John Westlake also said in recent posts (again) on PinkFishMedia that there should be no place for RCA connectors in modern day Audio ...XLR assures you of noise free connectivity, whereas RCA does not!
There are very good reasons the pro audio world uses balanced connections, and unbalanced RCA connections are one of the best examples of how "hi-fi" is driven by factors that have nothing to do with engineering or even rational thinking.
Having said that, there is no reason unbalanced RCA connections shouldn't be perfectly fine given the constraints I mentioned earlier - normal home use, with reasonable cable lengths, and with properly grounded equipment.
And maybe it wasn't. The NC500 just appears to be an NC400 running at the higher rail voltage of the A700 PSU.... look at the OEM boards of both the NC400 and NC500 and come to your own conclusions. It was a good opportunity for another product line. Using the A700 would have ended up too good for the DIY modules.
I bought two NC400 modules with SMPS1200 PSU a few months ago and had chance to compare these modules with my Cambridge Audio 851A integrated and 851W power amplifiers.
The modules are connected to the balance output of Twister Pair Ivy III with Nichicon ES bipolar/Wima 0.1uf PP (in parallel configuration) caps. My speakers are Kef R700.
NC400 modules sound clean and definitely fast. It drivers KefR700 in aggressive way, I could feel the punch when I listened rock music but it does not mean it is better.
851W which also provides 200W/channel has more extended treble, much better midrange and well bodied bass which goes deeper despite it is not as fast as NC400. The difference in highs are noticeable, NC400's treble rolls off quicky. In my opinion, the biggest difference between NC400 and 851W is mid range and distortion. Human voices are much better with NC400, piano sounds like more "real". When listening classical music, instruments are better separated, more natural and gives more pleasure to listen.
Regarding 851A, it's treble is not as extended as 851W but still better than NC400, midrange is again much better, instruments are separated but the sound is not full bodied like 851W. When you push 851A, distortion rises quickly so NC400 has obvious power advantage.
I disconnected other amplifiers and listened only NC400 for 2 months and I thought the sound improved. I was almost happy with the sound and when I changed the system back to 851w, I immediately noticed the difference. The sound actually did not improve but my ears got used to NC400's sound.
I cannot say NC400 is bad amplifier, it gives different kind of taste but it is definitely not mine. If you listen orchestral music, I can recommend staying out of these modules. Their sound is not natural, instruments are mixed, it is not a total mess but still the difference is there. In my opinion, you can buy better AB class amplifier within same cost. Considering the price of these modules and PSU, I would expect better sound and better quality parts (like better caps instead of cheap Sanwa)
I do not want to start an argument, this is my personal experience and opinion.
The modules are connected to the balance output of Twister Pair Ivy III with Nichicon ES bipolar/Wima 0.1uf PP (in parallel configuration) caps. My speakers are Kef R700.
NC400 modules sound clean and definitely fast. It drivers KefR700 in aggressive way, I could feel the punch when I listened rock music but it does not mean it is better.
851W which also provides 200W/channel has more extended treble, much better midrange and well bodied bass which goes deeper despite it is not as fast as NC400. The difference in highs are noticeable, NC400's treble rolls off quicky. In my opinion, the biggest difference between NC400 and 851W is mid range and distortion. Human voices are much better with NC400, piano sounds like more "real". When listening classical music, instruments are better separated, more natural and gives more pleasure to listen.
Regarding 851A, it's treble is not as extended as 851W but still better than NC400, midrange is again much better, instruments are separated but the sound is not full bodied like 851W. When you push 851A, distortion rises quickly so NC400 has obvious power advantage.
I disconnected other amplifiers and listened only NC400 for 2 months and I thought the sound improved. I was almost happy with the sound and when I changed the system back to 851w, I immediately noticed the difference. The sound actually did not improve but my ears got used to NC400's sound.
I cannot say NC400 is bad amplifier, it gives different kind of taste but it is definitely not mine. If you listen orchestral music, I can recommend staying out of these modules. Their sound is not natural, instruments are mixed, it is not a total mess but still the difference is there. In my opinion, you can buy better AB class amplifier within same cost. Considering the price of these modules and PSU, I would expect better sound and better quality parts (like better caps instead of cheap Sanwa)
I do not want to start an argument, this is my personal experience and opinion.
^^I appreciate your personal opinion, i really do. NC400 should not have rolled off highs tho. This forum is too biased for me to give you any advice. It would end up just talking about me more than your setup, which would be waste of time. But, if the amp is not working in your case, of course you need to stay away from it. I still think, telling others to stay away from NC400 is a different story.
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Peter
Briefly:
Cambridge Audio 851W vs NC400:
NC400:
Faster response, more dynamic
851W:
Better treble
Much better mid-range
Better bass which goes deeper
Instruments are much better separated and sound is more analog
Cambridge Audio 851A vs NC400:
NC400:
Faster, more dynamic and more powerful
851A:
Better highs
Much better mid-range
Instruments are better separated and sound is more analog
Cambridge Audio's sound is peaceful, gives pleasure when you listen orchestral music. NC400's sound is more dynamic, it's fast but it may be found disturbing for some people. It is powerful, easily drives less sensitive speakers.
If you are looking for a new amplifier, you should consider your music choice and the speaker you currently use. If you like orchestral music, opera, etc; I can suggest buying an AB class amplifier if your budget is limited.
Briefly:
Cambridge Audio 851W vs NC400:
NC400:
Faster response, more dynamic
851W:
Better treble
Much better mid-range
Better bass which goes deeper
Instruments are much better separated and sound is more analog
Cambridge Audio 851A vs NC400:
NC400:
Faster, more dynamic and more powerful
851A:
Better highs
Much better mid-range
Instruments are better separated and sound is more analog
Cambridge Audio's sound is peaceful, gives pleasure when you listen orchestral music. NC400's sound is more dynamic, it's fast but it may be found disturbing for some people. It is powerful, easily drives less sensitive speakers.
If you are looking for a new amplifier, you should consider your music choice and the speaker you currently use. If you like orchestral music, opera, etc; I can suggest buying an AB class amplifier if your budget is limited.
I respect everybody's opinion and music taste and I really do not want to start an argument. I just tried to say that better AB class amplifiers can be bought from similar cost.
I totally get that you prefer the sound of the Cambridge Audio amps - we all have our individual preferences - but what does the phrase "sound is more analog" mean?
Would you mind opening your REF600M and looking at the OPAMP reference on Bel Canto's own buffer board ? Might be useful as another step in OP AMP ROLLING saga...
^^I mind opening it. I have bad experiences opening units i have recently bought. People are nitpicking about smallest things, such as if there is a messed up screws. Sometimes the screws are made out of wax. Boggit's amp could be so good, i want to get rid of the Bel Canto. So, i am fine how things are now, without extra risks.
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Analogue sound to me is lush, warmer and more natural. The alternative is 'accurate' but more clinical, which can be fatiguing.
Most Valve amps sound 'analogue' to me
Edit: the problem is as aforementioned by Julf, the SOURCE most likely sounding clinical and the CA amp masking that... But sometimes we have a Source that is practical for us and unlikely to be changed, so the amp choice to partner it is another choice of sonic preference
Most Valve amps sound 'analogue' to me
Edit: the problem is as aforementioned by Julf, the SOURCE most likely sounding clinical and the CA amp masking that... But sometimes we have a Source that is practical for us and unlikely to be changed, so the amp choice to partner it is another choice of sonic preference
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These two subjective observations are readily testable. Grab your free copy of Room Equalisation Wizard and a decent calibrated mic and do a sweep test. I would be very surprised if one indeed went deeper while the treble rolled off quickly in the other. Both amps are better designed than that. But perhaps I am wrong. A few minutes with REW (did I say its free?) would add objective measurement to the discussion.
Or perhaps one really doesn't go deeper and the other doesn't really roll off the treble and the differences you are hearing are just being described improperly.
In that case the much more descriptive adjective "valve-like" would probably be better than saying that a system sounds like something where the sound wave is represented by a continuous variable physical quantity that can be measured...
It is not so easy to express. When you listen Sarah Brightman's solo, she is more alive with more nuance. NC400's sound signature is like I put the speakers behind a curtain. (I exaggerated)
When listening Beethoven, the timbers of violins are more apparent and also you can easily feel that several violins are playing together.
I also noticed something else. When only one or two instruments are playing, distortion is not apparent but when the whole orchestra comes into the action,instruments started to be mixed by the amplifier. I am not sure if the reason is IM distortion.
I still own these modules and I still sometimes listen. 851W draws 160W when there is no sound thus it dissipates too much heat. It is such a pain to use it in the summer.
Yes, I think so but I believe that it is not the only problem. Instruments in the orchestra are not rendered separately. I noticed this problem with some other amplifiers. I have Onkyo TX-NR905 receiver and it has similar problem. I also have push pull 6550 and 805 SE tube amplifiers, I can say they are very good for classical music but their output is weak for R700.
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