects my driving. My Ford Focus stock stereo is rather acceptable, and I added a tube subwoofer to it a while back only to never get around to spending 15 minutes reconnecting it when a wire broke a few months ago. I just don't care that much to have the sub working in the car when my home system does so much better.
I don't think I could get by with a stock system in a car. I don't spend alot of time in the car, but when I do it tends to be in 5 hour stints going home from school, and my imaginary friends aren't quite as good conversation as they were when I was 5.
I find that unless you invest in the car's system or listen to the wy overprocessed, compressed garbage they play on the radio, enjoying music in a car is almost impossible. Run it loud enough that you don't lose all of the quiet moments in road noise and it's disgusting and distorted. Try to keep it within the limits of the system and you lose all of the dynamic range.
It doesn't take much; a simple CD player, some good components that you take the time to place properly, and a cheap well designed amp are all you really need. If you want, throw an 8" sub on the parcel shelf with 100W to it, and you have a system that surpasses most home systems of the same price. At least when the car's off.
I find that unless you invest in the car's system or listen to the wy overprocessed, compressed garbage they play on the radio, enjoying music in a car is almost impossible. Run it loud enough that you don't lose all of the quiet moments in road noise and it's disgusting and distorted. Try to keep it within the limits of the system and you lose all of the dynamic range.
It doesn't take much; a simple CD player, some good components that you take the time to place properly, and a cheap well designed amp are all you really need. If you want, throw an 8" sub on the parcel shelf with 100W to it, and you have a system that surpasses most home systems of the same price. At least when the car's off.
I cannot defend the fact that car accoustic is one of the most 'dissasterous' for installing any audio system. The space is very small, distances from speakers to ear are strange (not even 1 pair has the same distance from the driver's ear), there is glass everywhere (huge reflacting accoustics), very high outside noise (road, engine, etc), the driver is not concentrating because he has to drive etc.
But why there are manufacturer that makes car amp for USD4000-5000? More than the cost of average home amp? There is TRU, Audison (HR100, HV Venti). Japanese manufacturers are also making some exotic amp (even compared to home amp cct) like PHASS RE2. The sound is hard to beat by any average home amp.(I've tested them all. I also have tested Gryphone, Manley, VTL, Gammut, etc in the same soundroom).
I've tested TRU class A (Serial #0004). Yes, Mr.Pass, it cheats on the specs. The supply is +/-80V, but it idles at 13A-12VDC. Maybe it really is a high-biased class AB that makes class A until 25W. Yes, it has fan, but I still cannot touch the heatsink.
(It reminds me. This is a bad thing about car audio manufacturer. Why they likes to cheat so much? Many class B amp said tobe AB or even A. Maybe they "feel" that putting "classA" will attract potential buyer)
Class A amps are not for car audio. It draws so much Idle enery, that can destroy your car's electricity system. Tube gears are also not suitable for car audio. Tubes are fragile with vibrations, can you put it in a car? At least the socket will give you problem. 1month, ok. 2month, ok. more than that it will give you headache.
I've also compared HR100 (car amp) with Mark Levinson in accoustic room, using home speaker. The result.....HR100 sounded better than Mark Levinson. Ahh.... maybe you tought this is imposible, this is bla...bla...bla...
This is the case. Many of Home audiophiles say bad things about car audio, just simply because they havent heard 1 car that sounds good.
Car audio has 2 paths. One is consumer's Boom-boom car (loud car, disco music, annoying everyone)--->this ends up in SPL contest.
But there is what is called SQ car. This is the one that filled with $$$ gears.
Attending CES is also not giving good words about SQ car amp. Many manufacturer showing in CES displayed boom-boom car, for attratracting people. This gives worse impression of SQ car audio.
Maybe you should listen in one of IASCA's world finals SQ car. Just sit there and you will know why there is high quality audio gear with $$$ around.
So please, if you know car audio as your neighbor's son's boom-boom car or your stock radio+2coaxial speaker, just sit back in one good SQ car. It will change your point of view about car audio. At least you will not underestimate car audio without hearing in a good one first.
But why there are manufacturer that makes car amp for USD4000-5000? More than the cost of average home amp? There is TRU, Audison (HR100, HV Venti). Japanese manufacturers are also making some exotic amp (even compared to home amp cct) like PHASS RE2. The sound is hard to beat by any average home amp.(I've tested them all. I also have tested Gryphone, Manley, VTL, Gammut, etc in the same soundroom).
I've tested TRU class A (Serial #0004). Yes, Mr.Pass, it cheats on the specs. The supply is +/-80V, but it idles at 13A-12VDC. Maybe it really is a high-biased class AB that makes class A until 25W. Yes, it has fan, but I still cannot touch the heatsink.
(It reminds me. This is a bad thing about car audio manufacturer. Why they likes to cheat so much? Many class B amp said tobe AB or even A. Maybe they "feel" that putting "classA" will attract potential buyer)
Class A amps are not for car audio. It draws so much Idle enery, that can destroy your car's electricity system. Tube gears are also not suitable for car audio. Tubes are fragile with vibrations, can you put it in a car? At least the socket will give you problem. 1month, ok. 2month, ok. more than that it will give you headache.
I've also compared HR100 (car amp) with Mark Levinson in accoustic room, using home speaker. The result.....HR100 sounded better than Mark Levinson. Ahh.... maybe you tought this is imposible, this is bla...bla...bla...
This is the case. Many of Home audiophiles say bad things about car audio, just simply because they havent heard 1 car that sounds good.
Car audio has 2 paths. One is consumer's Boom-boom car (loud car, disco music, annoying everyone)--->this ends up in SPL contest.
But there is what is called SQ car. This is the one that filled with $$$ gears.
Attending CES is also not giving good words about SQ car amp. Many manufacturer showing in CES displayed boom-boom car, for attratracting people. This gives worse impression of SQ car audio.
Maybe you should listen in one of IASCA's world finals SQ car. Just sit there and you will know why there is high quality audio gear with $$$ around.
So please, if you know car audio as your neighbor's son's boom-boom car or your stock radio+2coaxial speaker, just sit back in one good SQ car. It will change your point of view about car audio. At least you will not underestimate car audio without hearing in a good one first.
I have seen ridiculously overdone systems, with 3 15-inch subs, and a trunk full of high-wattage amps. You can just guess what the young man was doing for a living, and the system was not used as much as for sound as for announcing his presence from about a half mile down the round.
It did not ever clip.
It did not ever clip.
Yeah, you just seen one of those boom-boom car. How can you get even 1 "right" enclosure volume with 15" sub in car? What? there are 3 of them? Is it a truck you are seeing?
No,no,.. you should be in one of those fine SQ amp. Maybe you do not encountered those vehicles much.
The ones that can purchase a good SQ gears are not teenagers. Too many $$$ for them.
The ones who have purchased Mr.Pass AlephX maybe is the one who has good SQ gears in their car. They have the right car, and the budget to built good SQ car.
No,no,.. you should be in one of those fine SQ amp. Maybe you do not encountered those vehicles much.
The ones that can purchase a good SQ gears are not teenagers. Too many $$$ for them.
The ones who have purchased Mr.Pass AlephX maybe is the one who has good SQ gears in their car. They have the right car, and the budget to built good SQ car.
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