bzdang said:
600 dpi is generally pretty good. Color raster images are best when printed at about 1/3rd rez (ie 200 dpi with a 600 dpi plotter, and 100 with 300 dpi plotter (and those look just fine)
Attached is a pic of the 1st Design Jet shipped in western Canada (we delivered it in 1991 or 92) -- now come back to me. It is so old it is just a Design Jet -- no numbers. As far as i know it still works fine, but has been sitting unused for a bit. If i get it functioning, we'll use it for reprinting out-of-copyright sewing patterns.
dave
Attachments
Hi again...
Yup, very decent for it's age. Photos come out pretty yucky (the HP drivers help a bit with color management there), but colour illustrations come out relatively nice. It still holds it's weight in the B&W drafting department. Large looks good, and anything that saves me from pressing a ruler to paper saves my fingers. Ink levels barely seem to move.
Will leave the worn reduction belt in until I notice a related problem, but will be good to have the new one ready... Especially for the rare chance something happens when I'm trying to output a soon-to-be-due school project. Something always happens at the worst possible time....
I'll check the manual again, but doesn't look like the config plot is picky about paper source. From what I remember seeing, the head alignment and measurement function needs a good HQ vellum sheet-fed to work. Haven't needed to use that function yet.
planet10 - heheh... sewing patterns was the only way to bribe my wife into helping carry the thing into the house.
bzdang - shure! would love to take you up on the grease offer. If you're up to it, I'll PMl my address to you and probably easy enough to put a bit in a ziplock and mail it over. I am nuts, but not enough to drive all the way back there with a ziplock... haha
Should be able to have time to run some real work through it next week, hopefully making some nice prints for my portfolio.
Will need to find a good (affordable) paper shop...
Yup, very decent for it's age. Photos come out pretty yucky (the HP drivers help a bit with color management there), but colour illustrations come out relatively nice. It still holds it's weight in the B&W drafting department. Large looks good, and anything that saves me from pressing a ruler to paper saves my fingers. Ink levels barely seem to move.
Will leave the worn reduction belt in until I notice a related problem, but will be good to have the new one ready... Especially for the rare chance something happens when I'm trying to output a soon-to-be-due school project. Something always happens at the worst possible time....
I'll check the manual again, but doesn't look like the config plot is picky about paper source. From what I remember seeing, the head alignment and measurement function needs a good HQ vellum sheet-fed to work. Haven't needed to use that function yet.
planet10 - heheh... sewing patterns was the only way to bribe my wife into helping carry the thing into the house.
bzdang - shure! would love to take you up on the grease offer. If you're up to it, I'll PMl my address to you and probably easy enough to put a bit in a ziplock and mail it over. I am nuts, but not enough to drive all the way back there with a ziplock... haha
Should be able to have time to run some real work through it next week, hopefully making some nice prints for my portfolio.
Will need to find a good (affordable) paper shop...
bluesmoke said:
Not the plotters fault but the software... we used a 650C PS (Postscript) in a poster plotting service and got outstanding results... keep an eye out for a (set?) Postscript SIMM -- it will transform the plotter (also helps if you have a Mac to drive it)
My wife sells sweing patterns.... pass this URL on, may get you some brownie points http://www.planetsofta.com/patkat/ (patterns on eBay URL on the bottom of each page too)
dave
It's always been used as a postscript printer. I had switched it over to HPGL because I didn't want to figure out how to get postscript drivers working on my home computer.
If you send images too big for the 36MB internal memory, the printing preferences advanced tab has a setting where you can get the driver to process documents in computer memory.
If you send images too big for the 36MB internal memory, the printing preferences advanced tab has a setting where you can get the driver to process documents in computer memory.
bluesmoke said:
We just connected via ethernet and used the built-in postscript driver. You will need to downlaod the ppd (Postscript Printer Description) from HP & select it in the postscript driver.
Way easy to use -- and better -- than trying to print in HPGL (at least on a mac). If you are using a clumsy program like AutoCad thou ...
dave
...gotta look in the manual to find the switch to postscript setting... flipflipflip~
Found a built in XP driver that shows up as "HP DesignJet 650C v2013.109"... in the menus it then has boxes for postscript functions (PS/EPS output/error handler...) so I'm thinking that one is it. HP doesn't have listed a 650c 'PS driver' except for 98... so I'm thinking I'm on the right track. Will look for the PPD...
The regular driver from HP (that they seem to mainly list as for AutoCAD, but works best for everything), has the spool from computer function. The XP PS driver doesn't.
Anyway, got lots of playing around to do. Did print full 24x36 test posters using both the XP and HP HPGL drivers. Had to spool from the computer for one of them. Everything went smoothly, and looked pretty good. The HP drivers seem to be better, but there is no toggle between B&W and Colour settings (like in the XP version). Both only list resolution as 300DPI (no 600 for B&W)...
Just want to try the postscript functions, seeing if they give better B&W line output. Heard about shareware called ghostscript too, will see if it has anything useful to offer.
Happy my fingers are returning to their pinkness. Can bite my nails again.
Found a built in XP driver that shows up as "HP DesignJet 650C v2013.109"... in the menus it then has boxes for postscript functions (PS/EPS output/error handler...) so I'm thinking that one is it. HP doesn't have listed a 650c 'PS driver' except for 98... so I'm thinking I'm on the right track. Will look for the PPD...
The regular driver from HP (that they seem to mainly list as for AutoCAD, but works best for everything), has the spool from computer function. The XP PS driver doesn't.
Anyway, got lots of playing around to do. Did print full 24x36 test posters using both the XP and HP HPGL drivers. Had to spool from the computer for one of them. Everything went smoothly, and looked pretty good. The HP drivers seem to be better, but there is no toggle between B&W and Colour settings (like in the XP version). Both only list resolution as 300DPI (no 600 for B&W)...
Just want to try the postscript functions, seeing if they give better B&W line output. Heard about shareware called ghostscript too, will see if it has anything useful to offer.
Happy my fingers are returning to their pinkness. Can bite my nails again.
bluesmoke said:
That number seems right (it was 12 years ago we had the 650C PS)
The "LaserWriter/Postscript" driver is built into all OSes of recent note, Windows or Macintosh (and probably Linux). A PPD is a postscript text file that defines features of the specific Postscript printer. I've not seen a LaserWriter driver with the option of turning the spooler on.
It is also possible to hack the PPD with any text editor. I did that to the allow some weird paper sizes.
dave
Will try some real printin' this week...
Any advice on good places to get affordable paper rolls cheap in Toronto or Canada? The xerox roll I'm using seems quite good, I see Canon and HP have standard inkjet bond rolls (24"x150', $23. for canon at Vistek, but shows up as special order only), any experience with these? Grand & Toy is always overpriced. Or is it better to buy coated stock (doubling the price at least)...
Any advice on good places to get affordable paper rolls cheap in Toronto or Canada? The xerox roll I'm using seems quite good, I see Canon and HP have standard inkjet bond rolls (24"x150', $23. for canon at Vistek, but shows up as special order only), any experience with these? Grand & Toy is always overpriced. Or is it better to buy coated stock (doubling the price at least)...
You buy what you need for the job. Vellum for drawings, presentation bond for posters, and there is cheap stuff (can't remember the name) like cheap vellum for doing proofs. You want to make sure you get inkjet paper (pretty much everything these days) because there is a catalyst in the paper that helps dry the ink. Note that many of these papers have a print side & a non-print side.
Last place i bought paper from was Azo blueprint.
dave
Last place i bought paper from was Azo blueprint.
dave
I use paper like the last Dave was mentioning (cheap vellum)
Its Oce Ink Jet Bond 86-0016.
Translucent Bond 16lb.
The 16lb thickness roll is the right diameter for a 300' roll to fit well in my machine and its pretty cheap.
I use a blueline printer to make copies (!) and the Transbond is translucent enough to make copies and also opaque enough to use for most meetings, etc.
This way I avoid switching the rolls and the results are great. Keep in mind I pretty much exclusively use the plotter for drafting output.
Its Oce Ink Jet Bond 86-0016.
Translucent Bond 16lb.
The 16lb thickness roll is the right diameter for a 300' roll to fit well in my machine and its pretty cheap.
I use a blueline printer to make copies (!) and the Transbond is translucent enough to make copies and also opaque enough to use for most meetings, etc.
This way I avoid switching the rolls and the results are great. Keep in mind I pretty much exclusively use the plotter for drafting output.
Just trying to distinguish the differences in quality in order to get a good multipurpose output.
The Xerox roll I'm using is quite good for drafting as well as colour posters, and is just described as inkjet bond. Some generic 8.5x11 multipurpose inkjet bond I have bleeds like crazy. Epson photo quality inket paper is quite sharp (finished side only)... So it makes me think a coated bond is best. Just don't feel like paying $120 bucks for the top end graphics material, when rarely getting output over 300dpi. Saw some options in the $30 range....
HP seems to make a line of more affordable coated stock. Will make some calls to confirm prices. The transbond would be handy for all the everyday test drafts.
Going to try looking downtown tomorrow to see what's available.
--------
Spent the last of my food money to max out the memory (what the heck! but it's dead cheap). Survival food budget is gone...
Did a small test print with the XP-PS driver, seems to work with good results. Got an odd PS timeout error, where it spooled a bunch of blank pages. but may have fixed it with a different setting. Will do a mid-sized print or two tomorrow.
Lotsa fun...
The Xerox roll I'm using is quite good for drafting as well as colour posters, and is just described as inkjet bond. Some generic 8.5x11 multipurpose inkjet bond I have bleeds like crazy. Epson photo quality inket paper is quite sharp (finished side only)... So it makes me think a coated bond is best. Just don't feel like paying $120 bucks for the top end graphics material, when rarely getting output over 300dpi. Saw some options in the $30 range....
HP seems to make a line of more affordable coated stock. Will make some calls to confirm prices. The transbond would be handy for all the everyday test drafts.
Going to try looking downtown tomorrow to see what's available.
--------
Spent the last of my food money to max out the memory (what the heck! but it's dead cheap). Survival food budget is gone...
Did a small test print with the XP-PS driver, seems to work with good results. Got an odd PS timeout error, where it spooled a bunch of blank pages. but may have fixed it with a different setting. Will do a mid-sized print or two tomorrow.
Lotsa fun...
Anyone wanna trade me a 36" plotter?... 
I lucked out today. Went downtown to order some paper today... a 24" roll of HP C1860A (plain bond) and C6019B (coated).... Well whadaya know, someone never picked up their order of C6020B (two 36" rolls coated stock) so it was marked down... reg price $54.~, sale $19.99 per roll. The only big pain will be to have to cut the stuff into Archi-D sheets...
Anyway, ends up being the quantity of 3 rolls of HQ paper, for the price of one. Yay!
I'd be willing to trade to someone locally (Toronto) for new 24" coated rolls... Just to save on the sheet cutting inconvenience.
I ordered a roll of the regular bond as well, just to see what it is like, and for the convenience of roll feed. Now I have enough paper to cover a house. Hope the printer holds up...
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One other odd thing I've noticed is that printing at 300dpi colour, seems to even be sharper than 600B&W... I'll do some more tests, but it looks like when printing text and lines, it does a double-strike kind of effect. I'll post an image if anyone wants to see... It may just be some other lost setting I haven't found yet. Large colour does POP! I've had varying results with B&W... sometimes lines get dithered (simulating colour shading), sometimes just fine. Will try more plotting to postscript, letting the printer figure the max resoultion.
Budget completely gone... Now eating plain macaroni and tapwater...
I lucked out today. Went downtown to order some paper today... a 24" roll of HP C1860A (plain bond) and C6019B (coated).... Well whadaya know, someone never picked up their order of C6020B (two 36" rolls coated stock) so it was marked down... reg price $54.~, sale $19.99 per roll. The only big pain will be to have to cut the stuff into Archi-D sheets...
Anyway, ends up being the quantity of 3 rolls of HQ paper, for the price of one. Yay!
I'd be willing to trade to someone locally (Toronto) for new 24" coated rolls... Just to save on the sheet cutting inconvenience.
I ordered a roll of the regular bond as well, just to see what it is like, and for the convenience of roll feed. Now I have enough paper to cover a house. Hope the printer holds up...
--------
One other odd thing I've noticed is that printing at 300dpi colour, seems to even be sharper than 600B&W... I'll do some more tests, but it looks like when printing text and lines, it does a double-strike kind of effect. I'll post an image if anyone wants to see... It may just be some other lost setting I haven't found yet. Large colour does POP! I've had varying results with B&W... sometimes lines get dithered (simulating colour shading), sometimes just fine. Will try more plotting to postscript, letting the printer figure the max resoultion.
Budget completely gone... Now eating plain macaroni and tapwater...
Was just thinking of cutting 24" pages by hand when needed (or do a whole batch if I get into the swing of things). No waste. instant 24x36!
The saw idea isn't too bad. May have to see if my dad had a good finishing blade for his table saw.... would need to find a way to test it first... don't want to blow a good roll getting a fuzzy edge. Feels like there is a big risk for making a mess though. I've seen cores that are only on the ends sometimes...
Will set up a big table, a piece of scrap laminate from an ancient speaker project, and a knife. BUT will wait to see if I actually get an offer for a trade.... fingers crossed. If not, happy just the same.
The saw idea isn't too bad. May have to see if my dad had a good finishing blade for his table saw.... would need to find a way to test it first... don't want to blow a good roll getting a fuzzy edge. Feels like there is a big risk for making a mess though. I've seen cores that are only on the ends sometimes...
Will set up a big table, a piece of scrap laminate from an ancient speaker project, and a knife. BUT will wait to see if I actually get an offer for a trade.... fingers crossed. If not, happy just the same.
Ok, just thought that I would pass my experience with HP on to you guy's I used to have a HPdesignJet750 large format printer to take care of, at my job. (I am working as a reprotechnician) I have the responsibility to get around 500 m2 worth of technical drawings out to the users, every day Working at a big shipyard, its "print on demand" So you can go figure what a delay would mean???
Luckily enough I have a large capacity B/W printer at hand, since the bulk is B/W drawings.
Okay here goes the fact's (and I hope HP reads this!!)
Designjet failure on day 1!! Calling HP but noone answers!!!
Day two, calling again and no answer,, and so on!!
On day seven I managed to get someone on the phone! I wouldnt like to repeat what the guy said, but he was pretty bad!
He said that it was all my fault! Hu-hu... I have to admit that I asked him if he thought that a guy with a 750DJ was a complete idiot??? This is not a consumer printer after all?? After that, the silence was present!! I tried to call them a few times with no luck!! Considering that we in fact did sign a 24 hours service contract, costing a lot of money and received nothing in return,I am amazed!!!! On my job, I am done with HP, they are too unreliable. It took 21 days before the printer was working, and we have a 24 hours signed service contract!!! I am so done with HP!
Steen
I used to have a HPdesignJet750 large format printer to take care of, at my job. (I am working as a reprotechnician) I have the responsibility to get around 500 m2 worth of technical drawings out to the users, every day Working at a big shipyard, its "print on demand" So you can go figure what a delay would mean???Luckily enough I have a large capacity B/W printer at hand, since the bulk is B/W drawings.
Okay here goes the fact's (and I hope HP reads this!!)
Designjet failure on day 1!! Calling HP but noone answers!!!
Day two, calling again and no answer,, and so on!!
On day seven I managed to get someone on the phone! I wouldnt like to repeat what the guy said, but he was pretty bad!
He said that it was all my fault! Hu-hu... I have to admit that I asked him if he thought that a guy with a 750DJ was a complete idiot??? This is not a consumer printer after all?? After that, the silence was present!! I tried to call them a few times with no luck!! Considering that we in fact did sign a 24 hours service contract, costing a lot of money and received nothing in return,I am amazed!!!! On my job, I am done with HP, they are too unreliable. It took 21 days before the printer was working, and we have a 24 hours signed service contract!!! I am so done with HP!
Steen
not a good day (life imitating a worse life)
Took a few days to rest, got great deals on paper, picked up my 24" bond roll on order, got 2 extra packs of black ink, extra memory is on the way, even managed to cut my oversized rolls with reasonable success...
I turn the printer, do some test prints to clean the heads, after that I get barely a print out of the thing, I now get "Turn power off, check pen path"...
I do it, look around, nothing, try again, same thing happens on power up. Then look, plug in, and on and on. The carriage tracks fine across the rails, but when it hits the cutter, it hits it a few times, then gives up with the same error message. Only on one odd occasion did it load paper, then got the same message...
(seriously!)
Never touched anything critical (stayed far away from anything electronic), can't see any sensors nearby that need to be tripped, even threw on the new belt (reading that an old belt can cause similar messages); nothing (except the initializing carriage run is nice and quiet now.
Not sure what to do now. Quite depressed... blew the last of my funds on supplies, ....shouldn't have made my login here as bluesmoke... (aaa, the irony)
On a horridly good note, I haven't completed admissions for my archictecture classes yet, now that I can't draft anything... unless it's 8 1/2 by 11...
Open to any ideas or emotional support...
Took a few days to rest, got great deals on paper, picked up my 24" bond roll on order, got 2 extra packs of black ink, extra memory is on the way, even managed to cut my oversized rolls with reasonable success...
I turn the printer, do some test prints to clean the heads, after that I get barely a print out of the thing, I now get "Turn power off, check pen path"...
I do it, look around, nothing, try again, same thing happens on power up. Then look, plug in, and on and on. The carriage tracks fine across the rails, but when it hits the cutter, it hits it a few times, then gives up with the same error message. Only on one odd occasion did it load paper, then got the same message...
(seriously!)Never touched anything critical (stayed far away from anything electronic), can't see any sensors nearby that need to be tripped, even threw on the new belt (reading that an old belt can cause similar messages); nothing (except the initializing carriage run is nice and quiet now.
Not sure what to do now. Quite depressed... blew the last of my funds on supplies, ....shouldn't have made my login here as bluesmoke... (aaa, the irony)
On a horridly good note, I haven't completed admissions for my archictecture classes yet, now that I can't draft anything... unless it's 8 1/2 by 11...
Open to any ideas or emotional support...
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