A while back, I needed some 6688s, so I called up AES (tubesandmore.com). At the time, 6688's were about $2 per tube. I was told that they has 13 in stock, 12 of which were quads by brand. Additionally, I was informed that they would not pick brands unless I paid an extra dollar per tube. This meant that if I wanted the 12 in quads, I would have to pay an extra $12. I bought all thirteen. Indeed, the sales guy acted like he was totally put out that I would ask for him to sell me anything at all.
Cut to some time later, I wanted some 7722s. I told them, explicitly, that I didn't care what brand they were, but they needed to be the same brand. They said that was fine, and sent me a bunch of singles. I sent them back, paid shipping both ways, and got a refund. Frustrating.
The other day, I called them and said I needed some tubes. For one particular type I said I again didn't care about brand, but they needed to be the same brand and same construction. These particular tubes were on sale for about $35 each (which is what every other vendor sells them for). I was told that for them to check, I would have to pay the non-sale price plus $1 per tube. I asked them to look at my account, at the $1000 I've spent there in the last couple of years, and perhaps find a pair of tubes. He said he wouldn't, but that he'd leave a note to the picker to find a pair. They arrived today, and are indeed made by the same manufactirer, but are structurally quite different.
Additionally, I asked for a pair of another type (these only $20 per). For some reason, he was willing to go pick them himself in this case, but not open the boxes. They are, again, same manufacturer but different construction -- which, quite frankly, could be determined from the different printing on the boxes, but he neglected to tell me that.
Further, I asked for a 12FQ6 (a noval dual triode) and they shipped me a 12SQ7 (a worthless piece of garbage.)
There was one tube, worth $4, they got right. So, $135 later I have a pile of useless tubes, and one good one.
So, the thing is, who are these people that they think I want their castoffs? I understand they are having a sale and that tube boxes can be a pain to look through, but this was not insignificant money, I was not asking for matched pairs of $1 tubes, and I have been a good customer for a while.
I am sure there are plenty of good dealings with AES, and I have had a few myself, but three bad transactions is enough for me. So, I am done with them. The shipping is too slow and too expensive, and if they can't make the extra effort, neither can I. And, the guys are vacuumtubes.net and radio daze are nicer anyway.
Cut to some time later, I wanted some 7722s. I told them, explicitly, that I didn't care what brand they were, but they needed to be the same brand. They said that was fine, and sent me a bunch of singles. I sent them back, paid shipping both ways, and got a refund. Frustrating.
The other day, I called them and said I needed some tubes. For one particular type I said I again didn't care about brand, but they needed to be the same brand and same construction. These particular tubes were on sale for about $35 each (which is what every other vendor sells them for). I was told that for them to check, I would have to pay the non-sale price plus $1 per tube. I asked them to look at my account, at the $1000 I've spent there in the last couple of years, and perhaps find a pair of tubes. He said he wouldn't, but that he'd leave a note to the picker to find a pair. They arrived today, and are indeed made by the same manufactirer, but are structurally quite different.
Additionally, I asked for a pair of another type (these only $20 per). For some reason, he was willing to go pick them himself in this case, but not open the boxes. They are, again, same manufacturer but different construction -- which, quite frankly, could be determined from the different printing on the boxes, but he neglected to tell me that.
Further, I asked for a 12FQ6 (a noval dual triode) and they shipped me a 12SQ7 (a worthless piece of garbage.)
There was one tube, worth $4, they got right. So, $135 later I have a pile of useless tubes, and one good one.
So, the thing is, who are these people that they think I want their castoffs? I understand they are having a sale and that tube boxes can be a pain to look through, but this was not insignificant money, I was not asking for matched pairs of $1 tubes, and I have been a good customer for a while.
I am sure there are plenty of good dealings with AES, and I have had a few myself, but three bad transactions is enough for me. So, I am done with them. The shipping is too slow and too expensive, and if they can't make the extra effort, neither can I. And, the guys are vacuumtubes.net and radio daze are nicer anyway.
I total understand.
When I was a kid a very rich guy, the father of a childhood friend, taught me that if you pay for a service you have the right to be satisfied with what you paid for, and I agree. You vote with your pocket book, Parts connection failed to follow their own shipping terms, resulting in the theft of a package, I don't buy from them or use fedex anymore. That being said, I did just purchase $150 bucks worth of parts from AES because they haven't let me down yet, hopefully they won't. When I had my snafu with Parts Connection I directed them to the forum post where I told everybody about it, I got a refund really quick....just an idea
When I was a kid a very rich guy, the father of a childhood friend, taught me that if you pay for a service you have the right to be satisfied with what you paid for, and I agree. You vote with your pocket book, Parts connection failed to follow their own shipping terms, resulting in the theft of a package, I don't buy from them or use fedex anymore. That being said, I did just purchase $150 bucks worth of parts from AES because they haven't let me down yet, hopefully they won't. When I had my snafu with Parts Connection I directed them to the forum post where I told everybody about it, I got a refund really quick....just an idea
A couple of good questions to ask:
- Is the company a wholesale outfit, or a specialty provider?
- How many people work there?
- How's business been lately?
AES is a wholesale outfit; a lot of people work there; and business has been off for a lot of people due to the economy.
It's common for employees to have short tempers when sales are down, people are being let go, and they're worried they may be next.
Stress is very high and you're asking for special service on sale items without paying the extra charge for it. Most likely you didn't say "pretty please with a cherry on top"! (which may have been appropriate given the above).
Your overall evaluation, however, is correct. It may be time to choose a vendor that specializes in NOS tubes.
AES is still a great place for basic amp stuff.
- Is the company a wholesale outfit, or a specialty provider?
- How many people work there?
- How's business been lately?
AES is a wholesale outfit; a lot of people work there; and business has been off for a lot of people due to the economy.
It's common for employees to have short tempers when sales are down, people are being let go, and they're worried they may be next.
Stress is very high and you're asking for special service on sale items without paying the extra charge for it. Most likely you didn't say "pretty please with a cherry on top"! (which may have been appropriate given the above).
Your overall evaluation, however, is correct. It may be time to choose a vendor that specializes in NOS tubes.
AES is still a great place for basic amp stuff.
I'm sure they use the periodic sales to clear out the odd inventory - and not all of any given number will available at the sale price. I have received obviously used tubes and even some numbers that didn't match the box... but at $1 - $3 each I'm not gonna complain. I would expect OEM brands, mismatched singles, worn boxes... NOS tubes are OLD, and whatever stocks exist have been picked over for years.
I can probably help with a 12FQ7 ( I certainly don't need any more 12SQ7s though... I have about 40 and maybe have 3 radios that use it...)
I can probably help with a 12FQ7 ( I certainly don't need any more 12SQ7s though... I have about 40 and maybe have 3 radios that use it...)
I've had similarly not great experiences buying tubes from AES in the past and therefore generally buy from them only in one offs for things like short wave radio restorations.
I do buy transformers and chokes from them, but little else.
I would consider AES a retail seller not wholesale, their customer base originally was the antique radio restoration crowd.
I order on line, and have not found their help in recent years helpful or pleasant to talk to.. I just avoid the issue. In the old days (previous owners) it was a bit different.
I have much better luck getting my audio tubes on eBay and elsewhere, and sometimes you do have to buy from multiple sources in order to get a set of matched tubes. Annoying, but in a time of dwindling supplies not too surprising - and buying and matching singles will often save you money on rarer types like the 71A for example.
In short I am not a big fan of AES, but don't hate them either, their core market is not really the hifi tweak anyway.
I do buy transformers and chokes from them, but little else.
I would consider AES a retail seller not wholesale, their customer base originally was the antique radio restoration crowd.
I order on line, and have not found their help in recent years helpful or pleasant to talk to.. I just avoid the issue. In the old days (previous owners) it was a bit different.
I have much better luck getting my audio tubes on eBay and elsewhere, and sometimes you do have to buy from multiple sources in order to get a set of matched tubes. Annoying, but in a time of dwindling supplies not too surprising - and buying and matching singles will often save you money on rarer types like the 71A for example.
In short I am not a big fan of AES, but don't hate them either, their core market is not really the hifi tweak anyway.
Re: I total understand.
Well, as I said, I wasn't picking brands, simply requesting pairs. Maybe that's a lawyer's distinction, but it is a distinction never the less. Indeed, they were free to say no and send me to another vendor. Instead, they decided they wanted my business, bargained around the rule, and they said they would take care of it since I was a good, regular customer. This was a negotiation, and generally when one enters into such a thing, one is expected to follow through with the agreement made.
I lived in Firenze for a short time. I don't know if this is true throughout Italy, or even throughout that city, but where I lived there were a couple of fruit stands on the same street. The vendors would not let the customer pick out the fruit (which is how it works in the US) but would instead pick it out for you. The idea was that they knew their stock and would pick out the best fruit for you. If they did a good job, then you would return for the quality and the service. If they didn't, you would go to the next stand down.
On a day to day basis, this is probably costly, but for me, since I bought fruit every morning, I ended up back at the same vendor everyday for months. A nice efficient system as it allows the party with the most knowledge to apply that knowledge rather than forcing decisions on people without knowledge.
I think it is one particular guy. Unfortunately, I don't remember his name, but I have gotten good help from a different sales person. That was last January, so it is hard to know if he is even still there.
These were 71a's, in fact. He told me they had a couple dozen RCA ST's. Maybe I am wrong, but I have my doubts that there are a couple of dozen different RCA ST constructions. Popping the top on the box to make sure the tubes look the same seems reasonable in this case.
targeteye said:
Well, as I said, I wasn't picking brands, simply requesting pairs. Maybe that's a lawyer's distinction, but it is a distinction never the less. Indeed, they were free to say no and send me to another vendor. Instead, they decided they wanted my business, bargained around the rule, and they said they would take care of it since I was a good, regular customer. This was a negotiation, and generally when one enters into such a thing, one is expected to follow through with the agreement made.
I lived in Firenze for a short time. I don't know if this is true throughout Italy, or even throughout that city, but where I lived there were a couple of fruit stands on the same street. The vendors would not let the customer pick out the fruit (which is how it works in the US) but would instead pick it out for you. The idea was that they knew their stock and would pick out the best fruit for you. If they did a good job, then you would return for the quality and the service. If they didn't, you would go to the next stand down.
On a day to day basis, this is probably costly, but for me, since I bought fruit every morning, I ended up back at the same vendor everyday for months. A nice efficient system as it allows the party with the most knowledge to apply that knowledge rather than forcing decisions on people without knowledge.
kevinkr said:
I think it is one particular guy. Unfortunately, I don't remember his name, but I have gotten good help from a different sales person. That was last January, so it is hard to know if he is even still there.
kevinkr said:
These were 71a's, in fact. He told me they had a couple dozen RCA ST's. Maybe I am wrong, but I have my doubts that there are a couple of dozen different RCA ST constructions. Popping the top on the box to make sure the tubes look the same seems reasonable in this case.
I use their web ordering system (easier for me to do at work) and just request 'same brand' when I order tubes.
For 6922s I got a pair of Tungsrams (labelled ProComm / Made in Britain - ha) and on another order I receive a pair of GEs.
Of course I once got a pair of 'same brand' 7119s - both Amperex, but one was U.S. made and the other was made in Holland. Oh well.
For 6922s I got a pair of Tungsrams (labelled ProComm / Made in Britain - ha) and on another order I receive a pair of GEs.
Of course I once got a pair of 'same brand' 7119s - both Amperex, but one was U.S. made and the other was made in Holland. Oh well.
AES is the retail shop. They have a wholesale shop, CE Distribution, that caters to "people in the amp repair, design, and manufacturing" business. The prices are the same on some stuff (Hammond products) to 30% lower on other stuff.
I would guess that sales are off since I now recieve sales calls from CE "reminding me" of specials that they are offering.
It would seem that both outfits have shifted their focus to the guitar and amp market. There are many more guitar related pages in both catalogs than radio of HiFi stuff.
The last batch of 6BQ6's that I got were about 25% bad, some looked well used (little or no getter left, plain white box) but some looked very new, and still didn't work. For 98 cents, I am not going to bother. I have received 3 wrong tubes, wrong number on the outside of the box. This should be easy to get right.
I bought all of their 6LR8's at the $1.65 sale price. They dissappeared from the web site after that sale. 3 weeks later they reappeared at the old price. Mention of certain numbers on the "Tube sale at AES" thread caused the supply to dry up overnight. This time I kept my mouth shut about one number until I get the box that I ordered last week. I might need some more, but I hesitate to order a bunch until I see what I get.
They do have good prices on Hammond, however I did receive a pair of 3 year old 1628SE's when I ordered 1628SEA's once. They said that I could return them if I had not used (soldered or scratched) them. I had to pay the return shipping which was almost $50. They are still on my shelf 2 years later.
Over all I still buy from them, I don't ask for anything special. If I am looking for a unique tube, I will go see Stan (the Tube Center or ESRC). He has about 3 million to choose from, but he is 180 miles away.
D,
Awhile back there was a thread here pertaining to The Tube Center, which is in league with ESRC down in Florida. I have bough a lot of stuff from them, and they have always been very helpful in the all-you-got-of-a-single-brand department. Jack actually told me, 'Let me get back to the warehouse, and I'll tell you what I got.' A day or so later, 'I got RCA, Sylvania, GE.'. I ask him, 'How many RCAs you got? (they're always a good pig'n'a'poke bet)', he tells me, I buy.
No pain, no suffering, odd small signal tubes for $1 to $3 each, no bad vibes, fast shipping.
What's not to like?
Aloha,
Poinz
Awhile back there was a thread here pertaining to The Tube Center, which is in league with ESRC down in Florida. I have bough a lot of stuff from them, and they have always been very helpful in the all-you-got-of-a-single-brand department. Jack actually told me, 'Let me get back to the warehouse, and I'll tell you what I got.' A day or so later, 'I got RCA, Sylvania, GE.'. I ask him, 'How many RCAs you got? (they're always a good pig'n'a'poke bet)', he tells me, I buy.
No pain, no suffering, odd small signal tubes for $1 to $3 each, no bad vibes, fast shipping.
What's not to like?
Aloha,
Poinz
Poindexter said:
I've looked at their website, but never ordered. Next time I think I'll try them.
By the way, any opinion on the Westinghouse 6T4's? I stumbled on a few and have not had a chance to try them yet.
UPDATE: I called AES. They are sending a new set of the 71a's which they have promised will be the same. They are also sending a 12FQ7. I paid for these, though they are not charging shipping. I'll send the ones back that they sent and that'll give me a refund. Hopefully that takes care of things.
For context, it is worth noting that I had ordered a pair of 71a's from the tube depot first with a note that they needed to be the same, or else they should cancel the order. They didn't even bother to make them the same brand. I paid shipping in both directions on that one. Thus, my frustration.
ESRC and TTC are the same company... address and fax are identical, yet different websites and main phone numbers (maybe an identity crisis). They have the 71A-ST for $32... less than the AES sale price, brand is not mentioned.
As for brand names... I've come to the conclusion that I don't like RCA-made 45s or 2A3s, there are better ones in ST glass. It's the internal structure that counts more than the brand name on the base. I've got a NOS/NIB pair of RCA 45s with matching date codes...problem is, one is actual RCA and the other is a Sylvania... completely different internal construction. It was common for manufacturers to use each others stock due to the cost and time for changing the assembly line.
As they are not too far Palm Beach county, maybe they'll let me stop by and take a look around, credit card in hand of course ;-)
Regards, KM
As for brand names... I've come to the conclusion that I don't like RCA-made 45s or 2A3s, there are better ones in ST glass. It's the internal structure that counts more than the brand name on the base. I've got a NOS/NIB pair of RCA 45s with matching date codes...problem is, one is actual RCA and the other is a Sylvania... completely different internal construction. It was common for manufacturers to use each others stock due to the cost and time for changing the assembly line.
As they are not too far Palm Beach county, maybe they'll let me stop by and take a look around, credit card in hand of course ;-)
Regards, KM
They are the same, although I don't know the how or why part.
They used to be in Palm Beach county, Boynton Beach. Stan and his father ran the company then. I went to their warehouse several times.
When the father passed away Stan moved everything to Orlando. The new place is much bigger than the old place and far better organized. Since I was there last Stan said that he rented another warehouse and expanded. Looking at 3 million tubes is awesome.
The new place is 5 minutes from the turnpike near the Orlando airport if you don't go during rush hour.
George,
Thanks for the insight... did not know that. Years ago I use to buy tubes from a guy on the west coast, Dick Gross... D&C Electronics. He had some great stuff (real KT88s)... long before the internet.
I get back back home (Boynton) on Saturday for a couple weeks.... will plan on stopping at ESRC/TTC as I have to pass that way to collect a couple months of ebay purchases from my folks
Regards, KM
Thanks for the insight... did not know that. Years ago I use to buy tubes from a guy on the west coast, Dick Gross... D&C Electronics. He had some great stuff (real KT88s)... long before the internet.
I get back back home (Boynton) on Saturday for a couple weeks.... will plan on stopping at ESRC/TTC as I have to pass that way to collect a couple months of ebay purchases from my folks
Regards, KM
I have had a few problems with CE, the AES parent Co.
Most of the problems I have had are because of the jokers that pull and pack orders.
Wrong sockets shipped
Wrong tube socket retainers.
Wrong Jacks
But what REALLY gets me going is the packing job. Several times they have sent a box with 3 or 4 power transformers and a couple of quads of output tubes.
The tubes were crushed due to lack of "PROPER" packing in a box not actuallty strong enough in the first place.
I had one order show up missing 2 transformers, and the bag of misc components was hanging out through the hole in the box.
The bag has tore, and half the items were missing. When UPS dropped off the package, he parked a couple houses away and hoped I would not see him coming.
At times AES/CE can be great, but sometimes I would swear they hire skid row bums as day labor in packing and shipping.
YMMV
Most of the problems I have had are because of the jokers that pull and pack orders.
Wrong sockets shipped
Wrong tube socket retainers.
Wrong Jacks
But what REALLY gets me going is the packing job. Several times they have sent a box with 3 or 4 power transformers and a couple of quads of output tubes.
The tubes were crushed due to lack of "PROPER" packing in a box not actuallty strong enough in the first place.
I had one order show up missing 2 transformers, and the bag of misc components was hanging out through the hole in the box.
The bag has tore, and half the items were missing. When UPS dropped off the package, he parked a couple houses away and hoped I would not see him coming.
At times AES/CE can be great, but sometimes I would swear they hire skid row bums as day labor in packing and shipping.
YMMV
You may not be far off the mark. There is a large and prominent speaker supplier that I used to visit from time to time. I noticed that everyone there was a little bit... odd. Off center. The guy running the place explained that they preferred to hire ex-cons, parolees, and work-release prisoners.
I have to say that their shipments were always accurate and professional, so maybe he had the right idea.
I have to say that their shipments were always accurate and professional, so maybe he had the right idea.
d,
I haven't tried Westinghouse 6T4s. Jack looked at what he had, and it was the RCAs and one other brand in significant numbers (Sylvania, maybe), and I got all the RCA he had.
One of the requirements of using these non-audio devices is to do our own testing, and we get better pairs and quads from the max number of same-brand tubes. Out of the 169 6T4s I got, I only had 7 or 8 bad tubes, 10 to 15 'flyers', and the rest sorted into better than 1% sets. The 6GK5s, I got 140 Mullards and 200 Hitachis (you can get a nest of those now for $99!), same deal. Great tubes, fab quads, final cost about $3 each. Not counting my time to clean pins and test.
Aloha,
Poinz
I haven't tried Westinghouse 6T4s. Jack looked at what he had, and it was the RCAs and one other brand in significant numbers (Sylvania, maybe), and I got all the RCA he had.
One of the requirements of using these non-audio devices is to do our own testing, and we get better pairs and quads from the max number of same-brand tubes. Out of the 169 6T4s I got, I only had 7 or 8 bad tubes, 10 to 15 'flyers', and the rest sorted into better than 1% sets. The 6GK5s, I got 140 Mullards and 200 Hitachis (you can get a nest of those now for $99!), same deal. Great tubes, fab quads, final cost about $3 each. Not counting my time to clean pins and test.
Aloha,
Poinz
My latest order arrived yesterday. The box contianed about 100 tubes, it had been abused by UPS. It made a very bad glass on glass sound as I picked it up. The tubes were packed by putting a 2 inch layer of heavy brown paper in the bottom, then the tubes then another layer of brown paper. It seems that UPS had manage to abuse the package in a way that caused the individual tube boxes to open and the tubes to come out. 13 tubes were loose and floating around inside the box. Fortunately none were broken but some had bent pins. These tubes did at least look new and in decent shape. I have not tested any yet.
tubelab.com said:
I get those types of results all the time with CE, Same brown paper, same shipper(UPS)
You would think that they would at least double box the stuff knowing the gorilla's at UPS are going to be throwing them around..
I ordered 10 yrds of tolex from them once, BIG MISTAKE.
The box showed up folded in half, one end open and wet inside.
How the heck do they get water in a package during a drought??
Though, I should say that not all packages come in bad shape, It just seems very hit and miss. When I order Jensen Speakers from them KNOCK ON WOOD
every package has been flawless, though they are double boxed.- Status
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